Russian Figure Skater tests positive for drugs - delays ceremony for team medals

LeafOnTheWind

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16,381
Nobody had a problem with Alyssa Liu doing all those harder jumps at a very young age? This board was full of people moaning about how unwise it was. What revisionist history.
I've had lots of problems with the direction womens skating was moving for the last 10 years. I had a lot of problems with Alyssa Liu. In fact I got a lot of pissy responses and eyerolls for being extremely unhappy that a kid that young with very poor jump technique was allowed to win Nationals because of the hype and the story. I have lots of problems with Isabeau Levito at the moment too. In fact I stated that she exemplifies everything wrong in women's skating today.

So for the record mine isn't the revisionist history here. It isn't just the jumps at a young age. It's the crappy jump technique of whipping them around at any cost (usually the human body) when they inevitably start to grow up. It prevents me from enjoying anything good these kids have to offer when I normally would have enjoyed their skating.

As Rfisher pointed out the Russian girls are injured. Let's pretend that's the only reason they aren't skating as well this season. Here's my question. If everyone loves these girls so much why are you cheering higher risk of injury and faster exits out of competitive skating?
 
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Andora

Skating season ends as baseball season begins
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The idea that it's just injuries that are affecting a "small number" of Russian skaters currently competing on the bullshit GP over there? Pull my other leg. Some fans of these Russian skaters will pretzel themselves any which way, I guess.

Just a note on TSL and what Dave actually said regarding Sergei Grinkov. He didn't just bring up a (completely valid) question of past Russian athletes and doping. He was told that the Russian doctor in charge of the "pharmacological approach" in the '90s is who oversees that for the Russian junior team today. He also mentioned that was the "last doctor who evaluated Sergei Grinkov." And with the amount of Rigorous testing of Soviet/former Soviet athletes, perhaps abnormalities in Grinkov's heart should/could have been caught.

I can't speak to the truth of any of that, right down to whether it was medically feasible to prevent Grinkov's heart attack. But Dave Lease did have a slightly more direct reason to bring G&G into this, and it wasn't nearly as strictly salacious as one would think.

Discussion starts here for anyone interested, though I respect people don't want to give TSL views.
 

clairecloutier

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LeafOnTheWind

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The Swiss law firm that represented Valieva in her first CAS hearing will not represent her this time:


According to the article, this decision is likely due to the Swiss government's participation in sanctions against Russia.
I wonder if they are getting any backlash at all for representing Russia's ongoing doping problem.

I used to say I would be happy to see figure skating get kicked out of the Olympics based on a number of failures to protect athletes but I'm changing my mind. The sport apparently sees the most changes made once they air their dirty laundry on the biggest stage.
 

DreamSkates

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3,188
I wonder if they are getting any backlash at all for representing Russia's ongoing doping problem.

I used to say I would be happy to see figure skating get kicked out of the Olympics based on a number of failures to protect athletes but I'm changing my mind. The sport apparently sees the most changes made once they air their dirty laundry on the biggest stage.
Well, that is the hope and expectation that there is real change by holding skaters and their coaching teams accountable. Ban them from competitions for several years. Make the point that doping isn’t acceptable and will not be tolerated by anyone and that includes ALL countries no Mayer how much money they contribute.
 

barbk

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7,646
I wonder if they are getting any backlash at all for representing Russia's ongoing doping problem.

I used to say I would be happy to see figure skating get kicked out of the Olympics based on a number of failures to protect athletes but I'm changing my mind. The sport apparently sees the most changes made once they air their dirty laundry on the biggest stage.
I'm pretty hesitant to blame lawyers for defending clients. That's their job. I'm no fan of Valieva from the doping perspective, but she still deserves legal representation.
 

