Racial Profiling & Related Matters (Non-Lethal Version)

demetriosj

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Politicians who reacted hadn't seen the interview yet though and had probably made their remarks (mostly) based on what was available in the news and that included statements by law enforcement.
But, you didn't have to see the interview to see all the holes in Smollett's story from day one. Of course the police couldn't say publicly that it was BS from the start.
 

ballettmaus

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But, you didn't have to see the interview to see all the holes in Smollett's story from day one. Of course the police couldn't say publicly that it was BS from the start.
They could have said they're investigating all possibilities though. As far as I know, they said they were investigating as a possible hate crime. That's pretty definite.
 

ballettmaus

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Ok, possible does not mean definite.
I meant definite in regards to not considering the possibility that the attack might have been faked. I would hope/expect them to keep it more general if they consider a fake attack a possibility.
 

demetriosj

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I meant definite in regards to not considering the possibility that the attack might have been faked. I would hope/expect them to keep it more general if they consider a fake attack a possibility.
Some people were upset that the words "possible" or "alleged" were used. They were so sure this was a real hate crime because it fit their narrative. (Evil, racist Trump supporters must be guilty of this crime.) Even if the police thought Smollet's story was fake from the start, they could not state that publicly.
 

Artistic Skaters

Drawing Figures
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Even if the police thought Smollet's story was fake from the start, they could not state that publicly.
They certainly could have. There are examples of it being handled both ways, for the right & wrong reasons. For example, look at that "Gone Girl" case in CA, when the boyfriend was blindfolded & drugged while the woman was kidnapped. The police spoke out without completing an investigation & not only said it was all a hoax, but attacked the woman & the man with all kinds of defamatory comments & even threatened them with arrest. It later turned out it was not hoax. I believe the police have yet to apologize for that one & only made a statement justifying why they pursued their "theory".

This case seems more along the lines of the gay customer who said Whole Foods let their employees write hateful messages on cakes. The police investigated it, although IIRC it was really Whole Foods who did the real research. Later it was announced it was a hoax when the man finally admitted he made up the whole story.

In this case, Smollet hasn't admitted it yet (his latest statement says the opposite), so speculating about the outcome is still premature. If when all is said & done, it turns out he definitely made it up, I agree with VIETgrlTerifa he ought to be held completely accountable. Like she noted, real attacks & verbal assaults are on the increase. Here is one reported today - the woman is swearing & screaming racist things at a US citizen & calling him a rapist because he has an accent & dared to speak to someone in Spanish.

*** White customer at Mexican restaurant swears at Spanish-speaking manager :
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/white-customer-mexican-restaurant-swears-spanish-speaking-manager-n973191

Are we jumping on a liberal media bias bandwagon when we :rolleyes: at how often we have to watch this happen? Her own dinner companion was telling her she was being racist & out of line, & I can't even begin to count how many times I've come across such people over the years before these things were ever recorded. Most people of color are not going to be fans of "possible" & "alleged" because of their own personal experiences, even when there's a hoax 1 out of 100/500/1000 times.
 
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ballettmaus

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Some people were upset that the words "possible" or "alleged" were used. They were so sure this was a real hate crime because it fit their narrative. (Evil, racist Trump supporters must be guilty of this crime.) Even if the police thought Smollet's story was fake from the start, they could not state that publicly.
Maybe they could have, maybe they couldn't have. But they could have kept their statement more general, not includes the possible hate crime and said something along the lines of investigating all possibilities.

By the way, you accused those who made statements based on official police statements of jumping to conclusions but you're already treating the fake attack as a fact even if it hasn't been proven. It's being investigated just like the possibility of a hate crime was investigated.
 

demetriosj

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Maybe they could have, maybe they couldn't have. But they could have kept their statement more general, not includes the possible hate crime and said something along the lines of investigating all possibilities.

By the way, you accused those who made statements based on official police statements of jumping to conclusions but you're already treating the fake attack as a fact even if it hasn't been proven. It's being investigated just like the possibility of a hate crime was investigated.
Give it a few hours. I'm sure the police want to dot their i's and cross their t's in regards to this case.
 

