News & Experiences continued

MsZem

Well-Known Member
Messages
17,011
Can you really compare 50 micrograms of Pfizer to 50 micrograms of Moderna?

I had assumed that the formulation was different for each. Or are they exactly the same except for the dosing protocol? Or maybe close enough to the same to compare?
It's discussed here:

I feel like someone has posted this article before, so apologies if I'm repeating existing information. This is a looooong thread ;)
 

rfisher

Let the skating begin
Messages
70,022
The shortage isn't due to mandated vaccinations. Most of those who are unvaccinated and refusing to do so are nursing home and home health aids, not hospital employees. The shortage in the hospital is due to fewer people entering the professions and more exiting due to overwork. Our imaging program numbers were the same this year, but our respiratory program had 3 students enter the program. 3. That's the trend in respiratory care across the country. Nursing school numbers were down as well. It will take 5-10 years to get back to the input/output ratios needed to make up for the people who left the professions.
 

Judy

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,740
The shortage isn't due to mandated vaccinations. Most of those who are unvaccinated and refusing to do so are nursing home and home health aids, not hospital employees. The shortage in the hospital is due to fewer people entering the professions and more exiting due to overwork. Our imaging program numbers were the same this year, but our respiratory program had 3 students enter the program. 3. That's the trend in respiratory care across the country. Nursing school numbers were down as well. It will take 5-10 years to get back to the input/output ratios needed to make up for the people who left the professions.
Same in Canada although there are more complicated reasons too. At the moment our govt is offering 10K in Ontario to attract nurses and Quebec is offering 15K. I would assume this is for RN’s which is a 4 year university degree. A large part is our govt ignoring the problem for years and years.

When my autistic sister was released from hospital she had to continue with IV antibiotics. Normally home care would do this but there was no home care available due to extreme shortages of nurses (RN’s are the only people nes that can administer IV).

Hospitals and society do not function without sufficient staffing levels.
 

skatfan

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,124
What about what they want for themselves? Pretty consistently, the old people in my life want to live their final years seeing their family, not wearing masks, and enjoying whatever time they have left without restrictions. They know the risks and are willing to accept them. I don’t think we should deny people liberty and pursuit of happiness because some highly paid doctors are feeling burned out, or because other people who can all get vaccinated and/or wear masks and/or protect themselves in any number of ways feel uneasy.

I’m all about protecting those who want to be protected, but we need to stop protecting those who don’t want our protection.
The medically vulnerable I know are the ones staying home to protect themselves. I’m planning a memorial service for one person’s mother and we will require masks and social distancing.

My point is that our area can’t handles the number of cAses we have - nonCOVID people are dying because of unvaccinated folks due to a lack of beds. And, ********* patients are prioritized for transfer over nonCOVID ones. That’s not simply a few docs working hard, it’s an overwhelmed system that has increased death rates. So no, your “liberty” does not trump other people dying.

In my area the old folks have their shots and the younger folks haven’t. My personal trainer got ********* because apparently he thought he didn’t need the vaccine. Oops! He’s now missing at least two weeks of appointments and we’ll see if he gets long *********. He didn’t even let me know he’d tested positive, thank goodness my tests have been negative.
 

AJ Skatefan

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,714
And the single best thing we can do to help the shortage is to do away with vaccine requirements :shuffle:. As of July, 27 percent of U.S. healthcare workers weren't vaccinated (still being referenced by NPR as of two weeks ago); not sure if anyone has a more current number.

I respect healthcare workers (and teachers), but I don't idolize them. They're not volunteers. Plenty of other essential workers have been killing themselves for far less pay and far less glory throughout this p@ndemic. One of the reasons the health service in the UK is so poor is that citizens and political parties idolize it and ignore the serious reforms needed. We have world-class shortages of just about every type of treatment, even before the p@ndemic, and yet people still gathered to clap for the NHS. Not me. I'll clap when the performance metrics warrant them.

I also refuse to live in fear that there won't be a doctor if I get sick. If that's the case, so be it. Death is a certainty in life; C19 deaths are far less bad than some others I've seen (e.g., various cancers, dementia); and my choice in life is to maximize experiences v. years lived.
 

rfisher

Let the skating begin
Messages
70,022
The medically vulnerable I know are the ones staying home to protect themselves. I’m planning a memorial service for one person’s mother and we will require masks and social distancing.

