Politics of Why We Are All at Home Right Now

once_upon

Vaccinated
Messages
20,653
I think another part of the reason we will "be staying at home" political basis is the belief many hold that the US has the best healthcare system. For some reason people believe that there will always be a hospital bed, a ventilator, medications, doctors/nurses/all the team members for everyone. The "best healthcare system" IME comes from the right who oppose Medicare for all plans.

I read our local community police scanner page daily. Several times a week a hospital (at least 12 hospitals in the area) goes on diversion status for 4 or 8 hours at a time. Mostly because the ERs are overwhelmed, staffing issues, no in patient beds etc. Sometimes it's two hospitals for the same time. On diversion means squads aren't going there - you can still "walk in" but you are going to wait a very long time to even be triaged.

I find some people not in healthcare just cannot understand how the "the best healthcare system in the world" has limits to it's system. Until we find shared responsibility for trying to make C-19 endemic rather than pan*demic (ie vaccinations, masking, social distancing, protecting each other) the C-19 nightmare will continue. Eventually everyone will experience a lack of healthcare resources, either when you seek medical care or a family member/friend seeks medical care.

Resources are limited, we need to recognize that.
 

Dobre

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,767
I didn't know it was that bad in Oregon. Why is that? Is there a high anti-vaccine population in Oregon?
It is that bad in Oregon because we have the lowest ratio of hospital beds per capita in the country. (Apparently in some ways a good sign for health care in the state as it is an indication that the populace is generally healthy).

Oregon reached serious trouble when Southern Oregon blew up as there are a lot more people in Southern Oregon than can be transferred to Portland hospitals.

73% of adults in Oregon are vaccinated with one dose. We should reach 60% fully vaccinated in a matter of days. But those people aren't evenly distributed throughout the state. And certainly no counties are at the 90% now thought to be required for herd immunity. (How could they be without children being vaccinated?)

Geographically, three-quarters of the state is Republican. Just as geographically, two thirds of Washington State is Republican. And most of Northern California is Republican. And I'm sure this is true in states in general that have more land and less Democrat-heavy metropolis.

Restrictions kept case numbers down here throughout last summer/fall/winter. Large events were not allowed. Restaurants & indoor recreation were closed in counties that weren't being responsible about enforcing safety rules, and that helped suppress spread & case counts. Now there are no restrictions, except for the mask mandate. Some places are requiring proof of vaccination, but with the exception of universities, those are probably all events being held in high-vaccinated Northwest Oregon.

The threat to our healthcare system is/was real. (Life flight helicopters were running 15 hours behind a few weeks ago). We are hoping hospitalizations are on their way down now, though they are expected to stay high for weeks.

Our 65+ population is not as well vaccinated as the same population in various similar states. I've no idea why this is, but it can't be good for the hospital system. Seniors here are around 86% vaccinated. Well vaccinated, but not in the 90th percentile, which seniors in various states are. (This could be a case of relative success last year leading to less of a healthy fear among the high-risk population?)
 
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ballettmaus

Well-Known Member
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16,988
Stupid people. Not just the politicians. ;)
There'd certainly be a small percentage (there always is) but would we have that many if Trump and Co hadn't driven the "YKW is a hoax", "YKW is like the flu", "you don't need a vaccine", "masks infringe on our personal freedom" train?
 

Japanfan

Well-Known Member
Messages
24,936
I find some people not in healthcare just cannot understand how the "the best healthcare system in the world" has limits to it's system. Until we find shared responsibility for trying to make C-19 endemic rather than pan*demic (ie vaccinations, masking, social distancing, protecting each other) the C-19 nightmare will continue.

How can the US have the best healthcare system in the world in the absence of universal healthcare?

Maybe most 'advanced' medical system, but I think other countries are right up there in the US. Perhaps some specialties are the exception.
 

MacMadame

Doing all the things
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45,646
There'd certainly be a small percentage (there always is) but would we have that many if Trump and Co hadn't driven the "YKW is a hoax", "YKW is like the flu", "you don't need a vaccine", "masks infringe on our personal freedom" train?
Only stupid people would believe that. ;)

How can the US have the best healthcare system in the world in the absence of universal healthcare?
We don't have the best healthcare system in the world. @once_upon isn't saying we do. She's saying people believe that and it drives their behavior.

It's clearly documented that we pay more and get less healthcare compared to many other countries. This idea that our healthcare system is the best is just American jingo-ism.
 

skatingguy

Well-Known Member
Messages
10,322
There's also this lovely piece of news. Remember all those people saying it wasn't as bad as 1918?

