NFL Bans Kneeling

hanca

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Gonna have to figure out how to support the NBA.

NBA commissioner says players should use their influence to affect political and social change and not just stick to sports.
Kids looks up to these athletes. They should use their position for good.

https://www.axios.com/nba-commissio...ing-30af2f9c-b6fe-4ab3-877b-fb717a72f716.html
I guess the players can use their influence to affect political and social change in their own free time. When they are working, they are representing organisation and the employer.
When I am working, I adhere to the dress code set by my employer, I am expressing opinions that are opinions of the organisation and not necessarily same as my personal opinions, and I behave the way my employer set as acceptable and don’t do whatever I feel like doing. If I feel like screaming, jumping or kicking, I will wait until I am off work and then I can do whatever I want to. At work I am professional.
 

Skittl1321

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I guess the players can use their influence to affect political and social change in their own free time. When they are working, they are representing organisation and the employer.
When I am working, I adhere to the dress code set by my employer, I am expressing opinions that are opinions of the organisation and not necessarily same as my personal opinions, and I behave the way my employer set as acceptable and don’t do whatever I feel like doing. If I feel like screaming, jumping or kicking, I will wait until I am off work and then I can do whatever I want to. At work I am professional.

I'm not unionized, but players are. If you look at the history of labor in this country there are some horrible abuses. There are times to stand up for what is right, it's up to the players if there is more they want to do. The NFL may be their employer, but it can't exist without players.

Being forced to be "patriotic" is absurd. There are limits to what an employer can require, it will be interesting to see if it is tested in court if this is beyond that or not. (Perhaps not since the locker room option exists. I hope many players take it.)
 

NinjaTurtles

No lamb chop, so don’t you fork my peas
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Well, they say if one person does it, it's choosing not to spend money there. So technically I'm not "boycotting" Wal-mart either. But my husband does watch the NFL and I'm in the room with him most of the time and I used to play Fantasy Football. I stopped playing when I got disgusted with the NFL over domestic abuse but started watching more when it seemed like they were going to stand up Trump and stand with their players.


Actually neither of those is true. Events at a stadium do have a say in the rules including when concessions are sold and many teams have revenue sharing arrangements with the stadiums they play out and so do see some revenue.

That said, I think this is about control and not about the flag.

Of course, but the individual teams are not exactly the same thing as the NFL itself. The League doesn’t get the revenue (not including ticket sales) or set the rules for stadium operations.

The NFL controls the technology in the locker rooms and sidelines arrangements, but that’s about it in terms of the stadium itself.

I agree it’s not about the flag.

Owners have plenty of influence at the stadiums. They could pause for 120-140 seconds. Some might, but most don't.

Yes, some individual owners could. My point is The League doesn’t have a say or cut. Money from concessions is largely meaningless to the NFL.

Unrelated, but I’m really surprised that Kaepernick’s girlfriend doesn’t get more attention or recognition for pushing him to be more of an activist. She’s allegedly the impetus for the whole movement.
 

hanca

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I'm not unionized, but players are. If you look at the history of labor in this country there are some horrible abuses. There are times to stand up for what is right, it's up to the players if there is more they want to do. The NFL may be their employer, but it can't exist without players.

Being forced to be "patriotic" is absurd. There are limits to what an employer can require, it will be interesting to see if it is tested in court if this is beyond that or not. (Perhaps not since the locker room option exists. I hope many players take it.)
I don’t think being unionised has anything do to with it. I am in union and yet I have to adhere to the expected behaviour and clothes while I am working. I also don’t think it can be considered as forcing some being patriotic. The employer is not telling them to be patriotic in their off work life; it only tells them what to do when working. And that’s the employer’s right.

Your statement that TFL can’t coexist without players - you may find out that it is them needing TFL more than TFL needing them. There is lots of players, but not all of them will be willing to fight for this issue, which makes those who will fight more vulnerable. Everyone is replacable. And fighting for the issue would cost them money (lost earnings) and even though none of the players are financially struggling, you may find out that they are not willing to lose those hundred thousands per week they are getting.
 

NinjaTurtles

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I don’t think being unionised has anything do to with it. I am in union and yet I have to adhere to the expected behaviour and clothes while I am working. I also don’t think it can be considered as forcing some being patriotic. The employer is not telling them to be patriotic in their off work life; it only tells them what to do when working. And that’s the employer’s right.

The NFL has precedent in being able to punish the players for their behavior outside of what’s traditionally thought of as their place of work. Not necessarily issues surrounding patriotism, but anything they deem “conduct detrimental to the integrity of and public confidence in the National Football League.” The CBA controls the players everyday, every moment almost. They have very little separation from work and personal time.
 

MacMadame

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Which is why people say "I couldn't do that at my job" I say it's a false equivalence because their jobs are so very different from ours in that part of why they are hired is because of their public image / persona.
 

