Racial Profiling & Related Matters (Non-Lethal Version)

demetriosj

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,572
Please explain how they were in danger. I don't understand why people who have everything are so afraid of minorities marching for equal rights.
Why do you need to make a point that you feel these people “have everything” ? Do you think they haven’t earned it somehow? Does this make them racists? Is this a reason to threaten them?

500 protesters broke through an iron gate, the protesters threatened the couple, and threatened to kill their dog. They threatened to burn their house down. They were not just peacefully marching down a street for equal rights as the media is trying to portray.
 

Tony Wheeler

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,336
Why do you need to make a point that you feel these people “have everything” ? Do you think they haven’t earned it somehow? Does this make them racists? Is this a reason to threaten them?
That point went right over your head.

So.. are you racist?
 

Artistic Skaters

Drawing Figures
Messages
7,431
I rarely review reader comments in news articles, facebook, or twitter and won't be reading them anytime soon because they are often irrelevant as well as a big time waster to me. As previously noted, I don't use the label Karen and don't particularly find it helpful. None of this means I agree with the woman's POV (otherwise I would have said I did) but I posted the link because of the previous discussion matter.
 

Tony Wheeler

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,336
I rarely review reader comments in news articles, facebook, or twitter and won't be reading them anytime soon because they are often irrelevant as well as a big time waster to me. As previously noted, I don't use the label Karen and don't particularly find it helpful. None of this means I agree with the woman's POV (otherwise I would have said I did) but I posted the link because of the previous discussion matter.
I agree that comment sections are very much hit or miss, but I think it’s extremely telling that this article has been erased from the CBS News website and the author has also removed all traces of it from her Twitter feed.

I think it’s helpful to see why it came across as tone-deaf, particularly from POC.
 

VGThuy

Well-Known Member
Messages
31,991
So you are saying the couple in St. Louis had no right to defend their home and property because they are white?! Defending your home and family is racist? This is 1984.
I’m saying you only care about this couple because they happen to be white. If they weren’t white and were attacked by a mob of whites (police or not) and even killed by them, you wouldn’t care at all nor would you comment on it in this thread even though this thread is about racism and racial profiling and racist incidents. You may provide a comment if you could find some way to blame them.

By the way, I’m not taking your last sentence of that post seriously and giving you the benefit of the doubt that you only said that as some poor attempt to deflect to some tired rightwing point but if you were serious with that, then you really are clueless and cannot read at all. If you were indeed serious, then there’s no use wasting any time or energy on you, just like the president you love so much. Lost causes with limited comprehension with a lack of coherency. Funny you should mention 1984. You do know Orwell was a democratic Socialist, right?
 

skatingguy

Golden Team
Messages
7,289
Okay I've had it.

White men who are so focused on what white women do are just acting out sexism.

Sexist stereotypes of white woman are now being used by white men to deflect from the intersection of racism and sexism.

Let white women deal with other white women. But goddamn if I'm going to be told what sexism is by men.

@Tony Wheeler this is particularly meant for you. Just stop telling women what to think about sexism.
I hear you, and I will try to do better in the future. At the same time I don't think this phrase - Let white women deal with other white women. - is the sentiment you were trying to communicate, and I think you should consider clarifying or revising it.
 

VALuvsMKwan

Wandering Goy
Messages
6,880
I hear you, and I will try to do better in the future. At the same time I don't think this phrase - Let white women deal with other white women. - is the sentiment you were trying to communicate, and I think you should consider clarifying or revising it.
Mansplaining much?
 

Aussie Willy

Hates both vegemite and peanut butter
Messages
23,086
Matt Gaetz supporting people aiming weapons at unarmed protesters.

Matt Gaetz @mattgaetz

In Joe Biden’s America your job is illegal, you are locked in your home, borders don’t exist, MS-13 lives next door and the police aren’t coming when the mob arrives. This is all of us



I just don't get when everything is being filmed and posted to social media these days why you would do this in the first place. Regardless of your supposed perception of threat, you look like a freakin f*ckwit.
 

skatingguy

Golden Team
Messages
7,289
I just don't get when everything is being filmed and posted to social media these days why you would do this in the first place. Regardless of your supposed perception of threat, you look like a freakin f*ckwit.
I think this goes to the right-wing bubble, and the narrative that has been created for several decades now that the world is in decay, and that it is dangerous. I'm not sure where it was posted now but someone posted the story of the small towns several weeks ago that were preparing for an invasion of ANTIFA coming to destroy their towns, and this is just another example of that story playing out in a different setting. The right-wing media has focused almost exclusively on the violence of the protests and has not shown the vast peaceful demonstrations, so it's not hard to imagine that people who have only been exposed to those images would be scared in the first place. It's also why the narrative that the main stream media ignores the violence is so prevalent because a comparison of the two media groups, where the main stream media is showing a more balanced view of events then looks skewed to an attempt by the left to ignore negative stories. This is also gets into why people like the the McCloskey's live in the neighbourhood that they do, and the history of white flight, and the issue of guns in America, and how private property is more important than people's lives, and then we circle back to the police, and why they were created in the first place, and how those issues still haunt us more than 200 years later.
 