*********-19 set to overtake 1918 Spanish flu as deadliest disease in American history

 

DORISPULASKI

Watching submarine races
Messages
12,814

This went viral!

I hope it made a few people think.
 

Vagabond

Well-Known Member
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20,606
I always wondered what kind of person belonged to the Republican Party in San Francisco. Now I know.
:yikes: :scream:
And hey, it would probably be a Republican badge of honor to be able to say “I got *********-19 from Marjorie Taylor Greene! herself!”
:(
 

Vagabond

Well-Known Member
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20,606
“I believe if we had fully implemented the mask mandates, the reduction in indoor dining, the getting friends and family to understand the risk of gathering in private homes, and we had increased testing, that we probably could have decreased fatalities into the 30 percent less to 40 percent less range,” Dr. Birx testified, according to excerpts provided by the committee.
:wall:

Food for thought for those who have opposed mandates related to you-know-what. (You know who you are.)
 

ballettmaus

Well-Known Member
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16,988
Is the law telling private companies how to handle vaccine/testing that DeSantis signed even legal? I thought the federal government couldn't regulate private businesses.
 

ballettmaus

Well-Known Member
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16,988
The government regulates businesses all the time. :confused:
Then why do we not have a federal vaccine mandate for all businesses yet? If you can prohbit one, you should be able to implement one, shouldn't you? Instead, Biden's mandate is said to face an uphill legal battle.
 

Vagabond

Well-Known Member
Messages
20,606
Is the law telling private companies how to handle vaccine/testing that DeSantis signed even legal? I thought the federal government couldn't regulate private businesses.
Any legislation that DeSantis may have signed is not federal legislation, and I hope that we will never have him sign any federal legislation in the future.

State governments regulate private companies all the time. The Federal government regulates private companies only if it has the constitutional authority to do so.
 
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ballettmaus

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16,988
State governments regulate private companies all the time. The Federal government regulates private companies only if it has the constitutional authority to do so.
Telling them which exemptions to offer/accept sounds more like interferring in their day-to-day business than a regulation. It just seems more specific than environmental regulations or anti-discrimination. Or maybe I just feel that way because one is common sense and the other is not. 🤷‍♀️
 

ballettmaus

Well-Known Member
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16,988
The thought of a new variant and who's going to be Governor in Virginia come January worries me. I keep consoling myself with the fact that the vaccines that have been administered can't be taken away but there's still plenty of damage he can do. :(
 

DORISPULASKI

Watching submarine races
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12,814
Re omicron:

Dr. Peter Hotez estimates that if it is necessary to make a new vaccine for it, it will take about 100 days.

He recommends getting Africa vaccinated.

That's not forever.
 
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DORISPULASKI

Watching submarine races
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12,814
Npr has a nifty little tool embedded in this article. You can see how your county compares to the average US county for vaccinations and deaths from YKW.

It is scary how much worse Trump's counties are doing. Incidentally, it also shows the good effects of high vaccination rates.


My county is doing relatively well.

41% voted for Donald Trump
Vaccination Rate: 84% of 18+ population vaccinated.
▲ 17 pts higher than the overall average
Death Rate: 25 deaths per 100k since May 1.
▼ 29 deaths per 100k lower than the overall average
 
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Susan1

Well-Known Member
Messages
10,446
Npr has a nifty little tool embedded in this article. You can see how your county compares to the average US county for vaccinations and deaths from YKW.

It is scary how much worse Trump's counties are doing. Incidentally, it also shows the good effects of high vaccination rates.


My county is doing relatively well.
Mine -
48% voted for Donald Trump
Vaccination Rate: 62% of 18+ population vaccinated.
▼ 5 pts lower than the overall average
Death Rate: 68 deaths per 100k since May 1.
▲ 14 deaths per 100k higher than the overall average
 

MacMadame

Doing all the things
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45,646
Here's mine:

18% voted for Donald Trump
Vaccination Rate: 84% of 18+ population vaccinated.
▲ 17 pts higher than the overall average
Death Rate: 14 deaths per 100k since May 1.
▼ 47 deaths per 100k lower than the overall average

Nice!
 

clairecloutier

Well-Known Member
Messages
12,539
Last week, there was an interesting essay in NYT that takes a deeper look at why the anti-vaxx movement has grown so much in the U.S. in recent years (and, also, around the world).