Artistic Skaters

Drawing Figures
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I take issue with the hypocritical priorities of the owners. They are oh so offended by the kneeling for the national anthem that of course it has to be the most important priority. They don't have nearly as much time to address domestic violence & thug issues like torture/abuse of animals by their valuable players. Expecting Redskins cheerleaders to sit on the laps of big sponsors during the "open" (aka ogling) photo shoots & other such harassment events planned by their organizations haven't even made their offensiveness radar yet.
 

Artistic Skaters

Drawing Figures
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*** Jerry Jones: President made it clear that he wasn’t letting anthem issue go :
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...-clear-that-he-wasnt-letting-anthem-issue-go/
The first snippets of testimony have emerged from the depositions taken in the Colin Kaepernick collusion grievance. And it’s becoming even more obvious that the NFL changed its anthem policy at the direct behest of the President. Cowboys owner Jerry Jones, while testifying in the Kaepernick collusion grievance, shared the details of a phone call with the President.

This is a very winning, strong issue for me,” the President told Jones, according to Andrew Beaton of the Wall Street Journal. “Tell everybody, you can’t win this one. This one lifts me.”
Regardless of whether it’s rooted in fact, owners have chosen to believe that the protests are bad for business, in large part because the President had chosen to continue to stir up his base by chastising the NFL for allowing the protests. Which not only suggests that collusion arising from a mutual desire to placate the President may be influencing the ongoing unemployment of Kaepernick and Eric Reid, but also potentially bolsters the opinion of attorney Mark Geragos that the President may have run afoul of federal law by interfering with private employment decisions for political reasons.
ETA: This is the law Geragos has referenced in Kaepernick's civil case; and he claims in interviews he has a deposition from an owner who said he changed his mind about hiring Kaepernick because of Trump, besides the other statements that have been reported.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/227
 
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topaz

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Speaking of Jerry Jones, thoughts on his approach to the protests? The Cowboys as a team, including Jerry and the coaches, all linked arms and took a knee before the Anthem.

It was strictly PR for Jerry Jones. he opposes it because it hurts his bottom line.

https://sportsday.dallasnews.com/da...ynch-sits-national-anthem-dallas-cowboys-game

: "I think there's certainly resolve and I can assure the issue is getting the very best of every owner and the very best look at all our constituencies with an eye first and foremost to our fans. That's No. 1. We know our fans want us to zero in on football, and they don't want to think about or think that we're thinking about anything other than football. That's certainly is my take on the spirit of the group."

Cowboys owner Jerry Jones threatened at one point in the season to bench any player who "disrespected" the flag. Jones did join the team kneeling before the Arizona game in September as a show of unity, he said. All Cowboys were standing by anthem time.

They see any form protest as a disrespect to the "flag". They ignore any of the reasons WHY the players protest, i.e they ignore the systemic racism the players themselves face. The US has a long history of economic exploitation of African Americans. Basically what Jones and others are saying is that they don't care about the players lives off the field. They don't care they are oppressed on and off the field. They don't really care about the players as persons themselves. They only care about being entertained by black people without any thought, or conscience thought the persons themselves. We all know the US has centuries of experience at this.
 
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Artistic Skaters

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*** Fox News apologizes for using 'unrelated footage' of Philadelphia Eagles kneeling during White House coverage :
http://www.pennlive.com/philadelphiaeagles/index.ssf/2018/06/fox_news_apologizes_for_using.html
Fox News apologized Tuesday for using photos of Philadelphia Eagles kneeling in prayer in a context that implied they were kneeling during the national anthem.
Fox misrepresented players praying to further the cause, but I wonder if they showed the footage of the very patriotic President not able to sing the words of the very patriotic songs or keep his hand over his very patriotic heart during his very patriotic alternative event he held in place of the Eagles.
 

Susan1

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......... but I wonder if they showed the footage of the very patriotic President not able to sing the words of the very patriotic songs or keep his hand over his very patriotic heart during his very patriotic alternative event he held in place of the Eagles.

Since I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere else - they couldn't have printed out the words for him to learn beforehand? I guess a teleprompter would have been too obvious. He got through the first couple lines of God Bless America, but he faltered at "stand beside HER". I swear it looked like his lips were forming "stand beside "ME" " (typical), and then he gave up singing when he realized the song was not about him.
 

Dr.Siouxs

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Yep. Those uppity blacks need to shut up and just be grateful. This is just the latest in a long history of actions that occurred because people wanted to shut black people up.

Wow,this is low-level race mongering, even for you. Why do you act like all black athletes support the kneeling? What about those offended by it? Funny how you don't acknowledge THEIR voice. Minority groups are not monoliths, you better learn this lesson sooner or later. :rolleyes:

Everyone is free to express their political beliefs--but not while they are representing a company.
 

ballettmaus

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*** Fox News apologizes for using 'unrelated footage' of Philadelphia Eagles kneeling during White House coverage :
http://www.pennlive.com/philadelphiaeagles/index.ssf/2018/06/fox_news_apologizes_for_using.html

Fox misrepresented players praying to further the cause, but I wonder if they showed the footage of the very patriotic President not able to sing the words of the very patriotic songs or keep his hand over his very patriotic heart during his very patriotic alternative event he held in place of the Eagles.