Japanfan

Well-Known Member
Messages
23,188
That article was written by a woman of colour.
Sexist stereotypes of white woman are now being used by white men to deflect from the intersection of racism and sexism.

Let white women deal with other white women. But goddamn if I'm going to be told what sexism is by men.
Divide and conquer. So long as different women are against each other, it deflects from the sexism and oppression that all women are subjected to, in varying extents.
 

VGThuy

Well-Known Member
Messages
31,991
So women of color shouldn’t speak their truths about their experience with white women because women should stay united even though that often plays into white female perspectives being treated as the default view for all women. Honestly, that’s a pretty condescending take, like the women of color in the above articles are just falling into a trap of divide and conquer.

This entire Karen conversation in this thread is really taxing and this Twitter thread explains how I feel though I’m sure it’ll be highly offensive to many here:

 
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DORISPULASKI

Watching submarine races
Messages
11,771
I am afraid we are still in a model where some scared white woman is inadvertently frightened by a random, inoffensive black man, and she calls the police who murder said man. Then we as a group blame the woman, but not the police, who should be smart enough to investigate and ignore the wacko call and let the guy go (an operation they manage very well if any woman is frightened by a white man.)

Heck they manage to do nothing very well even if a woman reports she was assaulted by said white man, and even more likely to do nothing if the reporting woman is black.

This takes us back to the fifties, where if you were a woman, if something bad happened to you, you could expect to be told it was your fault. If a man was involved, nothing would happen to the man. But you were told you were not street- smart, or you wore the wrong clothes, or were in the wrong place, or should not have been out that late, or you behaved some bad way or other, or God forbid drank something.

This is why women did not report things after the fact, and some were in a hyper vigilant state all the time.

Me, I am still frightened of anyone stronger or faster than me, which at my age is anyone older than 6, either sex, any ethnicity

I have never called the police, and now I never would. Their operations following my dad's murder gave me no confidence in their ability.
 

Tony Wheeler

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,336
I am afraid we are still in a model where some scared white woman is inadvertently frightened by a random, inoffensive black man, and she calls the police who murder said man. Then we as a group blame the woman, but not the police, who should be smart enough to investigate and ignore the wacko call and let the guy go (an operation they manage very well if any woman is frightened by a white man.)
Okay, but is the argument still that white people as a whole (yes, both men and women) are afraid of minorities who say and do nothing and are told to get out of the country or to speak our language or to make racial slurs based on looks alone? This is a lot of the behavior that is being exhibited- people sticking their noses in places that they don’t belong, and then only by the fact that they are white do they feel they have the right to say anything. That’s not being afraid. That’s not the police. That’s using what they believe to be power over others.

I also think we have enough cases of ‘it was a black man’ as a police report when it ends up not being the case. Recent example was the Miami woman who said two black men took her autistic child from a Home Depot parking lot, only to later admit she actually murdered him herself. That’s also not a one-off situation.
 

VGThuy

Well-Known Member
Messages
31,991
Thank you for your perspective, Dorispulaski. I do think the complication with these events is this collision of racial and gender issues, which are actually tied together, where it seems advocating for one thing may seem like it's rolling back any advancements on another. It really shouldn't have to be that way.

I said before that I seldom use the term "Karen" outside this forum, and I don't remember using it to call someone that on this forum, but maybe I have and don't remember. I do think there may be shades of misogyny behind it, but I also think a lot of things we do as part of living in this world and this country is based on so many misogynistic structures. I also empathize with those who want to use the term to describe a certain sect of people who never had a term so easily and universally understood before. I acknowledge that the term may unequally apply to white women more than others, but unlike say the N-word or other words that have been used for centuries if not longer, what some are arguing for is that it's not used for the most part to describe all white women nor do people just see one and call her that. It's usually only used after someone acts a certain way (again mostly applied against white women).

When it comes to assault from domestic partner and spouses, women underreport and even when they do report, the criminal justice system ill-serves women. But it has also ill-served black/brown POC, especially men as well. Historically, white women have weaponized police against black/brown men and those cases tend to easily result in a convictions, relatively speaking. Black/brown women haven't been able to weaponize the police in the same manner and many of them will hesitate or not call the police in times of need for a myriad of reasons that include but not limited to past treatment by law enforcement, abuse by authority/institutions, being ill-served, and psychological, emotional, and financial dependencies (add legal status and immigration issues to the mix and it's complicated).

