Politics of Why We Are All at Home Right Now

Susan1

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,174
With the number of people in that stage the question might be exposure to what?
They were showing a clip, and it looked like trump and pence were practically holding hands, they were standing so close to each other with their hands at their sides.
 

Japanfan

Well-Known Member
Messages
25,177
In the UK (and I believe in select US cities), eviction is banned and people cannot be required to pay rent

:confused:

So what happens when tenants don't pay rent for several months? They can stay in their rental unit/home indefinitely?

I'm all for tenants rights, but a tenant's part of the rental agreement is to pay rent as determined. Am I wrong about that?
 

Louis

Private citizen
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17,243
So what happens when tenants don't pay rent for several months? They can stay in their rental unit/home indefinitely?

I'm all for tenants rights, but a tenant's part of the rental agreement is to pay rent as determined. Am I wrong about that?

Right now, the guidance is that nobody can be evicted for three months, even if they don't pay. Those who can pay are being told to pay, but polling indicates that 40% do not intend to pay (which is right now far above the unemployment rate). Basically, there is no consequence of not paying, so some people feel like they should just hold on to their cash given the uncertainty.

Landlords, like others, will have the ability to defer mortgage payments for three months, but interest accrues (unlike for tenants). There is, as far as I know, no provision to defer bills -- e.g., landlords who pay central heating bills, insurance, etc. still need to pay those bills even with no rent coming in. I believe some areas are deferring (but not forgiving) tax payments.

At the end of the three months, landlords and tenants are supposed to figure out a payment plan for the back rent. No one has yet addressed what happens if the tenant just bails - in all likelihood, the landlord will have to eat it with relatively little consequence to the tenant (other than a bad reference).
 

Japanfan

Well-Known Member
Messages
25,177
Well, I sure wish we could not pay rent for a month. We give our landlord checks annually for all twelve months. And while my income is low right now (has been for the past six months, actually :(), Mr. Japanfan is in no danger of losing his job. He's a caregiver to mentally handicapped in group homes, and thus an 'essential' worker.

Which brings to mind - everyone who has the financial/emotional/practical support of a family member/friend/professional at this time: BE GRATEFUL.
 

Peaches LaTour

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,470
:confused:

So what happens when tenants don't pay rent for several months? They can stay in their rental unit/home indefinitely?

I'm all for tenants rights, but a tenant's part of the rental agreement is to pay rent as determined. Am I wrong about that?

In Portland, Oregon, there is a 90 day ban on evictions. Don't know how the landlord/owners will deal with this but the city does not want more homeless people on the streets now than there already are.

I just paid my rent for the next 2 months, something I usually cannot afford but I just got my income tax refund back so that will pay for one of those two months.

There goes my plans to buy a computer!
 

MacMadame

Doing all the things
Messages
49,196
There is a ban on evictions even for cause in all of CA. Plus some of the cities and counties have their own bans. (Some of those bans cover more than the state ban.)

My kids are still paying their rent though. It's still due so pay it now or pay it later and they figured they'd pay it as long as they could.
 

hanca

Values her privacy
Messages
12,384
Right now, the guidance is that nobody can be evicted for three months, even if they don't pay. Those who can pay are being told to pay, but polling indicates that 40% do not intend to pay (which is right now far above the unemployment rate). Basically, there is no consequence of not paying, so some people feel like they should just hold on to their cash given the uncertainty.

Landlords, like others, will have the ability to defer mortgage payments for three months, but interest accrues (unlike for tenants). There is, as far as I know, no provision to defer bills -- e.g., landlords who pay central heating bills, insurance, etc. still need to pay those bills even with no rent coming in. I believe some areas are deferring (but not forgiving) tax payments.

At the end of the three months, landlords and tenants are supposed to figure out a payment plan for the back rent. No one has yet addressed what happens if the tenant just bails - in all likelihood, the landlord will have to eat it with relatively little consequence to the tenant (other than a bad reference).
Just curious, is it just a guidance or is it something the landlords have to obey? when did it come out and how reinforced it will be in reality? I mean, are there consequences for evicting someone? You seem to indicate that tenants will not pay rent even if they can afford to pay, because of uncertainty and them wanting to keep the money ‘just in case’. But I don’t think the police and courts’ priorities will be chasing the landlords if they evict someone.
 

snoopy

Well-Known Member
Messages
12,274
This was a compelling argument I read yesterday but decided against posting it here due to the likelihood of melting posters. But with the news that China donated 1,000 ventilators to NYC I rethought it. The article doesn’t really much duscuss trump’s role in diminishing US influence but it should.



