Pick the Best Ice dance team that won the OGM

Best ice dance team that won the OGM ?

  • Torvill /Dean

    Votes: 45 26.0%
  • Klimova/Ponomarenko

    Votes: 15 8.7%
  • Grishchuk/Platov (twice)

    Votes: 20 11.6%
  • Virtue/Moir (twice)

    Votes: 70 40.5%
  • Anissina/Peizerat

    Votes: 9 5.2%
  • Davis/White

    Votes: 14 8.1%
  • Bestemianova/Bukin

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Navka/Kostomarov

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Other

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    173
  • This poll will close: .

Vash01

Fan of Yuzuru, Three A's, T&M, P&C
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Tracy Wilson was such a bitter hater of G&P. She did an interview a few years ago and she seemed to have softened her stance a bit on them but she was still full of garbage in so many respects. She said that her concern with Memorial Requiem and why she preferred K&O's Carmen was because she preferred the British-style of ballroom ice dance (or something along those lines) where the emphasis was on content. But Memorial Requiem's content completely blew Carmen out of the water. In fact, I only had K&O in fourth for the FD behind G&P, A&P, and P&S because the content was pretty woeful whereas G&P, A&P, and P&S skated programs with much more seamless choreography and content.
Generally I loved K&O (particularly Masquerade Waltz) but I didn't care for their Carmen FD. The big problem was a long section in the middle when they did practically nothing. I didn't care the OTT expression either. I don't think I would have placed them as low as 4th (who was P&S?) but there was no doubt in my mind that G&P were absolutely the best in that Olympics.
 

gk_891

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,241
Generally I loved K&O (particularly Masquerade Waltz) but I didn't care for their Carmen FD. The big problem was a long section in the middle when they did practically nothing. I didn't care the OTT expression either. I don't think I would have placed them as low as 4th (who was P&S?) but there was no doubt in my mind that G&P were absolutely the best in that Olympics.

Punsulan & Swallow. And that surprises me as I'm not even a fan of them. But I definitely had P&S ahead of K&O in not only the free dance but also the Golden Waltz CD. I might also put them ahead in the Argentine Tango CD even though P&S had a small error in theirs. But they skated much closer together than K&O did and Krylova also skated her back crossrolls on back inside edges instead of back outside edges.
 

tony

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10,259
We've gotten into so many of these side-chats over the years, but North American media during the Olympics was trying hard to push B/K as something spectacular that year and in doing so, they were trashing pretty much everything else ahead of them. I remember a few years ago I rewatched the American and Canadian coverage back-to-back and it's pretty funny how above and beyond they went to try to discredit the other teams.

The only thing that irked me about Memorial was that lift towards the end- Platov always looked like he was struggling, and they had this awkward twist into the hold that was never quite 'on', but once they threw that in, it always looked the same. Otherwise, I think it's a masterpiece. Most people knew, even pre-IJS, that B/K's programs were not at all competitive with the other teams. I'm sure that Tracy was just told to be extra pro-American, but it's still disappointing that she carried on with the critiques because she absolutely was able to see that the intricacy wasn't there.
 

gk_891

Well-Known Member
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4,241
We've gotten into so many of these side-chats over the years, but North American media during the Olympics was trying hard to push B/K as something spectacular that year and in doing so, they were trashing pretty much everything else ahead of them. I remember a few years ago I rewatched the American and Canadian coverage back-to-back and it's pretty funny how above and beyond they went to try to discredit the other teams.

The only thing that irked me about Memorial was that lift towards the end- Platov always looked like he was struggling, and they had this awkward twist into the hold that was never quite 'on', but once they threw that in, it always looked the same. Otherwise, I think it's a masterpiece. Most people knew, even pre-IJS, that B/K's programs were not at all competitive with the other teams. I'm sure that Tracy was just told to be extra pro-American, but it's still disappointing that she carried on with the critiques because she absolutely was able to see that the intricacy wasn't there.

