Post Brexit Thread (2)

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taz'smum

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Just leaving this here in case you come across anyone who thinks Ireland will leave the EU:

https://news.sky.com/story/sky-data-poll-irish-overwhelmingly-back-governments-pressure-on-backstop-11629673
Why on earth would anyone think the Irish would leave the EU to join the farcical, racist, divided, arrogant, ignorant, embarrassing, s**thole, tinpot fascist state that the UK has become? (and I am being kind in my description of the current state of play in the UK)
 
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Vagabond

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Why on earth would anyone think the Irish would leave the EU to join the tinpot farcical embarrassing s**t fascist state that the UK has become?
Never mind the why and wherefore. The astonishing fact is that some people, such as Radio Four presenter John Humphrys do believe this. :wideeyes:

I suppose they also think that France should give back Calais. :shuffle:
 

antmanb

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Taz'smum is absolutely right we're going to crash out of the EU just as the hardline tory back benchers have always wanted and orchestrated it to happen.

The lack of thought has been quite staggering. I went to seminar last week where something I had not even thought of came up. Apparently the Commission has signed a 7 moth deal allowing BA and Easyjet to continue having access to EU infrastructure and fly zones in the event of a no deal. Without it flights would be grounded. Beyond the 7 month deal who knows what can be agreed. One tiny thing I haven't seen in the news but with enormous consequences...and that's just one, there are about a million things that will be an issue.
 

taz'smum

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Taz'smum is absolutely right we're going to crash out of the EU just as the hardline tory back benchers have always wanted and orchestrated it to happen.

The lack of thought has been quite staggering. I went to seminar last week where something I had not even thought of came up. Apparently the Commission has signed a 7 moth deal allowing BA and Easyjet to continue having access to EU infrastructure and fly zones in the event of a no deal. Without it flights would be grounded. Beyond the 7 month deal who knows what can be agreed. One tiny thing I haven't seen in the news but with enormous consequences...and that's just one, there are about a million things that will be an issue.
We will just become a hopeless, divided, powerless, bitter little country, who will be at the mercy of all other countries.
We will have trade deals alright, buying crap other countries cannot flog to countries as their standards won't permit them to buy such dire stuff!
 

hanca

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Oh dear. This thread is turning into doom and gloom forecasting. Perhaps taking some Bach remedy may help reduce the anxiety?
 

Louis

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Just leaving this here in case you come across anyone who thinks Ireland will leave the EU:
https://news.sky.com/story/sky-data-poll-irish-overwhelmingly-back-governments-pressure-on-backstop-11629673
This is all very sensible and just, but what happens to the border in the event of no deal? People don't want a hard border, but "no deal" leads to a hard border. Or a hard choice. How would people vote if the trade-off were a hard border, or leaving the Customs Union?

Apparently the Commission has signed a 7 moth deal allowing BA and Easyjet to continue having access to EU infrastructure and fly zones in the event of a no deal. Without it flights would be grounded. Beyond the 7 month deal who knows what can be agreed. One tiny thing I haven't seen in the news but with enormous consequences...and that's just one, there are about a million things that will be an issue.
I do wonder if the EU has a secret list of taxes, tariffs, etc. that it's going to unveil at the eleventh hour.

All of this said, I do still think a deal will get agreed. I suspect said deal will kick the can on virtually everything, but I'm bullish in the short-term. Post 31 December 2021, who knows.
 

taz'smum

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Oh dear. This thread is turning into doom and gloom forecasting. Perhaps taking some Bach remedy may help reduce the anxiety?
I am still waiting to hear about my residents permit 4 months after applying.
If my residents permit is rejected, the wording of the rejection will be, you now have 30 days to leave the country.
Now tell me, wouldn't you be in a state of anxiety knowing that was a very real possibility?
I would have to return to the UK with no home and no job!!
Of course I am in a state of extreme anxiety not knowing if I will have to leave my home and the life I have built over 11 years, in the very near future!
 

