NHK Trophy 2023 Womens SP - Madam Butt or Fly

Karen-W

How long do we have to wait for GP assignments?
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37,153
Haein - well, I thought we lost Ted there, but he was just silent during her entire program, even when she made the mistake on the sit spin exit. Weird. Not her best tonight either.
 

skatingguy

decently
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18,643
Lee, Haein 🇰🇷
Coach: Hyun Jung Chi
Music: Sirens, The Drink from God

3Lz+3T<
2A - tight landing
Fly Camel Spin 4

3F!q - lean/tight landing
Sit Spin 3 - stumbled out of the illusion exit

Ch Combo Spin 4
Step Sequence 3

Even right in front of the judges ending the program she was still blank faced. I don't get it with the music pounding away how you're not throwing everything at the judges at that moment.

62.93 = 3rd Place
 
Last edited:

Tak

Well-Known Member
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3,220
I do not remember the last time NHK had such a weak Japanese women's team.
They always did have one slot for "Up and Comers" (Yuna Aoki), but the other two slots were reserved for solid skaters. Admittedly, Mai Mihara without the injury, would have been a "solid" skater, but Wakaba Higuchi returning from a season off, certainly would not qualify.
It seems that this was planned beforehand with Pairs and Mens being the "featured" disciplines, both getting the coveted normal terrestrial broadcast channel coverage. Whereas, Women and Ice Dance Free only gets Broadcast Satellite channel coverage. It is a real shame that Miura/ Kihara could not participate due to Kihara injury.
 

Karen-W

How long do we have to wait for GP assignments?
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37,153
I'm pretty sure that Wakaba had to be a host pick as she was only guaranteed 1 GP assignment based on her previous Worlds results per the GP selection rules. As it turned out, all of the returning or split couple /teams did wind up with 2 assignments (Higuchi, Kagiyama, Peng/Wang, Hase/Volodin, and Smart/Dieck), but only Kagiyama was guaranteed 2 due to his Olympic silver.
 

skatingguy

decently
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18,643
Just waking up to Thorngren in first. Understand the competition wasn`t up to snuff. But, Thorngren has improved so much in two years. From gawky to lovely lines and positions. She got away with the combo today. Does anyone know why she comes to a dead stop after the Lz? Must make it hard to get up for the toe.
As you pointed out she got away with the combo today to a certain extent, and a skater is not going to maintain speed/flow on a jump with rotation hook on it, so he kind of slows to a crawl before continuing the combination.
 

Wyliefan

Ubering juniors against my will
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44,325
Was Ted smoking something last night? During Ava's skate, he kept repeating "65.07, 65.07" until my sleepy mind got confused and thought it was the score she needed for first, instead of her SB (and I had put my phone away for the night, so I couldn't check and refresh my memory). Who DOES that? :lol:
 

Colonel Green

Well-Known Member
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13,953
🇯🇵 Aoki - can’t remember seeing her before. Especially with the advent of the q call, I’m surprised anyone is still trying loop combinations. Solid skate.

🇰🇷 Wi - she’s had some struggles in senior, this was an improvement. Felt a bit undermarked.

🇳🇱 Van Zundert - she hasn’t really progressed since her emergence a few years ago.

🇫🇷 Serna - iffy at points, but still an improvement on how she would usually skate a few years ago.

🇺🇸 Ziegler - great height on the jumps, landings a work in progress. I watched Daleman melt down to this song a few too many times to fully appreciate this program.

🇯🇵 Higuchi - Ted accidentally called her flip a Lutz at first, which I wish I could take as snarky commentary on her edge. But in any case: :gallopin1 Sigh, Wakaba.

🇧🇪 Pinzarrone - not a lot of jump GOE, which is fair, but very solid work. Very snappy spin exits, which stands out because so many ladies can’t do them like that. Is Belgium the new Russia?

🇺🇸 Thorngren - that combination was at a virtual standstill, but she made it work. Great steps. Music choice is ehh, but the judges really go for her, which is notable because this event is mostly being scored like it’s Japanese nationals (which is to say, low).

🇬🇪 Gubanova - I actually quite like this program, but the judges seem kind of over her. Costly jump error.

🇯🇵 Mihara - the program doesn’t measure up to Mariah Bell’s version, especially in its use of the climactic pause, but great to see her skating pretty well.

🇰🇷 Kim - what is up with her this year? Her trademark floaty landings are nowhere in sight.

🇰🇷 Lee - still looking unusually unpolished in many respects, but this was better than before. Dramatic finale. With how the rest of the field looks here, she may yet escape the World Medal But No Grand Prix Medal Club.
 