Related:

 
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PrincessLeppard

Holding Alex Johnson's Pineapple
Messages
27,684
This is a long Twitter thread, but I thought it was a good explanation of why we are where we are, and how it could've been prevented. From an economic standpoint. :)

 

nimi

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,682
ICYMI, here's a Reuters article from a couple of weeks ago: U.S. axed CDC expert job in China months before virus outbreak
Zhu and the other sources said the American expert, Dr. Linda Quick, was a trainer of Chinese field epidemiologists who were deployed to the epicenter of outbreaks to help track, investigate and contain diseases. (...)

(...) Quick could have provided real-time information to U.S. and other officials around the world during the first weeks of the outbreak, when they said the Chinese government tamped down on the release of information and provided erroneous assessments.

Quick left amid a bitter U.S. trade dispute with China when she learned her federally funded post, officially known as resident adviser to the U.S. Field Epidemiology Training Program in China, would be discontinued as of September, the sources said. The U.S. CDC said it first learned of a “cluster of 27 cases of pneumonia” of unexplained origin in Wuhan, China, on Dec. 31.


And then there's this from LA Times a couple of days ago:
The PREDICT project, launched in response to the 2005 H5N1 “bird flu” scare, gathered specimens from more than 10,000 bats and 2,000 other mammals in search of dangerous viruses. They detected about 1,200 viruses that could spread from wild animals to humans, signaling pandemic potential. More than 160 of them were novel coronaviruses, much like SARS-CoV-2.

They also took blood samples from people in rural China, and learned that, in living among wildlife, they had been exposed to coronaviruses — a clear sign that, if those viruses spread easily among humans, they could take off. That “raised the red flag,” said Mazet.

“Coronaviruses were jumping easily across species lines and were ones to watch for epidemics and pandemics,” she said.

The program also trained nearly 7,000 people across medical and agricultural sectors in 30 countries in Asia, Africa and the Middle East to help them detect deadly new viruses on their own. One of those labs was the Wuhan Institute of Virology — the Chinese lab that quickly identified SARS-CoV-2, Mazet said.

The Wuhan lab received USAID funding for equipment, and PREDICT coordinators connected the scientists there with researchers in other countries in order to synchronize tracking of novel viruses before SARS-CoV-2.

The project’s second funding cycle concluded on Sept. 30, 2019, less than two months before the new coronavirus probably began spreading. It was granted a zero-dollar six-month extension — through March 2020 — to write up final reports.
:wall:
 

Louis

Private citizen
Messages
17,243
Just curious, is it just a guidance or is it something the landlords have to obey? when did it come out and how reinforced it will be in reality? I mean, are there consequences for evicting someone? You seem to indicate that tenants will not pay rent even if they can afford to pay, because of uncertainty and them wanting to keep the money ‘just in case’. But I don’t think the police and courts’ priorities will be chasing the landlords if they evict someone.

You can read about it here:

There is no legal way for landlords to evict someone right now. If they illegally evict someone, I imagine they will face the normal penalties for illegal eviction, which include fees, penalties, court costs, and possible jail time. And if someone calls the police saying they've been illegally evicted, then I hope the police would respond.
 

hanca

Values her privacy
Messages
12,384
You can read about it here:

There is no legal way for landlords to evict someone right now. If they illegally evict someone, I imagine they will face the normal penalties for illegal eviction, which include fees, penalties, court costs, and possible jail time. And if someone calls the police saying they've been illegally evicted, then I hope the police would respond.
Thank you. It is not really my problem because I am neither renting property nor letting it for tenants to live in. I am just curious how the ‘new order’ will work.
 

VGThuy

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,221
I didn't realize that Andrew Yang had published an op-ed advising Asians to be more American so people wouldn't beat them up over *********-19 but apparently he did and this is a response to it:


A lot of Asian-Americans have responded very critically to it. I’m one of them. It was a stupid piece. I get that Asian-Americans in general should be more politically-engaged, who shouldn’t? But the manner in which he presented it and playing into respectability politics (which does not work), and ignoring the history and current violence and anti-Asian rhetoric of this country was very disgusting to me. Asian-Americans should not have to prove our Americaness. And wearing red, white, and blue and eating hamburgers in public and wearing our shoes inside the house (the last part was facetious) won’t do anything. The troubling thing is that I’ve watched many of his interviews and he seems to get a lot of the deep issues affecting the Asian-Am community but some of his solutions seem very naive and almost glib. It put a lot stock into his detractor’s points about his ego and lack of experience thinking he knows more than the countless Asian-Am activists who work on the ground and face these things.