I think instead of painting a broad brush on women of color who use the term as exhibiting internal misogyny or falling for a "divide and conquer" strategy without listening to their perspectives and how they've suffered at the hands of white women. In turn, women of color, like myself, should also not look at things with such harsh perspectives at time and let white women also say their piece. It just gets harder when it seems we're again being silenced. The strong reaction may be a result to a historical silencing in women's rights spaces that seem to be dominated by white, upper or middle-class, cis-gender white women of a certain age who push their perspectives as the ONLY perspective in the fight for women's rights.

I will say that fact that the "Karen" term has dominated THIS thread out of all threads says a lot. One thing it says is how race and gender dynamics play out and the way people react to such things. Another is again, how this term that seems to be unequally applied to white women seems to have dominated the consciousness of this forum and thread in particular and has overshadowed every other topic/event that has been introduced in the past week or so, which goes back to what some women of color are talking about.
 

DORISPULASKI

Watching submarine races
Messages
11,771
Thank you for your perspective, Dorispulaski. I do think the complication with these events is this collision of racial and gender issues, which are actually tied together, where it seems advocating for one thing may seem like it's rolling back any advancements on another. It really shouldn't have to be that way.

I said before that I seldom use the term "Karen" outside this forum, and I don't remember using it to call someone that on this forum, but maybe I have and don't remember. I do think there may be shades of misogyny behind it, but I also think a lot of things we do as part of living in this world and this country is based on so many misogynistic structures. I also empathize with those who want to use the term to describe a certain sect of people who never had a term so easily and universally understood before. I acknowledge that the term may unequally apply to white women more than others, but unlike say the N-word or other words that have been used for centuries if not longer, what some are arguing for is that it's not used for the most part to describe all white women nor do people just see one and call her that. It's usually only used after someone acts a certain way (again mostly applied against white women).

When it comes to assault from domestic partner and spouses, women underreport and even when they do report, the criminal justice system ill-serves women. But it has also ill-served black/brown POC, especially men as well. Historically, white women have weaponized police against black/brown men and those cases tend to easily result in a convictions, relatively speaking. Black/brown women haven't been able to weaponize the police in the same manner and many of them will hesitate or not call the police in times of need for a myriad of reasons that include but not limited to past treatment by law enforcement, abuse by authority/institutions, being ill-served, and psychological, emotional, and financial dependencies (add legal status and immigration issues to the mix and it's complicated).

I think instead of painting a broad brush on women of color who use the term as exhibiting internal misogyny or falling for a "divide and conquer" strategy without listening to their perspectives and how they've suffered at the hands of white women. In turn, women of color, like myself, should also not look at things with such harsh perspectives at time and let white women also say their piece. It just gets harder when it seems we're again being silenced. The strong reaction may be a result to a historical silencing in women's rights spaces that seem to be dominated by white, upper or middle-class, cis-gender white women of a certain age who push their perspectives as the ONLY perspective in the fight for women's rights.

I will say that fact that the "Karen" term has dominated THIS thread out of all threads says a lot. One thing it says is how race and gender dynamics play out and the way people react to such things. Another is again, how this term that seems to be unequally applied to white women seems to have dominated the consciousness of this forum and thread in particular and has overshadowed every other topic/event that has been introduced in the past week or so, which goes back to what some women of color are talking about.
Thank you for the complete reply.

Yes, I think we have more chance of doing better when people say what they really feel, and other people listen, and then say what they feel.

I regard the Karen meme as a distraction in that work, indeed all broad brush labels, which I thoroughly detest


Here is a very ugly, racist story from my town.

The bottom line for me is that the police let these horrible people escape. The police are shifting the blame to the hospital, but they are the ones responsible for arresting these 2 for a hate crime assault, and they didn't do it.

Thank God there is no one to call Karen in this story to muddy it up and distract from the fact that two extreme racists, one male and one female, beat up a black hotel clerk, and the police let them go. And it's an outrage

Meanwhile, thank you for the Twitter thread. It is always best to know what anyone really thinks, but I know I will sometimes fk up anyway, despite trying. I am mentally damaged goods and not wholly safe to know. I apologize for being exhausting. I am trying to improve.
 