I'm also disappointed that Tracy Wilson ignored all of B&K's errors in the compulsory dances and made it seem like they skated cleanly. Because they didn't.
 

VGThuy

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35,376
I’m kind of glad I wasn’t into ice dance back in Nagano because I learned a lot about ice dance from Tracy with the 2002 NBC coverage. She must have had a weird bias against G/P that was almost personal.
 

gk_891

Well-Known Member
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4,241
I’m kind of glad I wasn’t into ice dance back in Nagano because I learned a lot about ice dance from Tracy with the 2002 NBC coverage. She must have had a weird bias against G/P that was almost personal.

Her idols were Torvill & Dean while she was allegedly a personal friend of Maia Usova. What is interesting though is that she showed none of the bias that she had against G&P towards Tatiana Navka even though Zhulin's affair with Navka was more instrumental to Usova & Zhulin's marriage breaking up than his affair with Grishuk did. And Navka & Kostomarov's programs had way less content (supposedly what Tracy Wilson she likes or so she claims) than Grishuk & Platov's did.

I remember at the 1997 Worlds on CTV, Tracy Wilson critized G&P's The Feeling Begins FD as skating really really fast and then posing. I couldn't believe what a filthy liar she was, especially since she had criticized them a year earlier for not phrasing the music well or holding their edges and positions which is what The Feeling Begins was all about.
 
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PRlady

Well-Known Member
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37,243
Well Grishuk is without question a diva personality, she’s hard to like as a person. Unsure if that has something to do with the animosity she attracts.

Me, I was totally in no technik back then but even I could tell that A/P were a better team than B/K.
 

gk_891

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,241
Well Grishuk is without question a diva personality, she’s hard to like as a person. Unsure if that has something to do with the animosity she attracts.

Me, I was totally in no technik back then but even I could tell that A/P were a better team than B/K.

It's almost shocking how superior A&P were to B&K. They never should've been close rivals. I also think A&P were quite a bit better than K&O as they skated programs with far more ambitious content and much softer/fluid handholds. If there was a team that would've rivalled Grishuk & Platov from 1996 to 1998, IMO that team should've been Anissina & Peizerat. Not Krylova & Ovsiannikov.
 
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UMBS Go Blue

Personally congratulating Beefy Bruno
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15,386

jenny12

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,335
Generally I loved K&O (particularly Masquerade Waltz) but I didn't care for their Carmen FD. The big problem was a long section in the middle when they did practically nothing. I didn't care the OTT expression either. I don't think I would have placed them as low as 4th (who was P&S?) but there was no doubt in my mind that G&P were absolutely the best in that Olympics.

Agreed, especially about K&O’s Carmen. And as over-the-top the Olympic version is, the Europeans version is even more hysterical. It legitimately looked like a satire of what people think dramatic Russian ice dancing is.

The part where he kicked her…🤣🤣🤣
 

gk_891

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,241
Agreed, especially about K&O’s Carmen. And as over-the-top the Olympic version is, the Europeans version is even more hysterical. It legitimately looked like a satire of what people think dramatic Russian ice dancing is.

The part where he kicked her…🤣🤣🤣

Russian ice dance teams very often over-emote in order to draw attention away from their flat edges and simple content. We saw it with Pakhamova & Gorshkov, Linichuk & Karponosov, Krylova & Ovsiannikov, etc. One team that was famous for over-emoting was Bestemianova & Bukin. But what's interesting about them is they had some truly awesome skating skills. This is very evident when you look at their compulsories as some of them are almost astonishingly good. But their free dances rarely demonstrated those same skills IMO. Other Russian teams that were technically good also employed the same over-emoting even though they didn't need to. I guess it just became a Russian tradition to skate like that, even if their programs had good content.
 

Immortelle

Rejected by Krasnopolski
Messages
1,671
I went for T/D because they completely changed the ice dance landscape, taking the single concept program idea and elevating it but maintaining a link to their audiences. The Paso Doble OSP was genius.