hanca

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I am still waiting to hear about my residents permit 4 months after applying.
If my residents permit is rejected, the wording of the rejection will be, you now have 30 days to leave the country.
Now tell me, wouldn't you be in a state of anxiety knowing that was a very real possibility?
I would have to return to the UK with no home and no job!!
Of course I am in a state of extreme anxiety not knowing if I will have to leave my home and the life I have built over 11 years, in the very near future!
Yes, I would be worried, but I don’t think I would be posting a post after post forecasting how my country is becoming hopeless, bitter etc. I get it, you don’t like your country and you do like it in France, but this country is not as you describe it. There are good things and there are bad things, same as everywhere else. Do I like what the politicians are doing? No, of course not, but I don’t let it cloud my perception of the country.
 

antmanb

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All of this said, I do still think a deal will get agreed. I suspect said deal will kick the can on virtually everything, but I'm bullish in the short-term. Post 31 December 2021, who knows.
The seminar I attended was just the day before the PM went to Brussels. The lawyer that did his bit there had been inside number 10 with them all the day before. He said she is adamant that they will not talk about a delay to the 29th March date. Apparently the cabinet were keen to talk about getting a delay on the table but her thoughts were that it just kicks decision points into the future.

I kind of agree - the most they will get for an extension is May because of the elections - two months doesn't give much more time for anything so we might as well get a decision made by 29th March.

The reality is that the border between Ireland and NI is a total sticking point and there is no solution (even a customs union doesn't fix the issue of movement of people) and it doesn't matter how much navel gazing goes on, there is nothing that will work so quite what anyone is expecting I don't know.
 

Louis

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The reality is that the border between Ireland and NI is a total sticking point and there is no solution (even a customs union doesn't fix the issue of movement of people) and it doesn't matter how much navel gazing goes on, there is nothing that will work so quite what anyone is expecting I don't know.
Because of the Common Travel Area, there is already free movement of people between the two countries: EU citizens and otherwise.

One solution -- that I can't imagine Ireland would agree to absent a really big carrot -- would be a combined Customs Union with the UK. Because of the CTA, there is already immigration when entering the UK or Ireland from any other country. Customs checks when leaving the Republic of Ireland wouldn't be completely awful to implement in the grand scheme of things.... (I don't think Ireland would need customs check on goods arriving from the rest of the EU; only goods leaving to the rest of the EU; it's unclear whether the UK would need customs checks somewhere, or to implement customs procedures in the Republic of Ireland for goods destined for the UK).

It seems like a workable solution to match the customs territory to the CTA, but is there any carrot big enough for Ireland to consider this? Various people have thrown around the idea of giving Northern Ireland "special" status, e.g., a Singapore style status, but that seems like rewarding bad behavior. Any way to reward good behavior and give a special advantage to the Republic of Ireland?
 

taz'smum

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I get it, you don’t like your country and you do like it in France, but this country is not as you describe it.
I love my country, but hate what BREXIT is doing to it.
My UK resident siblings and cousins tell me they do not recognise their country anymore, it is not the place they grew up due to the fallout from Brexit.
 

hanca

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I love my country, but hate what BREXIT is doing to it.
My UK resident siblings and cousins tell me they do not recognise their country anymore, it is not the place they grew up due to the fallout from Brexit.
If you look at your posts in thread, you definitely don’t sound like someone who loves this country. It is not UK’s fault that France is taking time to give you the residents permit. Maybe you could direct your frustration towards the agency that is causing the frustration?
 

taz'smum

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If you look at your posts in thread, you definitely don’t sound like someone who loves this country. It is not UK’s fault that France is taking time to give you the residents permit. Maybe you could direct your frustration towards the agency that is causing the frustration?