I had issues with him in the past thinking he can reach out to those on the other side who really hold different values to the point where it’s not possible to see eye-to-eye. I get the appeal of that. I was like that in college, but I grew out of that naïveté when I see people justifying horrendous acts. And the way he would not explicit call things out for fear of losing the support he had among that group of his online base left a bitter taste in my mouth. A while back, Yang uncharacteristically called out Trump’s racist and xenophobic characterization of Rep. Omar, and sure enough a big part of his base got mad at him and accused him of playing into Dem narratives. That part that he was attracting and trying to keep made me do a double-take about him.
 
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hydro

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,759
Right now, the guidance is that nobody can be evicted for three months, even if they don't pay. Those who can pay are being told to pay, but polling indicates that 40% do not intend to pay (which is right now far above the unemployment rate). Basically, there is no consequence of not paying, so some people feel like they should just hold on to their cash given the uncertainty.

Landlords, like others, will have the ability to defer mortgage payments for three months, but interest accrues (unlike for tenants). There is, as far as I know, no provision to defer bills -- e.g., landlords who pay central heating bills, insurance, etc. still need to pay those bills even with no rent coming in. I believe some areas are deferring (but not forgiving) tax payments.

At the end of the three months, landlords and tenants are supposed to figure out a payment plan for the back rent. No one has yet addressed what happens if the tenant just bails - in all likelihood, the landlord will have to eat it with relatively little consequence to the tenant (other than a bad reference).

It’s a public health issue, largely in low income areas, but also with threats to everyone. If people get evicted, where will they go? Crowded shelters? Other family? The streets? All bad options for trying to contain a virus during a pandemic.

Momentary losses in rent, income, interest etc will save a lot of healthcare and other dollars down the road. And of course, you know, also save people’s lives, landlord or tenant alike.
 

MacMadame

Doing all the things
Messages
49,196
Momentary losses in rent, income, interest etc will save a lot of healthcare and other dollars down the road. And of course, you know, also save people’s lives, landlord or tenant alike.
There are landlords here in the Bay Area announcing they are going to not charge rent for 3 months. Obviously, these landlords are in a position where doing so won't cause them to default on their loans or not have enough to eat and not all landlords can do that. But I think they "get it" that they want their good tenants to stay in the long-term and requiring their tenants to pay months of back rent while they are temporarily unemployed is not good for the landlord's bottom line either.
 

snoopy

Well-Known Member
Messages
12,274
In the Bay Area? They’ve probably been making money hand over fist in the past 5 years.
 

MacMadame

Doing all the things
Messages
49,196
In the Bay Area? They’ve probably been making money hand over fist in the past 5 years.
It depends on the landlord. There are some that just have a house or two and charge enough rent to cover all their expenses as they own the houses as investments and aren't really interested in being full-time landlords. These little guys are probably feeling the crunch right now.
 

FiveRinger

Well-Known Member
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7,873
https://tinyurl.com/wptloz9

I saw this reported in a video by a comedian on YouTube, and I seriously thought it was a joke until I saw this on CNN's site. This is so crazy. The Cheesecake Factory has written a letter to its landlord advising that they will not be paying rent for April, and quite possibly May, either. The moral of the story....they aren't making any cake so they aren't paying the landlord any bread. That should have been the title of the article.

I wish that the government would bail me out of all of my debt and relieve me of my obligations the way that they do for banks, car manufacturers, and now it looks like airlines and cruise lines. What do I need to do?
 

Peaches LaTour

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,470
Believe it or not, I had to argue with my landlady this week to get her to allow me to pay my rent for the next two months rather than just one month!

I figured it would be a safeguard for us both if i became ill & can't get out to mail a check in 30 more days.

She lives out of state & I am not sure if she knows there is a 90 eviction ban here or not.
 

FiveRinger

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,873
Believe it or not, I had to argue with my landlady this week to get her to allow me to pay my rent for the next two months rather than just one month!

I figured it would be a safeguard for us both if i became ill & can't get out to mail a check in 30 more days.

She lives out of state & I am not sure if she knows there is a 90 eviction ban here or not.
You're a good tenant. Even though having a place to live is probably a number 1 priority, I can't tell you the number of times that my dad's tenants have called me/him asking for extensions because they had to pay car notes or whatever else and were going to be late paying rent. This is definitely an extenuating circumstance. I would almost expect someone to say that they can't pay right now. I'm in Missouri, in a major city, and the city and county have implemented stay home orders probably two weeks ago, when we still only had 2 Covid-19 cases in the area. The state wide order doesn't go into effect until Monday at 12:01am, which is just nuts. I'm glad that the local government had more sense than the state and federal politicians do.

