NHK Trophy 2023 Womens SP - Madam Butt or Fly

peibeck

Simply looking
Messages
31,114
Overall I disagree with everyone saying it was a poor night of skating. Compared to other SPs we've seen this season it wasn't a splatfest. I was surprised at the amount of < calls. Some were quite obvious, but a few on replay looked more like a "q" to me. 🤷‍♂️

Most disappointed with Gubanova and her faux Leona program. Hopefully she can pull an Amber this week and claw her way up in the free. Great to see Mai back, and I'm happy her PCS kept her in the mix.

Thorngren seemed more reserved and nervous here than at SC, but somehow managed to rotate everything. Will be interesting how she handles the pressure of having the lead for the first time in a senior GP. :watch:
 

Coco

Rotating while Russian!
Messages
18,624
I thought Lindsey's solo flip was definitely close to underrotated. And by that I mean it was underrotated lol.
But I am not complaining.

I wish the ISU would put us out of our misery and require that the first jump in the combination and the solo triple must be from different categories, one toe assisted, one an edge jump.
 

Evgeniafan

Well-Known Member
Messages
395
I thought Lindsey's solo flip was definitely close to underrotated. And by that I mean it was underrotated lol.
But I am not complaining.

I wish the ISU would put us out of our misery and require that the first jump in the combination and the solo triple must be from different categories, one toe assisted, one an edge jump.
I wish they would do that too. Because few skaters have the correct edge on flip and Lutz so one jump is cheated. Plus salchow and loop are beautiful jumps we are hardly seeing in the short program.
 

tony

Throwing the (rule)book at them
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17,785
I thought Lindsey's solo flip was definitely close to underrotated. And by that I mean it was underrotated lol.
But I am not complaining.

I wish the ISU would put us out of our misery and require that the first jump in the combination and the solo triple must be from different categories, one toe assisted, one an edge jump.
Don't agree. The ISU technical panels just need to do their jobs and be realwith what they are seeing. Nobody can tell me they didn't see Lindsay's severe outside edge on the flip, that they never see Wakaba's outside edge, and they never see Kaori's inside edge on the Lutz, for starters. The 'e' kills not only the base value but sends the GOE down into -2 or -3 territory at best usually, and the panels just seem to want to avoid conflict by just not calling it (typically across the board).

If a skater can do a beautiful Lutz and a beautiful flip, they should be able to attempt and gain the maximum amount of points in the SP by doing so. By making everyone do almost the same thing, you're taking the strength away from those skaters and giving a benefit to the skaters who flutz or lip. Doesn't make sense to me.

I wish they would do that too. Because few skaters have the correct edge on flip and Lutz so one jump is cheated. Plus salchow and loop are beautiful jumps we are hardly seeing in the short program.
I think you meant done on the incorrect edge. But yeah, not like it matters much when panels always look the other way.

And before anyone starts with the 'well the panels only have one camera angle, it's not their fault' stuff, the most obvious offenders get away with it 99% of the time anyways because the panels choose to do so. Not because of any one-off camera angle.
 

Simone411

To Boldly Explore Figure Skating Around The World
Messages
19,631
@tony said:
Don't agree. The ISU technical panels just need to do their jobs and be realwith what they are seeing. Nobody can tell me they didn't see Lindsay's severe outside edge on the flip, that they never see Wakaba's outside edge, and they never see Kaori's inside edge on the Lutz, for starters. The 'e' kills not only the base value but sends the GOE down into -2 or -3 territory at best usually, and the panels just seem to want to avoid conflict by just not calling it (typically across the board).

This. And regarding the one camera angle thing. If we can see that Lindsey had a severe outside edge, Wakaba had an outside edge, and Kaori had an inside edge, then the judges maybe need to watch those replays that we get to see more closely because there is something wrong.

They show us the replays while the skaters are in the K&C waiting for their scores. Are we not seeing the same replays that they see or are the judges just being blind on purpose. I admit I don't know a lot of the technical stuff, but I'm learning. And I can also tell when there's an outside edge and an inside edge.

I found a glossary of figure skating terms on Wikipedia that I added to my skating directory. I've been reading it a lot lately, and it's really helping me to understand especially about the edges a lot better.

Maybe some of the judges should go over it. I'm putting a link here in case anyone wishes to take time and learn like I'm doing.

 

tony

Throwing the (rule)book at them
Messages
17,785
This. And regarding the one camera angle thing. If we can see that Lindsey had a severe outside edge, Wakaba had an outside edge, and Kaori had an inside edge, then the judges maybe need to watch those replays that we get to see more closely because there is something wrong.
Just clarifying here- the technical panel only gets one camera and angle for replays, and it’s a special ISU camera not used for broadcasts. They don’t see the replays that we see, although they can (and have) looked up at Jumbotrons and not even flinched at their miserable calling (ask @thvu - he’s seen it firsthand). Also, the judges cannot determine whether an entry edge was correct or not; it’s solely in the hands of the three members of the tech panel to come to an agreement upon.

But my argument still remains that the majority of skaters are very serious incorrect edge offenders, not an iffy ‘well maybe they did it correctly today’ type of thing. Saying that the camera angle given doesn’t give conclusive info time after time— I don’t buy it.
 

Theatregirl1122

Needs a nap
Messages
30,200
I am thrilled for Lindsey to be in first and would be thrilled if she were rotating her jumps reliably, but I said "oof" out loud at the landing of the 3T. I was shocked when it wasn't called under.
 

Holy Headband

chair of the Lee Sihyeong international fanclub
Messages
1,654
I vaguely remember Thorngren being viewed as an inferior version of Levito when she was a junior, but she's done more than Levito to round out her skating since turning senior and should be allowed to challenge for the top US woman spot in the future IMO. (Re. the jump tech issues being discussed here, they both have them.)
 

Jarrett

Go Mirai!
Messages
3,398
I vaguely remember Thorngren being viewed as an inferior version of Levito when she was a junior, but she's done more than Levito to round out her skating since turning senior and should be allowed to challenge for the top US woman spot in the future IMO. (Re. the jump tech issues being discussed here, they both have them.)
Imo she had a lot farther to go and still does. Two years ago it looked like she could have fallen and tripped at any moment of her program. Today she only did it once on a transition.

Lee is so disappointing. Major step backwards with how she is selling her programs this year. Did she have an injury some thing in the off season?
 

Karen-W

How long do we have to wait for GP assignments?
Messages
37,177
Imo she had a lot farther to go and still does. Two years ago it looked like she could have fallen and tripped at any moment of her program. Today she only did it once on a transition.
Lol - because Isabeau hasn't had similar issues in her programs this season???
 

Jarrett

Go Mirai!
Messages
3,398
Lol - because Isabeau hasn't had similar issues in her programs this season???
I’m not sure what you are referring to. I am just saying I still see her as an inferior version of levito. Not that isabeau is a 10 in pcs.
 

Rukia

A Southern, hot-blooded temperamental individual
Messages
21,911
I mean look, Thorngren has the presentation of the average Korean senior woman and her jumps go straight up and down with no flow out and kind of iffy rotation. But she also deserved to win the free.

Also I sat right behind the tech panel at skam. Their camera is in a awkward position some of the time. It is what it is.
 

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