Karen-W

Neither sexy nor sultry, but loving life!
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I'm pretty hesitant to blame lawyers for defending clients. That's their job. I'm no fan of Valieva from the doping perspective, but she still deserves legal representation.
She will still have legal representation. It just won't be a Swiss firm that specializes in international sports law, but instead a Russian legal team.
 

airgelaal

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Do you know what is the most popular opinion about doping in russia? Everyone uses doping, but only russians are caught. This opinion has been around for decades. And every year this opinion sounds louder and louder. Therefore, any russian in whose tests doping was found is a real victim. It is not the presence of doping itself that is bad, but the fact that it was found. In the case of Valieva, the main culprit is the laboratory. The bad thing is not that they found doping, but that they reported it late.
And these are not the opinions of the fans, everyone is talking about it. I do not understand how in such a society one can talk about some real fight against doping.
 

coppertop1

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Do you know what is the most popular opinion about doping in russia? Everyone uses doping, but only russians are caught. This opinion has been around for decades. And every year this opinion sounds louder and louder. Therefore, any russian in whose tests doping was found is a real victim. It is not the presence of doping itself that is bad, but the fact that it was found. In the case of Valieva, the main culprit is the laboratory. The bad thing is not that they found doping, but that they reported it late.
And these are not the opinions of the fans, everyone is talking about it. I do not understand how in such a society one can talk about some real fight against doping.
My reaction to this logic is the age old "If everyone was jumping off a cliff, to would you jump to?". The constant gaslighting and playing the victim really shows why they shouldn't be allowed to compete. There's no accountability. No willingness to change.
 

Vagabond

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My reaction to this logic is the age old "If everyone was jumping off a cliff, to would you jump to?". The constant gaslighting and playing the victim really shows why they shouldn't be allowed to compete. There's no accountability. No willingness to change.
Mine is that the people who believe this perceive their country to be incompetent and take pride in that incompetence. 🤷‍♂️
 

coppertop1

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Mine is that the people who believe this perceive their country to be incompetent and take pride in that incompetence. 🤷‍♂️
I think that, too. I think "You're the only ones who get caught? Are you saying you're bad at cheating?" Then they try to point to other examples which isn't cheating, the athlete has a TUE for a medication they do need.
 
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LeafOnTheWind

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Let me try this again. I know the law firm quit representing Russian athletes because of sanctions. I know everyone deserves a defense attorney. I still wonder if they get any blowback for defending the Russian doping for a long, long time now.

In addition to participating in the hearings in the Valieva case in Beijing, as a result of which she was allowed to participate in the individual competitions, this firm previously represented RUSADA in the case against WADA, as well as in the appeal against the IOC decision on the lifelong suspension of a number of Russian athletes from participating in the Olympics.

Also as an aside, are their arguments just that good or are the Olympic games just that corrupt that Russia and their lawyers keep getting away with a whole lot of shit?
 

Primorskaya

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Let me try this again. I know the law firm quit representing Russian athletes because of sanctions. I know everyone deserves a defense attorney. I still wonder if they get any blowback for defending the Russian doping for a long, long time now.



Also as an aside, are their arguments just that good or are the Olympic games just that corrupt that Russia and their lawyers keep getting away with a whole lot of shit?
Oh most definitely the latter, but I think you knew that ;) Seriously at this stage I just don't want to watch anymore, the OG's issues go beyond just Russian doping. Maybe audience figures crashing to the ground is what's needed for things to change.
 

her grace

Team Guignard/Fabbri
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Let me try this again. I know the law firm quit representing Russian athletes because of sanctions. I know everyone deserves a defense attorney. I still wonder if they get any blowback for defending the Russian doping for a long, long time now.



Also as an aside, are their arguments just that good or are the Olympic games just that corrupt that Russia and their lawyers keep getting away with a whole lot of shit?
No one wants to fall out of a window.
 

SkateGuard

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Happy December everyone!

