Politics of Why We Are All at Home Right Now

MacMadame

Staying at home
Messages
38,818
I actually hadn't. When is it going to disappear after Inauguration has come and gone and it's not gone? They're running out of dates.
I accidentally read the comments under a C0v1d-19 article and that's when I learned that. :D As for what day they will pick next, I figure they'll be too busy complaining about the deficit and how Biden hasn't done anything about it ;)
 

genevieve

drinky typo pbp, closet hugger (she/her)
Staff member
Messages
37,319
Washington State governor press conference going on: Inslee closing down indoor activities again, but state, county and city officials urging people to support local retail and food businesses (as well as launching new relief opportunities).

A warning against hoarding - I went to the grocery this am just to try to get a turkey and regular stuff and people were behaving themselves.
 

Vagabond

Well-Known Member
Messages
17,843
One thing I'm curious to know is if GOP supporters are dying from C19 in disproportionate numbers.
The following animations showing trends since July 1 reflect statewide, rather than individual, party affiliation. The author took his data from The New York Times.


Horrifying, innit?
 

allezfred

Lipinski Stole My Catchphrase
Staff member
Messages
57,380
One thing I'm curious to know is if GOP supporters are dying from C19 in disproportionate numbers.
Anecdotally what that nurse from South Dakota had to say about YKW deniers refusing to believe they had YKW and dying from it would seem to indicate that the answer is yes. :(
 

ballettmaus

Well-Known Member
Messages
15,794
And on the subject of why it matters that the President is above reproach: I'm much more skeptical of the Moderna vaccine. A vaccine that Trump/the administration is directly involved in (and Trump's vaccine chief has financial interests in) just happens to be just this much better than the other vaccine he has no involvement in and they announce it a week after the other concern did? It's entirely possible that it would have happened like this regardless of who's President. But Trump is still President, he does need to be the center of attention and there are the financial conflicts of interests. So, I don't know and am glad that it's still a little ways off before the vaccine will be available.
 

Louis

Private citizen
Messages
15,371
Older people are most likely to die from C19 and most likely to be Republican, so there is almost certainly a correlation. Kinda like ice cream sales and rape, both of which happen more frequently when it’s hot out.

Controlling for age, I doubt there is a correlation between C19 deaths and party affiliation.

Cases may not be as clear cut.
 

DORISPULASKI

Watching submarine races
Messages
12,173
There probably is a connection...males die more frequently when they catch ********* because of this mechanism, just discovered:


Men are more likely to self identify as Republicans.

And Republicans are more cavalier about catching the ***** and less likely to wear masks
 
Last edited:

caseyedwards

Well-Known Member
Messages
15,743
What does not wearing masks mean? Like nothing? Or below the nose or mouth? People of all races ages genders and i assume political affiliation seem to be all about wearing masks below nose and mouth
 

BlueRidge

AYS's snark-sponge
Messages
57,907
anyone who doesn't think there is something seriously, dangerously wrong in this country should read this article, the words of a county health director in Missouri:

https://tinyurl.com/y4w9rnn2 (link to Washington Post)

I don’t really know if I should be talking about all of this. It makes me worried for my safety. I’ve had strange cars driving back and forth past my house. I get threatening messages from people saying they’re watching me. They followed my family to the park and took pictures of my kids. How insane is that? I know it’s my job to be out front talking about the importance of public health — educating people, keeping them safe. Now it kind of scares me.

So much suspicion, so much hostility. Why? How do we undo this?
 

BlueRidge

AYS's snark-sponge
Messages
57,907
That woman's story is just terrible. :( :cry:

Honestly, I don't know where we go from here as a country.

She says in the article they've done similar campaigns around measles and other infectious diseases (although I guess those didn't include masks) and there was never any problem, people were receptive and positive. I know the ********* is far more disruptive to people's lives but I just feel like people have been primed for years by a segment of politicians and political media not to trust other Americans and all of this became super-charged because of the politicization of the *********.

We all know where to place the blame, but how do we change this horrible situation?
 

Prancer

Needs More Sleep
Staff member
Messages
51,002
She says in the article they've done similar campaigns around measles and other infectious diseases (although I guess those didn't include masks) and there was never any problem, people were receptive and positive.
Some of them were, anyway, but I find it hard to believe all of them were.

I will see if I can find the links, but I have some articles about persuading anti-vaxx parents to have their kids vaccinated for measles that I think are relevant here. The CDC developed three advertising campaigns to persuade the parents and tried each campaign on focus groups made up of anti-vaxxer parents.

Campaign A focused on facts and used statistics about measles to show that measles is not as innocuous as many of the parents believed.

Campaign B focused on credibility and authority and quoted medical authorities on the importance of measles vaccinations.

Campaign C focused on emotions and showed many images of children sick and suffering.

