News & Experiences continued

Louis

Private citizen
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17,745
I have no problem with people who choose to wear masks in their personal lives -- e.g., to the supermarket or on a train or plane.

I have problems with people who deny that masks have adverse effects, both on the wearer and others. I disagree that masking is a part of a "culture of consideration," or that cultures where voluntarily masking is higher are somehow more considerate. There are multiple considerations, but the mask-o-philes only see one.
 

Dai's Blues for Klook

Well-Known Member
Messages
976
I have no problem with people who choose to wear masks in their personal lives -- e.g., to the supermarket or on a train or plane.

I have problems with people who deny that masks have adverse effects, both on the wearer and others. I disagree that masking is a part of a "culture of consideration," or that cultures where voluntarily masking is higher are somehow more considerate. There are multiple considerations, but the mask-o-philes only see one.
Why are people wearing their own masks and not forcing anyone else to do so not more considerate? What are the "multiple considerations"?

The "hard of hearing/deaf" one is just funny to me, because those people will still be hard of hearing or deaf even if you speak to them without the mask.

Also it doesn't really matter if you find them considerate or inconsiderate 🤷‍♂️ Maybe you can argue the word is thrown about to bully people and/or make them feel bad about it, but simple fact is, places like Japan already did have their own bad experience with SARS, and actually searching on the internet indicates it started even before that. Japanese people wearing a mask is definitely pretty much "cultural" at this point.
 
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jeffisjeff

Well-Known Member
Messages
16,596
I'm confused. Now Louis has a problem with other people choosing to mask as well? I thought he was all about PERSONAL FREEDOM.
Well, it fits a pretty typical pattern from the extreme right. First they are opposed to something and then they gradually move to wanting to ban that thing outright for everyone. Just look at what has happened with health education or books. First they wanted the option to opt their kids out of certain health-related topics or from reading certain books. But now they want to ban them outright. Despite their claims, it has NEVER been about freedom.
 
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Louis

Private citizen
Messages
17,745
Why are people wearing their own masks and not forcing anyone else to do so not more considerate? What are the "multiple considerations"?

I can't believe we have to go down this rabbit hole again, but
1) deaf, hard of hearing, people who rely on lip reading
2) foreign language speakers
3) children's education and development
4) difficulty in reading body language or emotion

I don't believe anyone is being considerate to me when they wear a mask. They're being selfish, which is their right, but let's call a spade a spade. Their mask is not protecting me, but it is making it difficult for me to understand them and read their emotion or body language. Those who wear a mask have consideration primarily for their own health (i.e., they don't want to get sick), and they don't care if their mask affects me or anyone else, including the disabled.

The "hard of hearing/deaf" one is just funny to me, because they'll still be hard of hearing or deaf even if you speak to them without the mask.

Many people (both deaf and otherwise) lip read to an extent, and masks muffle sound for those who are hard of hearing. I find it torturous to speak or understand foreign languages - even ones where I ordinarily have proficiency - in a mask. Months of attempting to do so did not make things any better.
 

Dai's Blues for Klook

Well-Known Member
Messages
976
1) deaf, hard of hearing, people who rely on lip reading

2) foreign language speakers


Many people (both deaf and otherwise) lip read to an extent, and masks muffle sound for those who are hard of hearing. I find it torturous to speak or understand foreign languages - even ones where I ordinarily have proficiency - in a mask. Months of attempting to do so did not make things any better.
Agree that it will be harder for them. I do not accept that it is less considerate to wear a mask around them. It is neither considerate nor inconsiderate. I don't enunciate my way through every word for the sake of everyone around me who might be hard of hearing or deaf, and there are a lot of people who mumble, so on. This is the simple truth, one I'm sure you understand very well.

3) children's education and development
Definitely don't understand this one, please expound.

4) difficulty in reading body language or emotion
Reading FACIAL expression, not body language, unless masks are somehow affecting the rest of your body. Same thing I said for 1) and 2) applies here. I don't display my emotions for anyone else's benefit, nor is there any one typical manner to be expressing emotions.

It is not black and white. If you posit that Japan doesn't necessarily have a culture of consideration, well, it doesn't mean they're doing anything inconsiderate either. If you reject morality, the opposite isn't necessarily immorality. It can simply belong to an amoral ground.

If you just mean to say it is "not considerate" but not necessarily "inconsiderate" then okay.
 

Susan1

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,877
Japanese people wearing a mask is definitely pretty much "cultural" at this point.
Yeah, every cold and flu season, they have shown the people in Japan walking around with masks on for years. People wearing masks are why our cold and flu season was not as bad the last couple years. The US can go by Australia's flu season 6 months before ours. They had their worse flu season in five years. No masks and no immunity built up.
 

Hedwig

WoolSilk Fanatic
Messages
20,565
I especially wear a mask when I have a cold. Not for me but for others and I wish other people would as well. Not like the guy in the supermarket before me coughing and telling the teller that he barely made it out of bed but wanted to buy stuff :rolleyes:

I wear masks in public transport and shopping regardless of how I feel. I don't wear it at work anymore, unless I do not feel well.