MacMadame

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Something smells about the Smollet case and I don't mean his testimony. We have two people who are identified as committing a crime, equipment from the crime is found in their apartment and they have every incentive to lie to get out of being punished for said crime. Yet people (including possibly the police?) are taking their word for it that Smollet orchestrated the attack.

Yes, I know one of the people appeared as an extra in Empire. Why is that evidence that Smollet faked the crime instead of evidence that these guys picked Smollet as their victim because they knew who he was? There is no evidence that these guys and Smollet were buddy-buddy. There is no evidence that Smollet bought the rope (the receipt for it was found in the accused perpetrators apartment, not in Smollet's. Etc. Etc.
 

VGThuy

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I think it's interesting to note the type of people who would automatically see a case like this and think it's a hoax or look at it skeptically and those who treat these types of reports without the skepticism because most people when they hear any sort of criminal report is NOT to doubt it as a first instinct AND because they themselves are all too familiar with similar cases happening all of the time that certain other people don't pay attention to because it's not on their radar.

Anyway, the one who is talking about an "agenda" with people being all too eager to believe this story, even if this story has not been deemed a total orchestrated attack yet, seems to have an agenda of their own as well and is being driven by it.

Since this is a racial profiling and bias thread, why don't we get your thoughts on the statistics regarding the rise of hate crimes and let's not beat around the bush but talk about Trump's actual language verbatim and the types of people who seem to be most emboldened by his rhetoric. Even if this ONE particular case is fake, it doesn't make any of the other stats go away or make what Trump and many of his supporters have said against racial and other minorities any less vitriolic.
 

demetriosj

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Something smells about the Smollet case and I don't mean his testimony. We have two people who are identified as committing a crime, equipment from the crime is found in their apartment and they have every incentive to lie to get out of being punished for said crime. Yet people (including possibly the police?) are taking their word for it that Smollet orchestrated the attack.

Yes, I know one of the people appeared as an extra in Empire. Why is that evidence that Smollet faked the crime instead of evidence that these guys picked Smollet as their victim because they knew who he was? There is no evidence that these guys and Smollet were buddy-buddy. There is no evidence that Smollet bought the rope (the receipt for it was found in the accused perpetrators apartment, not in Smollet's. Etc. Etc.
His entire account of that night smells. Why would these 2 Nigerian men yell, "This is MAGA country", as they were allegedly attacking Smollett? and didn't he initially say his attackers were two white men? Face it, Smollett hates Trump and his "white robed followers", his words, not mine, and this intense hatred caused him to make up this ridiculous story to try to make Trump and anyone who supports him look like evil, hate-filled racists. It also gave him a lot of attention.
 
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Tony Wheeler

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Something smells about the Smollet case and I don't mean his testimony. We have two people who are identified as committing a crime, equipment from the crime is found in their apartment and they have every incentive to lie to get out of being punished for said crime. Yet people (including possibly the police?) are taking their word for it that Smollet orchestrated the attack.

Yes, I know one of the people appeared as an extra in Empire. Why is that evidence that Smollet faked the crime instead of evidence that these guys picked Smollet as their victim because they knew who he was? There is no evidence that these guys and Smollet were buddy-buddy. There is no evidence that Smollet bought the rope (the receipt for it was found in the accused perpetrators apartment, not in Smollet's. Etc. Etc.
I thought it’s been established he called one of them prior to the attack— I’m sure they turned over their own phone records and bank records quickly. They also said he wanted to orchestrate it earlier than the day it happened- maybe there are more records that back that. He is following one or both on Instagram and they work out together/even work as his trainer.

They aren’t randoms. But if we are going again down this road, then WHY would he go on TV and say ‘YES these are definitely the attackers’? Because the photos were from the back, but somewhere a camera picked up more and led to finding them. Smollett and co. obviously didn’t plan on that.

Another thing that rubs me the wrong way is Smollett saying from the beginning that his phone records had other celebrities and messages with his partner. What would the police want with any of that? It’s a terribly lame excuse.
 
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Artistic Skaters

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Haven't read any written reports yet, but our local news just reported Smollett's lawyers are making some kind of deal. I didn't hear it all, but treatment for alcohol was mentioned. I guess there will be written updates available later this evening.