Campaign C was found to be slightly effective in persuading parents, but only slightly; a few of the parents were willing to think about the issue some more. Campaign B got little response one way or another. But Campaign A actually made the parents more determined than ever to not have their children vaccinated.

The advertising campaigns were abandoned as useless and the CDC did more research. What they found was that a) distrust of the government is pervasive among certain groups; b) that a percentage of the population are highly resistant to being told what to do and c) there is a lot of overlap between those two groups.

The most effective approach researchers have found to date is to have doctors talk to their patients in a nonjudgmental way, approaching the issue as "Do you have any questions for me about vaccination?" and then discuss the issue with a focus on understanding and praise for the parents' concerns about their children's health and safety.

I use all this in class as an example of effective and ineffective persuasion, but I've thought about this a lot during the ********* because it seems to me that we are seeing the same issues in persuasion here--the more insistence there is on "This is fact and science! How can you not see this!" the more resistance there is to the message. There are a lot of issues involved here; I don't think the solution to this problem is simple or straightforward, and it definitely isn't "We need to show them more facts." Facts are not really the issue.
 

BlueRidge

AYS's snark-sponge
Messages
57,907
I use all this in class as an example of effective and ineffective persuasion, but I've thought about this a lot during the ********* because it seems to me that we are seeing the same issues in persuasion here--the more insistence there is on "This is fact and science! How can you not see this!" the more resistance there is to the message. There are a lot of issues involved here; I don't think the solution to this problem is simple or straightforward, and it definitely isn't "We need to show them more facts." Facts are not really the issue.

Definitely not, I agree.

But there is a reason I posted this in PI and not in the ********* forum and that is while there are ongoing things like the anti-vax movement that is its own animal, most of what I read in the article and think is happening relates directly to the rightwing populist political movement storming this country and victimizing us all as it goes.

Its not Trump, he just glommed onto and it onto him. But there are a lot of people deliberately sowing hostility and distrust in our society. Some have their own separate agendas like the anti-vax movement but much of it is subsumed under the rightwing populism that Trump has fulfilled so well. (Although I have a whole separate post to make about how libertarianism has played a very significant role in preparing the ground of distrust of government and of others.)

I'm kind of angry (a work issue is fueling this at the moment) right now that we are in this place. I'm really tired of having to try to understand people who have been swallowed whole by a malevolent political force. I know we have no other choice but damn. Just damn.
 

Prancer

Needs More Sleep
Staff member
Messages
51,002
Its not Trump, he just glommed onto and it onto him. But there are a lot of people deliberately sowing hostility and distrust in our society. Some have their own separate agendas like the anti-vax movement but much of it is subsumed under the rightwing populism that Trump has fulfilled so well. (Although I have a whole separate post to make about how libertarianism has played a very significant role in preparing the ground of distrust of government and of others.)
There has always been a strong suspicion toward the government in the US. Conservatives in general are (theoretically) all about small government, so they are, at least to a point, anti-government in their thinking (even though this never translates to smaller government under GOP admins). At some point, they found that exploiting this increased their power and could be used to expand their grasp on the government (irony!). So that's what they did.

This led to people becoming more anti-government, which led to more anti-government people going into politics, which led to more sowing of distrust.

But my point, now that I am getting there, is that I think a lot people believe that all this there is a deliberate and cynical scheme to destroy society, where it seems to me that the true problem is that most of these people are absolutely sincere in their thinking. I do think they are deliberately spreading their ideas, no question of that, but I don't think most of them are cynical about it.

If they were cynically exploiting divisions in society, I think it would be easier, as I think they could be persuaded that populism is counterproductive and it would be in their best interests to stop. But if they are actually sincere in these beliefs, talking at them or to them isn't likely to do much at all.
 

BlueRidge

AYS's snark-sponge
Messages
57,907
I'm not sure who you are referencing @Prancer . There have been a lot of people cynically sowing distrust for their own gain for a long time, from Lee Atwater and Newt Gingrich to Rush Limbaugh and Alex Jones, to various Fox News hosts, to Steve Bannon and Donald Trump. There most definitely is a deliberate effort to promote authoritarian populism by sowing division and distrust.

Now has there always been distrust of the establishment, suspicion of educated experts and all that? Sure. These folks of course didn't create that anymore than they created the racism they stoke.

Has there always been small government conservatism? Yes, since the beginning of the Republic but it has often been something quite different than rightwing authoritarian populism. I don't think Ayn Rand following libertarians like Alan Greenspan intended to bring about the country we see today.

They are all in the mix. Ronald Reagan is in the mix, but I think he was sincere in his anti-government belief (even if I think he sincerely was motivated by racism to an extent).

Those are the things that were in the stew when more intentionally malicious people came to stir the pot, and to take advantage of all of it, like Donald Trump.

Are the ordinary voting people who support Donald Trump sincere? A lot of them seem to be. They seem to truly believe what they are quoted as saying.