It is the UK that has unilaterally taken away my EU rights to free movement with Brexit!
The UK has forced on me the need to get a residents permit to remain in France.
The UK has taken away the right I have had for the past 11 years to live and work in France.
So it bloody well is the UK that is responsible for my frustration.
If the UK hadn't imposed this on my, my frustration at the wait for getting a residents permit would not exist, as I wouldn't need one!
 

antmanb

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Because of the Common Travel Area, there is already free movement of people between the two countries: EU citizens and otherwise.
I thought the entire issue wass because the Common Travel Area currently works because the UK and Ireland are both in the EU, the minute Ireland is in the EU and the UK isn't as a point of UK authority yes the Common Travel Area can continue from a UK perspective but the EU won't allow it because it results in an open border into the EU?
 

hanca

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It is the UK that has unilaterally taken away my EU rights to free movement with Brexit!
The UK has forced on me the need to get a residents permit to remain in France.
The UK has taken away the right I have had for the past 11 years to live and work in France.
So it bloody well is the UK that is responsible for my frustration.
If the UK hadn't imposed this on my, my frustration at the wait for getting a residents permit would not exist, as I wouldn't need one!
True, but one could argue that if YOU didn’t want to live in France, you wouldn’t need the residents permit either. And if France was slightly more efficient, you wouldn’t be so stressed now. So I wouldn’t put the whole blame on the UK. You and France have your share of blame too.
 

allezfred

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True, but one could argue that if YOU didn’t want to live in France, you wouldn’t need the residents permit either. And if France was slightly more efficient, you wouldn’t be so stressed now. So I wouldn’t put the whole blame on the UK. You and France have your share of blame too.
Was that necessary to say? Do you not have any compassion for the situation that @taz'smum and millions other like her have found themselves THROUGH NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN? Or are you an empathy black hole?
 

taz'smum

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True, but one could argue that if YOU didn’t want to live in France, you wouldn’t need the residents permit either. And if France was slightly more efficient, you wouldn’t be so stressed now. So I wouldn’t put the whole blame on the UK. You and France have your share of blame too.
You could are argue that the moon is pink.
You are creating arguments that are deflecting from the fact that this was imposed on me.

I have changed nothing in 11 years. It is the UK that has changed my circumstances so how the f**ck am I to blame for a change that has been imposed on me?
France equally has had Brexit imposed on it, so how can France be to blame for the UK's actions over which it has had zero control?

Its bad enough having these changes imposed on me, without someone saying it is my fault! :angryfire
 

allezfred

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Because of the Common Travel Area, there is already free movement of people between the two countries: EU citizens and otherwise.
Technically freedom of movement in the CTA only applies to Irish and U.K. citizens. The reality is different however.

Meanwhile, the most likely consequence of a No Deal Brexit looks like a border poll which is the very thing the DUP fears the most.

http://www.irishnews.com/news/brexit/2019/02/11/news/dup-letter-urges-unionists-to-prepare-for-border-poll-1548563/?param=ds441rif44T
 

taz'smum

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Technically freedom of movement in the CTA only applies to Irish and U.K. citizens. The reality is different however.

Meanwhile, the most likely consequence of a No Deal Brexit looks like a border poll which is the very thing the DUP fears the most.

http://www.irishnews.com/news/brexit/2019/02/11/news/dup-letter-urges-unionists-to-prepare-for-border-poll-1548563/?param=ds441rif44T
Wow!!

Though I feel maybe rather naively, that if Ireland reunited, it would be a good thing.
 

Vagabond

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Meanwhile, the most likely consequence of a No Deal Brexit looks like a border poll which is the very thing the DUP fears the most.

http://www.irishnews.com/news/brexit/2019/02/11/news/dup-letter-urges-unionists-to-prepare-for-border-poll-1548563/?param=ds441rif44T
Or not.

It is understood the DUP representative distributes similar letters, written on Northern Ireland Assembly headed paper, on an annual basis.
If you read the letter itself, it makes no reference to the likelihood of such a poll. It merely suggests that this is something that might come up and why the intended recipients (those who are not on the electoral votes but are likely to support the DUP and its causes) might want to be eligible to vote.