🎅

Santa baby, slip a CAS decision under the tree, for me
We've been waiting all year
Santa baby, hurry, make a ruling tonight

Santa baby, self-investigation simply won't do
Forbid Eteri too
I'll wait up for you dear
Santa baby, hurry, make a ruling tonight

Think of the tests you may have missed
Think of the team medals - we must insist
Next year really won't be as good
Please check off my Christmas list

Come and trim my Christmas tree
With a ban until 2053
We really do believe in you
and hope you listen to this plea
Badoopydoo

Santa baby, forgot to mention a real Olympic ban
We'd be a fan
Santa baby, hurry, make a ruling tonight

Santa baby, we want them caught and really that's not a lot
We've been waiting all year
Santa baby, hurry make a ruling tonight
 

Rob

Beach Bum
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15,120
Everyone has skipped over the part about whether the ostensible struggles of Russian skaters this season are due to a lack of doping. Do people accept Lease's speculation on this, or do they just not care?
Do we know they aren’t doping? Are they testing and revealing results even though they aren’t in international competition? I haven’t heard what they are doing in that regard, but if they don’t think what they are doing is wrong, I’d think it would be business as usual. And for the top girls, there’s almost always a bit of a let down after an Olympics and time off for personal appearances. Takes time to ramp up and what is the motivation anyway if they aren’t going to Worlds.
 

Vagabond

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Takes time to ramp up and what is the motivation anyway if they aren’t going to Worlds.
Motivation for whom? As far as I know, there is no evidence that Valieva knew that she was being doped.

Be that as it may, there is money to be made from doing well in domestic competition and participating in the Channel One Cup.
 

barbk

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7,646
Motivation for whom? As far as I know, there is no evidence that Valieva knew that she was being doped.

Be that as it may, there is money to be made from doing well in domestic competition and participating in the Channel One Cup.
Here, drink this (take this pill, have this injection) should have raised questions by Valieva. I'm not buying the notion that she was an unwitting victim.
 

overedge

Mayor of Carrot City
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33,871
Here, drink this (take this pill, have this injection) should have raised questions by Valieva. I'm not buying the notion that she was an unwitting victim.

Even if she did have suspicions, I seriously doubt that she would feel she could say "no" to a very powerful coach and a very powerful federation. Especially one that churns out baby prodigies and then tosses them aside as soon as they can't perform at the level they used to.
 

Wyliefan

Slow, dull, and G-rated
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I cannot believe what I read... and do not want to believe.
That doesn't make any sense. They'll be reinstated because they've supposedly disavowed doping (yeah, right), but they'll still be banned because of the invasion? How can you be reinstated and banned at the same time? :huh: It's like Schrodinger's ban.
 

Karen-W

Neither sexy nor sultry, but loving life!
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That doesn't make any sense. They'll be reinstated because they've supposedly disavowed doping (yeah, right), but they'll still be banned because of the invasion? How can you be reinstated and banned at the same time? :huh: It's like Schrodinger's ban.
Well, yes, it makes perfectly good sense. They are banned for two reasons: 1) the doping violations, and 2) the invasion of Ukraine. So, it is possible for one of the reasons for banning to resolve itself while the other remains unresolved. The Russian Athletics Federation (oversees their track & field disciplines) could have, indeed, made good progress toward changing the culture within their sports toward doping, as well as instituted the necessary measures required to lift the ban, and thus merit reinstatement on those grounds. That, in and of itself, is a completely separate issue from their government's invasion of Ukraine, and if the doping-related ban were lifted it would put RusAF in the same boat as the rest of their sports feds who are banned from international competitions due to the war.

As it is, the headline is a bit clickbait-y since in the body of the article, it makes it clear that there are still points RusAF needs to implement in order to lift the doping-related ban. So, who really knows what is going to happen with RusAF.
 

Lilia A

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3,481
taz'smum posted that Tiffany was still subject to random tests, and she's not even competing now, so there's at least some drug testing being done for Russian athletes.
I think they're still required to test people as long as they haven't officially retired. Simone Biles recently complained on Twitter about getting frequent visits from Usada despite not currently competing. People replied commenting that she has to either file paperwork, whatever that is, to officially retire or wait until one year after her latest competition before she can be removed from the testing pool. I don't know if Rusada has the same rules but that's what a lot of people were commenting under Simone's tweet.
 

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