I’m also giving a shout out to Platov in 98, with all the Pasha BS going on, his knees got through Memorial. Legend.
 

VGThuy

Well-Known Member
Messages
35,376
Russian ice dance teams very often over-emote in order to draw attention away from their flat edges and simple content. We saw it with Pakhamova & Gorshkov, Linichuk & Karponosov, Krylova & Ovsiannikov, etc. One team that was famous for over-emoting was Bestemianova & Bukin. But what's interesting about them is they had some truly awesome skating skills. This is very evident when you look at their compulsories as some of them are almost astonishingly good. But their free dances rarely demonstrated those same skills IMO. Other Russian teams that were technically good also employed the same over-emoting even though they didn't need to. I guess it just became a Russian tradition to skate like that, even if their programs had good content.
I just posted an Olympic Ice Dance bronze medal poll and Dick Button was just saying something like that during O'Connor/Millns FD.
 

SmallFairy

#teamtrainwreck #teamjapan
Messages
12,932
I voted for K/P for sentimental reasons. Their Olympic 92 FD was the program that made me start to watch figure skating. I was 14, just occasionally turned on the TV to watch OG, and the broadcast was in the middle of the ice dance final. I was mesmerized. I couldn't stop watching them. I already loved Bach, and here it was the perfect mearge of all arts. So fluid, so original, so full of emotions. Thankfully it re-run later that evening and I could record it. That tape was played to pieces. From that moment on I was a figure skating fan, and watched the ladies competition with great interest. And from then on....:biggrinbo

I was very close to voting for A/P, they were so special, and G/P, Memorial was magic, it was for the ages. But it has to be K/P.
 

alchemy void

SLAY DAŠA!!!
Messages
26,374
Chryon goals....

aa.jpg
 
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Vash01

Fan of Yuzuru, Three A's, T&M, P&C
Messages
51,724
I just posted an Olympic Ice Dance bronze medal poll and Dick Button was just saying something like that during O'Connor/Millns FD.
I don't believe K&P or G&P had flat edges. Just watch their CDs. No one with flat edges can develop speed and technical difficulty.
 
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alchemy void

SLAY DAŠA!!!
Messages
26,374
Their Olympic 92 FD was the program that made me start to watch figure skating. I was 14, just occasionally turned on the TV to watch OG, and the broadcast was in the middle of the ice dance final. I was mesmerized. I couldn't stop watching them. I already loved Bach, and here it was the perfect mearge of all arts. So fluid, so original, so full of emotions.
That's definitely my favorite program on this list, by far. Despite not seeing it until the YouTube era, this is one of very few programs that literally gives me goosebumps upon each viewing.
 
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gk_891

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,241
I just posted an Olympic Ice Dance bronze medal poll and Dick Button was just saying something like that during O'Connor/Millns FD.

I could barely stand to watch teams like P&G and L&K because of those reasons. The worst though (for me anyways) might've been Zueva & Vitman. I found them almost intolerable to watch.
 

briancoogaert

Well-Known Member
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13,531
It is so difficult to pick one between T&D, K&P, G&P and V&M.
My favorite were G&P for their speed and the passion she put on every of their program, but technically, they are not as precise as K&P or T&D.
G&P for their speed and passion, T&D for their innovative programs, K&P for their pure technique and great elegance, V&M for their overall qualities. I don't know. Maybe T&D. ;)
 

gk_891

Well-Known Member
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4,241
It is so difficult to pick one between T&D, K&P, G&P and V&M.
My favorite were G&P for their speed and the passion she put on every of their program, but technically, they are not as precise as K&P or T&D.
G&P for their speed and passion, T&D for their innovative programs, K&P for their pure technique and great elegance, V&M for their overall qualities. I don't know. Maybe T&D. ;)

Torvill & Dean at their very peak always leave me in awe. Especially their compulsories.