I'm rambling, but I'd be thrilled if someone called and said that she wanted to pay her month a couple months in advance. That's smart and frankly, your landlord should be glad that she has a good tenant who is trying to do the right thing and not take advantage of a situation that you certainly could have.

I've talked to people who are already thinking about blowing their stimulus checks. I can't even imagine. I'm trying to hold on to as much cash as I can, and I'm paying every bill that I can. Just because the utility companies, mortgage companies, car lenders, banks, etc. are granting extensions, that stuff still has to be paid. If things are hard now, I can only imagine how much worse they are going to be before they get better. And I definitely don't want to use up my favors now. It looks like we all are going to have a long way to go. Both my home and car are paid for, but that does not mean that I'm not worried about what's going on around me. I expect a crime wave to be next when desperation starts to set in.

Speaking of....I went to Target two days ago and got the last 4-pack of paper towels in the store. I saw it at an abandoned check out counter. I swear I heard it call my name. I took pictures of it after I put in my trunk and sent it to my friends like it was a lottery check. It's was ridiculous, but the struggle is real. I haven't seen toilet paper in the store in weeks. Several people that I know, myself included, are using Kleenex because that's all we can find, and there's a limit on that. On that same Target run I was disgusted because there were only 2 50-count bottles of acetaminophen. There's no baby formula anywhere. I won't even mention the cleaning supplies that are gone. What were these people doing before this unfortunate situation occurred? Nobody had bleach or wipes before now? People are cooking beans now for the first time ever, I'm assuming, because they're on short supply, also, along with rice and baking supplies. Dear God, how did we survive before all of this? And those are just some of the things that we're worrying about along with trying to keep from getting sick.
 

MacMadame

Doing all the things
Messages
49,196
Several people that I know, myself included, are using Kleenex because that's all we can find,
You probably know this already, but just in case: these shouldn't be flushed down the toilet. They will clog the pipes.

The baby formula shortage worries me.
 

Louis

Private citizen
Messages
17,243
Just to be clear, I support the ban on evictions. I do think the legislation is a bit lacking in "what comes next," but that's understandable given that no one knows what's coming next.

At the same time, I was disappointed to see the statistic that 40% of people do not intend to pay rent because there is no evidence that 40% of renters are that bad off (yet). Defaults will hurt everyone in the long run. Statistics like this are the reason landlords want to charge large security deposits, require rent upfront, etc. Hopefully the stat was exaggerated and common sense will prevail.
 

VGThuy

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,221
I think people who aren't paying rent now are really afraid that in 30-90-days time, they will really need that money for food or basics and hoping the forbearance period will be extended. I think a lot of people have been laid off (the number of people filing for unemployment numbers is high) and are truly afraid there won't be any opportunities to work in that period and things will remain this bad for longer than what more optimistic people think.

Are we also conflating residential and commercial properties when talking about that 40% figure? I think a lot of commercial properties have been closed and unable to make revenue for a while, which can explain why they aren't paying rent.
 

morqet

rising like a phoenix
Messages
2,585
Just to be clear, I support the ban on evictions. I do think the legislation is a bit lacking in "what comes next," but that's understandable given that no one knows what's coming next.

At the same time, I was disappointed to see the statistic that 40% of people do not intend to pay rent because there is no evidence that 40% of renters are that bad off (yet). Defaults will hurt everyone in the long run. Statistics like this are the reason landlords want to charge large security deposits, require rent upfront, etc. Hopefully the stat was exaggerated and common sense will prevail.

In the UK, 63% of households in private rent have no savings at all. The average housing in the PRS spends 41% of their income on housing costs. Then combine that with analysis that the young & low paid, ie those most likely to be renting, are being most affected. Lower earners have been twice as likely to lose their jobs as high earners, while 12% of under-30s report being unemployed because of this crisis, against 6% of those aged 40-55. Look at the Wealth & Assets survey to fully understand how precarious life is for many people, even those in employment, actually is. https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...ardsfinancialsecurityapril2018toseptember2019

One benefit of this crisis would be if it hastened the decline of cowboy buy to let landlords who don't plan for void periods, and we ended up with an institutionally invested and properly regulated rental sector.
 

Louis

Private citizen
Messages
17,243
Yes, housing cost is an enormous problem. That said, when the UK government is paying 80% of salary, up to 2500 GBP, why shouldn't people be expected to pay rent? People want to be made whole, but don't seem to believe that others should be made whole.

I think the governments are taking the right approach right now, but sooner or later, will need to decide what happens to all of this debt. If the landlords are left holding the bag, despite massive and unprecedented government assistance, expect all kinds of additional barriers to renting. One compromise may be to allow landlords to deduct, pound for pound (or dollar for dollar), all uncollected rent from their tax bill.
 

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