VGThuy

Well-Known Member
Messages
31,991
Me too. I do a lot of things wrong myself, and I know I can have a hot-head. As an Asian POC, I often fall bad behavior as well. One thing I'm focusing more on right now is "cleaning up my own house" in a way and calling out unchecked racism from the Vietnamese-American community and the Asian-American community in general. IMO, I think white people on the left in general have made greater strides than Asian-Americans on the left in trying to fight within their communities to educate and be better. Many of us are trying, but it is exhausting, especially with the immigrant community who don't see the hypocrisy of being anti-immigration when the only difference between Vietnamese refugees and the Latin-American ones were the fact that we were welcomed here despite huge disapproval numbers from the American population of allowing us to come here in the 1970s. Now, some of them are trying to paint Biden as this big racist for being against South Vietnamese entry back in the 1970s even though the majority of Americans were that way, and they themselves are treating refugees from Latin American and the Middle East the same way they claim Biden treated South Vietnamese folks. Again, I'm talking generally as the younger, American-born or children of the first American-born generation of Vietnamese-Americans are veering more to the left.

Btw, the incident you linked to in Mystic is incredible! I'm not surprised but it doesn't take way the sting when you read such stories.
 

genevieve

drinky typo pbp, closet hugger (she/her)
Staff member
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36,723
...The strong reaction may be a result to a historical silencing in women's rights spaces that seem to be dominated by white, upper or middle-class, cis-gender white women of a certain age who push their perspectives as the ONLY perspective in the fight for women's rights.

I will say that fact that the "Karen" term has dominated THIS thread out of all threads says a lot. One thing it says is how race and gender dynamics play out and the way people react to such things. Another is again, how this term that seems to be unequally applied to white women seems to have dominated the consciousness of this forum and thread in particular and has overshadowed every other topic/event that has been introduced in the past week or so, which goes back to what some women of color are talking about.
:respec:
 

skatingguy

Golden Team
Messages
7,289
I will say that fact that the "Karen" term has dominated THIS thread out of all threads says a lot. One thing it says is how race and gender dynamics play out and the way people react to such things. Another is again, how this term that seems to be unequally applied to white women seems to have dominated the consciousness of this forum and thread in particular and has overshadowed every other topic/event that has been introduced in the past week or so, which goes back to what some women of color are talking about.
Some of the examples from the past month that has included more violent content has ended up in other threads, because this is the non-lethal thread, and the 'White Power' golfer from the Villages ended up in the Trump thread. I will endeavour to find more balanced content featuring both men & women, and unfortunately the McCloskey's are not the only example of this sort of couple. You know the couple that hates together stays together.
 

MacMadame

Staying at home
Staff member
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34,755
Terry Crews at it again.

terry crews
https://twitter.com/terrycrews
@terrycrews

If you are a child of God, you are my brother and sister. I have family of every race, creed and ideology. We must ensure #blacklivesmatter
doesn’t morph into #blacklivesbetter
I saw this on FB and I can't even. What does that even mean "blacklivesbetter"? I think we definitely need to make Black lives better off. I'm pretty sure that isn't what he meant. I feel like this tweet calls for the Kpop kids to overrun #blacklivesbetter with something that gives a big FU to Terry Crews and everyone who thinks of them.

As for Karen, if someone were to start a thread about the intersection of racism and sexism, we could talk about it there. And we should probably talk about how these two get interleaved anyway.
 

Artistic Skaters

Drawing Figures
Messages
7,431
*** Hampton Inn worker calls police on Black guests at hotel pool in NC, video shows:
I'm surprised this woman didn't get hauled off to jail for speaking up so emphatically. It's clear the police officer was having problems with her talking back and defying his authority. Also the hotel employee told the police the hotel manager wanted the woman arrested, even though she showed her room key.
 

Artistic Skaters

Drawing Figures
Messages
7,431
As for Karen, if someone were to start a thread about the intersection of racism and sexism, we could talk about it there. And we should probably talk about how these two get interleaved anyway.
I started one using a commentary from today's WP:
 

Japanfan

Well-Known Member
Messages
23,188
So women of color shouldn’t speak their truths about their experience with white women because women should stay united even though that often plays into white female perspectives being treated as the default view for all women. Honestly, that’s a pretty condescending take, like the women of color in the above articles are just falling into a trap of divide and conquer.
That's not at all what I am saying - certainly not that WOC should fall into a 'trap of divide and conquer'. All women should speak their truths, and those who are particularly disadvantaged very much need to be heard.

My point is that is when we pit groups of women against each other, their power as a collective is diluted/diminished. When women stand up for each other or stand collectively, their power is amplified.

Society/TPTB has fought long and hard to keep 'woman in her place' (and pitting them against each other is one such tactic). Susan Faludi wrote an excellent book (older now), 'Backlash: The Undeclared War against American Women' documenting how whenever women take a take forward, they are pushed two steps back.
 

VGThuy

Well-Known Member
Messages
31,991
An incident in New Orleans. Strong language.

 

Tony Wheeler

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,336
An incident in New Orleans. Strong language.

As he was cutting down a BLM sign. And this is why the idiots that keep repeating ‘all lives matter’ need to realize what the are conveying.
 

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