What I find interesting about K&P was that they were so technically precise but some of their compulsories seemed to have had issues. Sometimes the patterns were a little on the smaller side. I remember watching footage of the 1987 Worlds and the first compulsory dance was the Westminster Waltz. When K&P skated theirs, the first pattern looked nicely done to my eyes but each time they repeated the pattern the circle they made on the ice kept getting smaller. And I remember Betty Calloway ripped them apart at the 1989 Europeans during the rhumba CD for their poor double choctaw. Their crossed open choctaw in the Kilian CD also looked kind of shallow. I wonder if it's because they lacked the power and glide that teams like Bestemianova & Bukin do. I know that you're an ice dancer. What are your thoughts on that? I'd love to hear your thoughts as I'm always trying to learn as much about ice dance as I can.
 
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VGThuy

Well-Known Member
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35,376
Torvill & Dean at their very peak always leave me in awe. Especially their compulsories.

What I find interesting about K&P was that they were so technically precise but some of their compulsories seemed to have had issues. Sometimes the patterns were a little on the smaller side. I remember watching footage of the 1987 Worlds and the first compulsory dance was the Westminster Waltz. When K&P skated theirs, the first pattern looked nicely done to my eyes but each time they repeated the pattern the circle they made on the ice kept getting smaller. And I remember Betty Calloway ripped them apart at the 1989 European during the rhumba CD for their poor double choctaw. Their crossed open choctaw in the Kilian CD also looked kind of shallow. I wonder if it's because they lacked the power and glide that teams like Bestemianova & Bukin do. I know that you're an ice dancer. What are your thoughts on that? I'd love to hear your thoughts as I'm always trying to learn as much about ice dance as I can.
It’s true. It was a bit baffling but it probably was due to the speed and power. When it came to raw power, Bestemianova/Bukin were incredible and you really saw it in their Killian. However, I think K/P had OSPs and FDs that showed an incredible display of complexity and skating skills that B/B’s programs didn’t come close to showing off. IMO, their exquisite “Carmen” FD displayed B/B’s strengths incredibly well and I actually like their 1986 FD as well. However, by 1987 their programs became more tedious and overwrought. But they still had speed speed and more speed. I think it was that sheer speed and power that made B/B look “commanding” that prevented K/P from ever overtaking them even though they supposedly were close in 1986 Worlds where apparently the FD was a 5/4 split. In a way the B/B v. K/P rivalry was the classic simplicity with huge power, speed, and aggression in the movement vs. elegance, complexity, and detail that may take a few multiple watches to fully appreciate.


I don't believe K&P or G&P had flat edges. Just watch their CDs. No one with flat edges can develop speed and technical difficulty.
K/P and G/P weren’t senior medal contenders in 1976, ;). @gk_891 clarified his post well in his response to you earlier in this thread.
 
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gk_891

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4,241
It’s true. It was a bit baffling but it probably was due to the speed and power. When it came to raw power, Bestemianova/Bukin were incredible and you really saw it in their Killian. However, I think K/P had OSPs and FDs that showed an incredible display of complexity and skating skills that B/B’s programs didn’t come close to showing off. IMO, their exquisite “Carmen” FD displayed B/B’s strengths incredibly well and I actually like their 1986 FD as well. However, by 1987 their programs became more tedious and overwrought. But they still had speed speed and more speed. I think it was that sheet speed and power that made B/B look “commanding” that prevented K/P from ever overtaking them even though they supposedly were close in 1986 Worlds where apparently the FD was a 5/4 split. In a way the B/B v. K/P rivalry was the classic simplicity with huge power, speed, and aggression in the movement vs. elegance, complexity, and detail that may take a few multiple watches to fully appreciate.



K/P and G/P weren’t senior medal contenders in 1976, ;). @gk_891 clarified his post well in his response to you earlier in this thread.