Private Citizen

"PC." Pronouns: none/none
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2,394
Ziegler, Ava Marie 🇺🇸
Coach: Oleg Makarov, Larisa Selezneva
Music: Jazz Man by B. Hart, J. Carlos

Is this a coaching change for Ava Ziegler? I agree with an earlier poster that her jumps are out of control, very springy but wild. Her mom / coach, Tricia Mansfield, had similar jumps back in the day. I've wondered whether a different coach might be able to tweak her jumps to make them more stable.

Nice job by Thorngren. Lucky on the calling. All of her jumps are somewhat squatty and prone to < calls, and she was extremely lucky to get by with only a ! on the flip. I'm not sure why she risks an "e" call instead of going for a loop.

And, yes, I never want to see an illusion again. Illusions on the exit seem even worse than on the entrance (which was fortunately removed as a feature). It's beyond time to require a level 1 spin, judged only on quality, in both the short program and the free skate. Minimum eight revolutions with no change of position. I want to see Nikodinov-style laybacks again. Or a cannonball sit held for 8+ revolutions (I guess that'd be a level 2 technically). Or just a stretched camel held forever.
 

PRlady

Cowardly admin
Staff member
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46,385
Watched on replay. Really happy for Thorngren. She needs two things: more audience connection, difficult for an introvert but absolutely necessary when the top skater in your country is Isabeau. And better jump landings. But her stretch and positions are lovely and going into the jumps she’s a lot more appealing than Levito.

Good for Ava as well but I want her to spend time with Rafe to get those jumps more secure. Expression is NOT her problem!

Mai was the nicest to watch, she skated that with joy and freedom. With a 3-3 should lead, rightfully.

Nina was good but has a ways to go in maturity and jump technique.

No one else of note, unfortunately.
 

victorskid

Happily ignoring ultracrepidarians (& trolls)!
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12,333
I too watched "after the fact" - the SP results
1Lindsay THORNGREN
usa.gif
USA
68.9338.7431.197.897.687.891.00#8
2Nina PINZARRONE
bel.gif
BEL
63.4433.2830.167.687.617.390.00#7
3Haein LEE
kor.gif
KOR
62.9330.3032.638.258.148.140.00#12
4Mai MIHARA
jpn.gif
JPN
62.8230.0032.828.258.188.250.00#10
5Ava Marie ZIEGLER
usa.gif
USA
62.0432.1929.857.547.547.360.00#5
6Seoyeong WI
kor.gif
KOR
60.6333.1827.456.936.647.070.00#2
7Yelim KIM
kor.gif
KOR
59.3326.9932.348.147.968.210.00#11
8Yuna AOKI
jpn.gif
JPN
58.2829.6828.607.187.147.180.00#1
9Lea SERNA
fra.gif
FRA
56.8528.6828.177.117.077.000.00#4
10Anastasiia GUBANOVA
geo.gif
GEO
55.8025.3030.507.617.577.750.00#9
11Wakaba HIGUCHI
jpn.gif
JPN
52.1823.1630.027.547.327.711.00#6
12Lindsay VAN ZUNDERT
ned.gif
NED
43.4618.7325.736.466.466.431.00#3
 

AYS

🌻
Messages
24,665
That was a lovely performance by Lindsay, which I didn't expect based on the pbp comments. She is steadily progressing. She may have lacked speed on the landing in the combo, but she rotated everything. I really enjoy her skating, the positions and flow are beautiful.
 

AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)

The Harem is now taking applications 😝
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That was a lovely performance by Lindsay, which I didn't expect based on the pbp comments. She is steadily progressing. She may have lacked speed on the landing in the combo, but she rotated everything. I really enjoy her skating, the positions and flow are beautiful.

lovely to watch. Wish she could come out of her introvertedness and I’d be even more invested.
 

honey

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,293
That was a lovely performance by Lindsay, which I didn't expect based on the pbp comments. She is steadily progressing. She may have lacked speed on the landing in the combo, but she rotated everything. I really enjoy her skating, the positions and flow are beautiful.
It was a beautiful skate but debatable whether she actually rotated everything. A little odd that she basically got a free pass on some questionable jumps while the panel went to town on everyone else. I think the lutz was fine, the toe I thought was at least q. The flip edge looked fully outside to me and I’d also at least have gone q if not full under.

She’s going to be a skater that is always at the mercy of a panel because of her jumps unless she does something to address that. Zero speed out of the jumps is never going to make combo’s easy. The technique is not so terrible that it’s unfixable, but there is work to be done. I’m sure she’s aware of this though.

She has made so much progress in skating skills and presentation and I thought it was truly a beautiful skate today. I’d still have her first right now, but not by the lead she has.
 

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