ETA: Recent update from CNN:
"Empire" actor Jussie Smollett has been "officially classified" as a suspect in a criminal investigation for allegedly filling a false police report, according to a tweet from Chicago police communications Officer Anthony Guglielmi.

The tweet goes on to say this is a Class 4 felony and detectives are currently presenting evidence before a Cook County grand jury.
 
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D

Deleted member 53443

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This is hilariously embarrassing.

But seriously, you having nothing else to do than staging fake attacks and stealing police work from worthy victims. Talk about arrogant entitlement.
 

ballettmaus

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Why would these 2 Nigerian men yell, "This is MAGA country",
How this case has turned out aside, there are immigrants who are Trump supporters because they don't like that they've gone through the process of becoming a legal immigrant while they think others get to cut corners. So, that in itself is not evidence that Smollet lied or the attack is staged.

Would my first thought have been that the attackers are likely white if someone had told me that they yelled it? Yes. Do I think that the attackers have to be white/non-immigrants because they yelled it? No.
 

Fan123

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This guy is crazy, just got indicted for making a false report. Store surveillance shows the 2 guys bought the rope, instructed by that scumbag. A real sad story all around.
 

WillyElliot

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Anyone want to guess how quickly he comes out and says he is bipolar or suffers from borderline personality disorder, and that he needs treatment, and not jail time?
 

Tony Wheeler

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Anyone want to guess how quickly he comes out and says he is bipolar or suffers from borderline personality disorder, and that he needs treatment, and not jail time?
Likely. I see a few people already saying in comments that ‘he’s sick’ or ‘he needs help’— but my interpretation is that it’s just someone that was trying to be witty and garner more attention to himself, but it was obviously ill-planned.

I don’t think many other people will buy into any of that. If he thinks this is already rough, he better hope the investigation into the initial letter that was sent turns up showing he had no involvement.
 

Japanfan

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They could have said they're investigating all possibilities though. As far as I know, they said they were investigating as a possible hate crime. That's pretty definite.
Well, what kind of idiot would fake such a thing?

Wait. . .this year's nominee for the gold medalist at the Darwin Awards.
 

Fan123

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At the press conference this morning, the police said salary was the motive. Letter was also done by Jussie. Such a scumbag. He took all of us as fools. He's done.
 

VALuvsMKwan

Wandering Goy
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At the press conference this morning, the police said salary was the motive. Letter was also done by Jussie. Such a scumbag. He took all of us as fools. He's done.
Not all of us. Keep your gullibility-sharing to yourself, please. #gaymanwhoknowsBSwhenhereadsit
 

Tony Wheeler

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So, he thought they'd pay him more when he gets attacked? :confused:
He thought he’d be the perfect demonstration of ‘what is wrong with America/Trump’ and then get sympathy from everyone. In turn, people would watch the show in support of him or because they became familiar with him through this, and the ratings would be boosted and he could negotiate a higher pay.
 

ballettmaus

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He thought he’d be the perfect demonstration of ‘what is wrong with America/Trump’ and then get sympathy from everyone. In turn, people would watch the show in support of him or because they became familiar with him through this, and the ratings would be boosted and he could negotiate a higher pay.
O-kay. Yeah, the guy needs help. But not in place of jail time.
 

Artistic Skaters

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A tip from the Jerry Springer Best Practices & Methods manual. He used to pay for prostitutes with checks when he was a city councilman. :lol:

I found the statement from his defense lawyers really lacking but telling. He "enjoys the presumption of innocence" is a terrible way to present information on his behalf. They could have used a hundred other words, but ENJOY considering the circumstances? Nothing about him denying the charges, only that they will put forth his zealous defense. If he did it & continues with the zealous defense rather than quickly working out a deal & confessing to the misdeed, it's going to be bad for everyone. We will have to suffer the constant stream of news updates.

How will he ever pay back the city of Chicago for all of this? Hopefully he has enough assets because they deserve to be reimbursed, but I imagine his career is on a rapid downward trend for opportunities, at least in the near future.
 

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