For what it's worth, I don't think the copyrighter read the article or the letter very closely either. :shuffle:
 

allezfred

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Wow!!

Though I feel maybe rather naively, that if Ireland reunited, it would be a good thing.
It would have to be done very carefully as Unionists have legitimate concerns about becoming a minority on the island. There were paramilitaries on both sides during the Troubles so it could reignite that.

Plus the Republic of Ireland would have to vote to allow unity and that is not a given.
 

allezfred

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Or not.



If you read the letter itself, it makes no reference to the likelihood of such a poll. It merely suggests that this is something that might come up and why the intended recipients (those who are not on the electoral votes but are likely to support the DUP and its causes) might want to be eligible to vote.

For what it's worth, I don't think the copyrighter read the article or the letter very closely either. :shuffle:
It literally refers to a border poll. The timing is not a coincidence. Especially as Arlene Foster has issued a denial that a border poll will take place which makes it even more of a certainty. Then there's this:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-47170711
 

Vagabond

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It literally refers to a border poll. The timing is not a coincidence. Especially as Arlene Foster has issued a denial that a border poll will take place which makes it even more of a certainty. Then there's this:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-47170711
Yes, it literally refers to a border poll. There is, however, no indication in the article itself that the letter is any different in substance, or timed any differently, from Alan Easton MLA's previous letters.
Which would have been a much better piece to cite in the first place, since it actually supports what you wrote in the earlier post.[/PRANCER]
 

Louis

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I thought the entire issue wass because the Common Travel Area currently works because the UK and Ireland are both in the EU, the minute Ireland is in the EU and the UK isn't as a point of UK authority yes the Common Travel Area can continue from a UK perspective but the EU won't allow it because it results in an open border into the EU?
No, the CTA pre-dates the EU and will continue even after the UK leaves the EU. Ireland is not in the Schengen Area, so the EU should have no concerns over freedom of movement of people. UK and Irish citizens will still have absolute right to settle in the other's country, EU or not, confirmed in the UK government's position papers. This right goes even further than freedom of movement, as it's basically permanent residency from day one. Travelling between the two countries, there is no legal need to verify identity or check documents (as allezfred said, technically for citizens). Even at airports, on the British side, there are no document checks; on the Irish side, there (usually?) are, but a passport is (technically?) not required.

Goods, on the other hand, are a big unresolved issue. Ireland, as a member of the customs union and single market, does not have flexibility to strike a deal with Britain the way it does re: immigration through its Schengen opt-out.
 

hanca

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Was that necessary to say? Do you not have any compassion for the situation that @taz'smum and millions other like her have found themselves THROUGH NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN? Or are you an empathy black hole?
My compassion is running a bit short after constantly reading how everything here is shit!
 

allezfred

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Yes, it literally refers to a border poll. There is, however, no indication in the article itself that the letter is any different in substance, or timed any differently, from Alan Easton MLA's previous letters.

Which would have been a much better piece to cite in the first place, since it actually supports what you wrote in the earlier post.[/PRANCER]
I know Prancer and you sir are no Prancer. :saint:

Anyway, good that you acknowledge that my original post stands. :)
 

hanca

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Well Brexit is shit. Or should that be Brexshit?
The Brexit may be (though I am not sure if it is the Brexit as such or the mess the politicians made from that), but the country isn’t. I don’t feel able to find in me even a tiny bit of compassion for someone who constantly writes that the country is shit.
 

allezfred

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The Brexit may be (though I am not sure if it is the Brexit as such or the mess the politicians made from that), but the country isn’t. I don’t feel able to find in me even a tiny bit of compassion for someone who constantly writes that the country is shit.
I think that is your interpretation. It is certainly not what I get from what @taz'smum posts. She is understandably frustrated with how the actions of the U.K. government will affect her life. This is 100% a decision the U.K. has made. It is not anyone else’s responsibility.
 
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