There is a mixture of self care and care for others that we all have in different ways. For some even the slightest bit of caring for others is too much and that are most often the ones cryint the loudest about personal responsibility.

I am very fed up with a lot of people, be it covid or climate crisis.
 

sk8pics

Well-Known Member
Messages
10,201
I am trying to arrange a get together with a couple of friends I have not seen in a year. Or maybe more. They had not gotten vaccinated last time I heard, about a year ago, because “they had it” and because they were trying to get pregnant. Now she’s pregnant and due in early October. I have no idea if they ever got vaccinated. I broached the topic with them by saying I’d love to see their new house and if they are not vaccinated I will wear a mask inside with them, in order to protect her health and also to protect myself since I’m having minor surgery in a few weeks. Hoping I did not offend them.
 

Susan1

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,877
Thursday

From a different article - "The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has raised its COVID-19 community level to "high" for a cluster of Northeast Ohio counties, including Stark, Wayne, Portage and Tuscarawas counties." (counties southeast of Cleveland)
 

antmanb

Well-Known Member
Messages
12,349
I've been trying to research how long the vaccines last. I had Astra Zeneca shot 1 in April 2021, Astra Zeneca shot 2 in late June 2021 and then Pfizer booster shot 3 in December 2021.

The UK government are only rolling the second booster (4th shot) out to over 50s....so kids, and over 50s will all get protection but anyone 18-49 is shit out of luck for the winter? Last winter the booster shots were rushed through because WINTER!! But now apparently there's nothing to worry about?

I've had Covid twice now - both times incredibly mild symptoms but both times I was under the effects of the vaccines. I'm baffled by the government's approach and vaguely annoyed that I can't opt to have the 4th shot.
 

skategal

Bunny mama
Messages
10,012
I've been trying to research how long the vaccines last. I had Astra Zeneca shot 1 in April 2021, Astra Zeneca shot 2 in late June 2021 and then Pfizer booster shot 3 in December 2021.

The UK government are only rolling the second booster (4th shot) out to over 50s....so kids, and over 50s will all get protection but anyone 18-49 is shit out of luck for the winter? Last winter the booster shots were rushed through because WINTER!! But now apparently there's nothing to worry about?

I've had Covid twice now - both times incredibly mild symptoms but both times I was under the effects of the vaccines. I'm baffled by the government's approach and vaguely annoyed that I can't opt to have the 4th shot.
When did you last have Covid?

Research coming out now is saying that having 2 vaccines plus Covid offers the same protection as having 3 vaccines.

I assume it would be the same for subsequent doses as well.

Canada has recommended waiting 6 months after having Covid to get a booster based on this research.

If it has been 6 months since you had Covid, you could benefit from getting your booster.
 

antmanb

Well-Known Member
Messages
12,349
I had Covid the end of May and can get my 4th shot the end of November so you should be okay until December but if they open up earlier than that for you, for sure get it.
There's no indication at all that the UK government will open up further booster for under 50s yet.

I'm guessing if there is some huge spike when the weather gets colder they might backtrack. The previous government you could almost guarantee a u-turn on most things, we'll see what this government is like.
 

AJ Skatefan

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,781
I’m in Morocco now and it’s like Covid is over. No masks and they said they only are having 10 cases a day in the whole country. They had a hard lockdown the first year and much of life takes place out of doors. I’m thinking that that’s why they’re doing so well with it. People I’ve talked to don’t know anyone who have had Covid and they look surprised when I tell them that I’m going to get my fifth shot when I get home. I don’t think they’re getting boosters here. Just the two and then back to normal life.

Of course this is just what I’ve been told by regular people I’ve met.
 
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alexikeguchi

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,049
I’m in Morocco now and it’s like Covid is over. No masks and they said they only are having 10 cases a day in the whole country. They had a hard lockdown the first year and much of life takes place out of doors. I’m thinking that that’s why they’re doing so well with it. People I’ve talked to don’t know anyone who have had Covid and they look surprised when I tell them that I’m going to get my fifth shot when I get home. I don’t think they’re getting boosters here. Just the two and then back to normal life.

Of course this is just what I’ve been told by regular people I’ve met.
That's how life is in both the countries I've visited in the past year. I went to Tanzania 12/2021 and just got back from Oman about two weeks ago. In both places, the climate is favorable for most of life to take place outdoors, the population is young and fit, and the low density in most areas allows for natural social distancing. I also didn't meet anyone who had heard of an actual case.
 

Dobre

Well-Known Member
Messages
13,818
At least three people I know have had it since the start of the school year. (None of whom followed the masking afterward recommendation. Le sigh).
 