What I love the most about this is that there the players are, kneeling to pray before a game and not a single person seems to find the kneeling disrespectful and take issue with it. You would think that if kneeling is considered respectful enough to do when addressing God, it'll do for the US Anthem as well.
 

el henry

#WeAllWeGot #WeAllWeNeed
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Let's talk about the only team that matters here, the Super Bowl World Champion Philadelphia Eagles:rollin::saint::cheer2: (God, I love saying that)Every African American player on the Eagles, whether or not they chose to kneel themselves (and they did not) supported the players who did kneel. In fact, as far as I know, all the other players did too.

That's not racism, that's facts, unless you point me to public information to the contrary. And I bet I have read more about the Eagles than almost anyone here.;)

Excluding all the folks of the Caucasian persuasion in dockers and khakis (my people:lol:) in a crowd of alleged Eagles fans at the WH who couldn't name the Eagles' Super Bowl MVP quarterback. Sad! Although God bless the guy who took the knee at that faux-ceremony.

But the absolute best article was in the NY Times:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/06/opinion/philly-doesnt-care-what-trump-says-about-the-eagles.html

"This is a metro area of diverse factions, from the South Philadelphia union Democrats to blue-blood Main Line Republicans. We argue about everything. What we never disagree on is religion. Because all Philadelphians practice the same faith. We all worship the N.F.L. champion Eagles."

:respec:
 

Aussie Willy

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Wow,this is low-level race mongering, even for you. Why do you act like all black athletes support the kneeling? What about those offended by it? Funny how you don't acknowledge THEIR voice. Minority groups are not monoliths, you better learn this lesson sooner or later. :rolleyes:

Everyone is free to express their political beliefs--but not while they are representing a company.
I think they were being sarcastic, not racist.
 

Artistic Skaters

Drawing Figures
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*** NFL players who kneel during anthem aren't unpatriotic, most voters say :
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nfl-players-who-kneel-during-anthem-arent-unpatriotic-most-voters-say/
A majority of voters don't believe NFL players who kneel during the national anthem to protest police shootings of unarmed black men are unpatriotic, according to a new Quinnipiac University poll. President Trump has highlighted the controversy for months now, suggesting players who kneel are disrespectful of the flag and perhaps should go elsewhere if they don't like the U.S.
 

MacMadame

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I think Trump has shown how dangerous he can be with this whole situation. He pressured the NFL owners to "do something" and when they did, he took to Twitter to up the ante. Now it's not just kneeling that is unpatriotic. It's staying in the locker room!

I wasn't really worried for democracy with his election. I thought our checks and balances would be enough. (I knew he could do damage but I was thinking more to the environment and the poor and things like that.) Now I am worried.
 

SophieLees

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I agree with this. While I am at work, I am representing the firm and behave the way the firm expects me to behave. When I am off work, I can do whatever I want to. The players are working, so they should present the way they are asked. If the employer says they will be standing while the anthem is playing, they should be standing. If not, they can find an employer who will not have requirements which they disagree with.

I agree with you 100%! And to accomadate their employees, the employer in this situation modified the rules to give players a way to protest.
 

SophieLees

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Which is why people say "I couldn't do that at my job" I say it's a false equivalence because their jobs are so very different from ours in that part of why they are hired is because of their public image / persona.

But it is still just a job
 

SophieLees

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What I love the most about this is that there the players are, kneeling to pray before a game and not a single person seems to find the kneeling disrespectful and take issue with it. You would think that if kneeling is considered respectful enough to do when addressing God, it'll do for the US Anthem as well.

I guess you just don’t understand American traditions.
 

ballettmaus

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There are people who are posting tweets documenting how they're destroying their Nike clothes. There are guys burning their shoes. Because they made Kaepernick the face of their ad campaign. I'm staring open-mouthed and wonder just how stupid you can get. (Obviously very).

That aside, I'm absolutely loving the ad!
 
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Japanfan

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they couldn't have printed out the words for him to learn beforehand?

There is an assumption here that the man is capable of learning. I think his capacity for that is rather compromised, in part because he is stupid (I do think he is at best average in inteligence) and in part because he has a very limited attention span.

He can't spell his own wife's name right or write a coherent tweet. Reading is therefore probably a bit challenging for him - which is a very scary thought.
 

FiveRinger

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There is an assumption here that the man is capable of learning. I think his capacity for that is rather compromised, in part because he is stupid (I do think he is at best average in inteligence) and in part because he has a very limited attention span.

He can't spell his own wife's name right or write a coherent tweet. Reading is therefore probably a bit challenging for him - which is a very scary thought.
He makes G W Bush and Dan Quayle look like members of Mensa.
 

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