The only responsibility I feel towards them is to treat them as having the dignity I think all human beings have. But I don't feel any call to especially try to understand them other than for my own curiosity.

But I don't think we should be at the mercy of the existence of these many people who perhaps sincerely believe that liberals are an apocalyptic threat to America and Donald Trump is standing between the country and ruin.
 

Prancer

Needs More Sleep
Staff member
Messages
51,002
I'm not sure who you are referencing @Prancer . There have been a lot of people cynically sowing distrust for their own gain for a long time, from Lee Atwater and Newt Gingrich to Rush Limbaugh and Alex Jones, to various Fox News hosts, to Steve Bannon and Donald Trump. There most definitely is a deliberate effort to promote authoritarian populism by sowing division and distrust.
Yes, there are those people. But there are a lot of rank and file politicians who are, I believe, completely sincere.
Now has there always been distrust of the establishment, suspicion of educated experts and all that? Sure. These folks of course didn't create that anymore than they created the racism they stoke.

Has there always been small government conservatism? Yes, since the beginning of the Republic but it has often been something quite different than rightwing authoritarian populism. I don't think Ayn Rand following libertarians like Alan Greenspan intended to bring about the country we see today.
I'm not really talking about conservatism, but about distrust of the government.

I am Scots-Irish, you know. My people hated government before "conservative" was a political term.
The only responsibility I feel towards them is to treat them as having the dignity I think all human beings have. But I don't feel any call to especially try to understand them other than for my own curiosity.
I don't know why you would be responsible for understanding them any more than you already do. They really aren't all that complicated. What more is there to know?
But I don't think we should be at the mercy of the existence of these many people who perhaps sincerely believe that liberals are an apocalyptic threat to America and Donald Trump is standing between the country and ruin.
I don't think we should be, either. I don't know of anyone who isn't part of that belief system who does.
 

canbelto

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,030
Ok well I'm in a shock. I hang out at a popular reality tv show message board where most of the members are gay males. You'd think it'd be a rather progressive board right? Wrong. I go to "OT and Political Discussion" and it's apparently where all the Qnuts have gone after FB cracked down on the groups. There's daily "studies" about how masks CAUSE C19. Conspiracy theories run amok. Plans to cause bodily harm to certain governors. Wtf. I didn't know young, gay males who adore the Bachelorette are also CV-deniers.
 

VALuvsMKwan

Wandering Goy
Messages
7,298
Ok well I'm in a shock. I hang out at a popular reality tv show message board where most of the members are gay males. You'd think it'd be a rather progressive board right? Wrong. I go to "OT and Political Discussion" and it's apparently where all the Qnuts have gone after FB cracked down on the groups. There's daily "studies" about how masks CAUSE C19. Conspiracy theories run amok. Plans to cause bodily harm to certain governors. Wtf. I didn't know young, gay males who adore the Bachelorette are also CV-deniers.
Isn't the term "reality show" an oxymoron?
 

Louis

Private citizen
Messages
15,371
Every single US Senator who tested positive has been Republican (although Kaine and Casey both said they tested positive for antibodies after they had symptoms in the spring). Of the Representitives who tested positive, about twice as many belong to the GOP. https://www.npr.org/2020/04/15/8336...*-has-affected-individual-members-of-congress

Seems like good evidence that we can leave things largely open while recommending masks and distancing. I mean, Senators are travelling, having in-person gatherings with relatively large groups with relatively large group bubbles, and exempting themselves from many requirements that apply to others.

For once, I'm happy to be in agreement the Democrats - we can stop this with common sense; now, let's get on with it!
 

BlueRidge

AYS's snark-sponge
Messages
57,907
Yes, there are those people. But there are a lot of rank and file politicians who are, I believe, completely sincere.
The apparatchiks, you mean? I imagine some are sincere and some are interested in their own careers in politics. But they are the followers just like the rank and file voters.
I'm not really talking about conservatism, but about distrust of the government.
Its a little hard to know if there is or ever was a political ideology of conservatism these days.

Yes there has always been distrust of government but I think that it has been utilized by the cynical manipulators and turned into something ferocious as a political force which is now endangering democracy and governance in this country in a way it did not in the past.
I am Scots-Irish, you know. My people hated government before "conservative" was a political term.
Before they came to America I suppose, but I think the word conservative as a political term does go back at least to the 18th Century?


I don't know why you would be responsible for understanding them any more than you already do. They really aren't all that complicated. What more is there to know?
Oh only because I've been reading a lot of columns looking at what Democrats need to do that treat it as though there was something Democrats can do and sometimes go to the point of blaming liberals for the state of the country because they just don't understand all those people out there who have turned to Trump.
I don't think we should be, either. I don't know of anyone who isn't part of that belief system who does.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top
Do Not Sell My Personal Information