Bestemianova & Bukin really excelled at the compulsories it seemed. I remember watching their Westminster Waltz at the 1987 Worlds. While it was nowhere near as graceful or waltzy as their teammates (K&P and A&S), they traced out those patterns with such confidence. And unlike K&P, the size of their patterns with each repetition stayed consistent. They were also probably the only team to not lose any speed or flow after step 15 when the lady does an inside three turn. Many of the other teams very noticeably lose speed and flow after the inside three turn and so they have to push really hard on the progressive just before the widestep.

B&B also had an amazingly good Rhumba CD. Right after the widestep, they skate the left forward outside edge into the right back outside edge and then back onto the left forward outside edge with such ease and all taken equally wide. Whereas with K&P, their right back outside edge was not only slower than their left forward outside edge (at least the first one) but Marina doesn't look like she's on a right back outside edge. She looks like she's on the flat of her blade instead. Like we said, it's likely due to their lack of speed and power. At least relative to B&B.

It's also interesting to note that Grishuk & Platov were a team that was famous for their power and strength of stroke. But their double choctaw in the Rhumba CD was also very weak. At both the 1995 and 1997 Worlds, they skated the Rhumba CD and demonstrated tremendous speed, power, and strength of stroke throughout the dance except for the right back outside edge which was not only a little slow but I have my doubts that Oksana was even on a right back outside edge. Oksana also had an annoying tendency to jump some of her three turns which was (probably) a sign of being overzealous.
 
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sap5

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9,933
I don't think missing the double choctaw has to do with lack of speed and power. Tessa Virtue also was on a flat instead of a right back outside edge during the individual SD (and maybe also the team SD?) at the 2018 Olympics (she entered on a flat, then changed to the right back outside edge). You can see it best on the NBC footage, and in fact, Ben Agosto pointed it out on the US analysis show the night of the IE SD.
 

allezfred

Lipinski Stole My Catchphrase
Staff member
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Grishuk/Platov or go home, you’re drunk. Back to back Olympic gold medals, unbeaten in the interim AND most importantly memorable programmes.
 

gk_891

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4,241
Grishuk/Platov or go home, you’re drunk. Back to back Olympic gold medals, unbeaten in the interim AND most importantly memorable programmes.
G&P were absolutely amazing and they are my personal favourites. But you have to admit that during their Linichuk years, Linichuk often gave them very poor material. Their 1994 OD and 1996 FD were the standouts in that regard. They were capable of so much better.
 

Brenda_Bottems

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Grishuk/Platov or go home, you’re drunk. Back to back Olympic gold medals, unbeaten in the interim AND most importantly memorable programmes.
I regret to inform you the drunk one here is you,my dear.

Virtue+Moir have more World Championship medals,more Olympic Games medals and competed with a much higher degree of class and morality. Most importantly Virute+Moir never resorted to lurid sexcapades on and off the ice to achieve notoriety.

Miss Virtue is naturally enchanting and austere. No tawdry hair bleach or stunt naming here!

-BB
 

allezfred

Lipinski Stole My Catchphrase
Staff member
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I regret to inform you the drunk one here is you,my dear.

Virtue+Moir have more World Championship medals,more Olympic Games medals and competed with a much higher degree of class and morality. Most importantly Virute+Moir never resorted to lurid sexcapades on and off the ice to achieve notoriety.

Miss Virtue is naturally enchanting and austere. No tawdry hair bleach or stunt naming here!

-BB
I rest my case.
 

gk_891

Well-Known Member
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4,241
I regret to inform you the drunk one here is you,my dear.

Virtue+Moir have more World Championship medals,more Olympic Games medals and competed with a much higher degree of class and morality. Most importantly Virute+Moir never resorted to lurid sexcapades on and off the ice to achieve notoriety.

Miss Virtue is naturally enchanting and austere. No tawdry hair bleach or stunt naming here!

-BB
You can blame Alexander Zhulin for the lack of 'morality' and lurid sexcapades. For whatever reason, a lot of people pinned all of the blame on Grishuk whereas Zhulin and Navka remained unscathed for whatever reason.
 

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