The article concludes that politics is the driver: The basic right-wing philosophy that the market is, essentially, the main and only public good, and that the government should not have a significant role in creating the common good, specifically, in the sphere of public health. As government has backed away from supporting citizens' well-being through public services, the people have answered in many cases by dissociating themselves from the common good of overall public health (and society generally) and instead now regard health decisions as purely personal and consumerist. It's an interesting argument.

Some excerpts:

Over the past four decades, governments have slashed budgets and privatized basic services. This has two important consequences for public health. First, people are unlikely to trust institutions that do little for them. And second, public health is no longer viewed as a collective endeavor, based on the principle of social solidarity and mutual obligation. People are conditioned to believe they’re on their own and responsible only for themselves. That means an important source of vaccine hesitancy is the erosion of the idea of a common good.

Americans began thinking about health care decisions this way only recently; during the 1950s polio campaigns, for example, most people saw vaccination as a civic duty. But as the public purse shrunk in the 1980s, politicians insisted that it’s no longer the government’s job to ensure people’s well-being; instead, Americans were to be responsible only for themselves and their own bodies. Entire industries, such as self-help and health foods, have sprung up on the principle that the key to good health lies in individuals making the right choices ..... Without an idea of the common good, health is often discussed using the language of “choice.”

But there are problems with reducing public health to a matter of choice. It gives the impression that individuals are wholly responsible for their own health. This is despite growing evidence that health is deeply influenced by factors outside our control; public health experts now talk about the “social determinants of health,” the idea that personal health is never simply just a reflection of individual lifestyle choices, but also the class people are born into, the neighborhood they grew up in and the race they belong to.

Another problem with reducing well-being to personal choice is that this treats health as a commodity. This isn’t surprising, since we shop for doctors and insurance plans the way we do all other goods and services .... When thinking as a consumer, people tend to downplay social obligations in favor of a narrow pursuit of self-interest. As one parent told Reich, “I’m not going to put my child at risk to save another child.”
 
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MacMadame

Doing all the things
Messages
45,646
So if the Build Back Better bill ever gets passed and the government starts doing its job again, do you think that sentiment will start to recede?
 

BlueRidge

AYS's snark-sponge
Messages
59,691
"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

Above is the preamble of the Constitution of the United States of America. It sets out the purpose of the Constitution. Managing our society to keep people as safe as we are able from a deadly ***** is exactly the kind of thing it was created for. If this requires mask mandates, vaccine mandates, or quarantines of some sort, the general welfare, justice, domestic tranquility all of these things for which the Constitution was created mean that we will do these sorts of things to manage a *********.

The people who oppose mask mandates, vaccine mandates, shutdowns, etc., do not understand or oppose our constitutional order.

We set up a society and pledged "liberty and justice for all," that is a complex goal that requires a great deal of working together and a mature understanding that liberty and justice for all is different than "liberty for me, full stop."

We could use a lot more patriotism in the United States these days. People understanding the complexity of the goals of our founding and our constitutional order. We don't live as separate monads whose actions impact no one else, it follows from that undeniable fact that liberty and justice are both going to involve a complex give and take among people.

OTOH, sometimes I just want to scream GROW UP because I can't believe so many people truly don't agree that we can't all just always do what we would choose if we our individual self were the only one in society who mattered. Or who think that saying this is advocating for communism or some other way of deflecting responsibility for being a part of society. "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" weirdly John Kennedy said that at the height of the cold war. If a president said that today he'd probably be called a communist for it.
 

ballettmaus

Well-Known Member
Messages
16,988
I just remembered that Missouri made a mess out of health measures, including quarantine guidance/mandates. That ought to be fun with Omicron.
 

FiveRinger

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,773
I just remembered that Missouri made a mess out of health measures, including quarantine guidance/mandates. That ought to be fun with Omicron.
Jesus....don't remind me. I'm out to dinner with my family and they lifted the mask mandate in the county. These morons are in here with no masks on waiting to be seated. I don't understand. I want to leave, but we're out for my dad's birthday.
 

SpeedySucks

Well-Known Member
Messages
514
Jesus....don't remind me. I'm out to dinner with my family and they lifted the mask mandate in the county. These morons are in here with no masks on waiting to be seated. I don't understand. I want to leave, but we're out for my dad's birthday.
It’s really infuriating. Lots of school districts are dropping their mask mandate as well due to threats and vigilantism from the asshole attorney general. I’m trying to shop exclusively in the city, since the city still has a mask mandate and the vast majority of people seem to be following it. When I had to go somewhere in the county earlier this week, maybe 60% were wearing masks at best. I doubt most of the people not wearing masks are vaccinated.
 

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