KCC

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,380
A friend's wife is still in the hospital, a week now after getting covid (second bout with covid; she is also vaccinated but im not sure about boosters). She is in her late 70's and has heart issues (but seemed otherwise pretty active and sharp) and covid just put her over the top. It is still hard on some people with health conditions.
 

MacMadame

Doing all the things
Messages
49,895
Two takes on "the pandemic is over"

Analysis:

Agreement:
https://wapo.st/3DZublo (gifted)

An interesting perspective on what these terms (pandemic, endemic) mean
 

skatfan

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,905
A pandemic means the world, not just one country. Biden saying it is over ignores all the other countries. That said there are no firm criteria for case rates, etc.
 

once_upon

Believer in woman's right to own healthcare decisi
Messages
23,119
A pandemic means the world, not just one country. Biden saying it is over ignores all the other countries. That said there are no firm criteria for case rates, etc.
The confusion i believe surround the words: pandemic, endemic, epidemic: and how they are defined. There doesn't seem to be concensus on what those definitions are. How one defines pandemic - is it world wide or is it a cluster of countries. Or endemic when the disease becomes a consistent rate of infection with mortality/morbidity rates stable in particular area of the world. I believe it is possible for a disease to be both pandemic and endemic at the same time.

Malaria could be an example of a disease that can be both. It can be considered pandemic in areas of Africa because it is exceedingly high rates across an area. But endemic in others because the rates of infection stay low and within parameters that would be expected for that particular area. Which doesn't mean that it can't quickly become pandemic in those countries too.

It's quite confusing and no real standard on definition of terms. Because of international travel, the novel virus attributes, and lack of vaccination equality in the world it will be hard to have a distinctive definition for Covid.

I believe Portugal has high immunization rates. making a wide spread rapid rate of infections more difficult. It could be considered endemic (I don't know for certain WHO would ascribe that designation or not).

Yes, Biden making comments that it's over ignores the rest of the world. Even if the explanation offered by the press secretary regarding his remarks - that his comment refers to how US public is acting like the pandemic is over - is what he meant, it still does not acknowledge the pandemic characteristics in the rest of the world. How first world countries citizens are going around as if it has ended, ignores the continued rates of covid in the rest of the world.
 

Louis

Private citizen
Messages
17,745
A pandemic means the world, not just one country. Biden saying it is over ignores all the other countries.

The pandemic is even more "over" in most of the rest of the world. Americans, for whatever reason, seem intent on hanging onto their masks, their WFH, and their paranoia of catching a cold - which is what the virus has become for the vast majority of people, vaccinated or not.

Biden is absolutely right (and I don't say that often :lol: ).
 

skatfan

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,905
The pandemic is even more "over" in most of the rest of the world. Americans, for whatever reason, seem intent on hanging onto their masks, their WFH, and their paranoia of catching a cold - which is what the virus has become for the vast majority of people, vaccinated or not.

I'm hanging onto my masks - haven't gotten it so far, and looking to continue that streak.

2 percent of folks are getting bad versions of COVID. Millions in the US will have impaired health because of it, and that's more likely with repeat infections. Deaths are many times what the flu season brings. The pandemic isn't over, people are just tired of it.

Many places in the world are just now getting their first COVID vaccines.
Biden is absolutely right (and I don't say that often :lol: ).
Wouldn't you know that this time Biden is wrong, and you agree with him. ;)
 

MacMadame

Doing all the things
Messages
49,895
Deaths are many times what the flu season brings.
In the US they are about 3x what a bad flu season would be. (Just an FYI for people who aren't keeping track)

IMO we are definitely at a point where the risk-benefit analysis can vary wildly from person to person. If you are immunocompromised or live with someone who is, if you have a job that puts you in close contact with hundreds of strangers every shift, you are going to make different choices than someone who doesn't have to worry about those things and is fully vaccinated.

Covid is here to stay and while we may get better at treating it and cases will go down (well, that better happen), some of the things I was doing before vaccination, I am not willing to keep doing forever. Or even for just a few more years.
 

alexikeguchi

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,049
Canada dropping all Covid border restrictions on October 1 including masking on planes and trains.

Honestly, masking on public transport seemed like it was already theoretical when I traveled from the US to Vancouver in late April. Masking was not required on US flights at that point, but the crew reminded us to make sure we were masked when we exited the plane. However, none of the staff or passengers from other flights in immigration seemed to be that rigorous even back then.
 

skategal

Bunny mama
Messages
10,012
Honestly, masking on public transport seemed like it was already theoretical when I traveled from the US to Vancouver in late April. Masking was not required on US flights at that point, but the crew reminded us to make sure we were masked when we exited the plane. However, none of the staff or passengers from other flights in immigration seemed to be that rigorous even back then.
We flew to California and back in May.

Didn’t have to mask on US carriers but it was definitely enforced on the Canadian flights.

San Francisco airport was funny as the only people masked were coming from or going to the Air Canada gates.

I don’t know about Customs as we were the only or first ones there each time.
But staff were definitely masked.
 

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