My point is that our area can’t handles the number of cAses we have - nonCOVID people are dying because of unvaccinated folks due to a lack of beds. And, ********* patients are prioritized for transfer over nonCOVID ones. That’s not simply a few docs working hard, it’s an overwhelmed system that has increased death rates. So no, your “liberty” does not trump other people dying.

In my area the old folks have their shots and the younger folks haven’t. My personal trainer got ********* because apparently he thought he didn’t need the vaccine. Oops! He’s now missing at least two weeks of appointments and we’ll see if he gets long *********. He didn’t even let me know he’d tested positive, thank goodness my tests have been negative.
Add in the fact some of the anti-vaxxers are now blaming health care workers and attacking them. Incidents of assaults both in the hospital and outside have tripled in the last year. MSNBC reported on this just this week. The statistics were frightening. I tell my students not to go any place in their scrubs. It's ridiculous that this has been so politicized that it's come to this. I have no sympathy for the non-vaccinated any more. We could be well beyond this by this point if people hadn't just been flat out stupid.
 

once_upon

Vaccinated
Messages
20,666
I know I'm wasting my time to try but I've been thinking a lot about Louis' attitude towards things

Deleted sorry

But I never understood casting out an entire population then and cannot understand casting an entire population of older people now. And I don't understand the discounting of Fauci who has done more research and looking for answers for AIDS cures.

I'm trying to understand not being able to travel from overseas to see family or attend funerals. I didnt see my family during that time, we zoomed a lot, I could see changes in them. But I also know that those changes are part of life and not all due to stay at home. My uncle has deteriorated significantly over the last 2 years. But it is not due to lockdown. It's because he is 97. A friend of mine kids ages 8 and 15 have been a more withdrawn but it's not masks, it is because they experienced a death (non c0vud related) close family member.


I realize that one's exposure to relatives/friends dying is somewhat limited (thank goodness it's very hard to be a healthcare provider and see all kinds of death processes). Cancer and dementia are awful that's true-I've experienced family members dying from those diseases. But so are deaths due to multi-system failure (like c0vid). So are deaths from preventable diseases like chicken pox, measles, etc.

I realize that Louis' exposure to the c0vid illness is a mild case in which he recovered fairly quickly and clouds his viewpoint. But for millions of people that's not true, and those people are getting younger.

I know there are healthcare personnel who have not vaccinated, who belong to the anti-mask population. But the real question would be who does that include? Environmental services, dietary, medical records, medical supply staff, security, parking valet - all staff who work in healthcare. @rfisher example is of a doctor, but not everyone in healthcare is patient care staff. And we cannot discount the political divide (which was totally preventable in my opinion).

Yes, I know I was/am fortunate to be able to control my risk. I also have a large number of relatives and friends who needed to be out there. I think it is my responsibility to do as much as I can to mitigate their risks.

I also have seen patients who say - if I die so be it. Until it actually comes to the dying part.

So, I'm trying hard to "get it", but I'm not. So for my sanity, I'm ignoring. But at least I know I've tried to look at it differently.
 
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VALuvsMKwan

Wandering Goy
Messages
7,785
Especially given he belongs to a population who was deeply impacted by another pan*demic.
In which space/time continuum at FSU has he ever acknowledged this to you so that you can definitely state this? If anything, he's gone to extreme lengths in posts to obscure disclosing whether or not that is true.
 
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once_upon

Vaccinated
Messages
20,666
In which space/time continuum at FSU has he ever acknowledged this to you so that you can definitely state this? If anything, he's gone to extreme lengths in posts to obscure disclosing whether or not that is true.
Ok. I made assumptions. Changed post

Very sorry
 
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MacMadame

Doing all the things
Messages
45,667
What about what they want for themselves? Pretty consistently, the old people in my life want to live their final years seeing their family, not wearing masks, and enjoying whatever time they have left without restrictions.
Of course, they do. How convenient.

You remind me of our school board president who declares routinely that "virtually everyone" he talks to agrees with his position on a certain matter even though we had a school board meeting where there were 100 public comments and 70 of them didn't agree with him and the teacher's union's official position didn't agree with him and the task force the school board created didn't agree with him.

And also of all the people on FSU who declare that the casual fan thinks the way that makes their point. ;)

My point is that you can't speak for all old people or even most of them and your take on this reeks of confirmation bias.

I’m all about protecting those who want to be protected, but we need to stop protecting those who don’t want our protection.
And how exactly do you proposed to do that? This is a communicable disease. Everything you do impacts the people around you.

For example, my wearing a mask protects you more than it protects me. So say my 80 something mother wants to be protected (she does) and gets vaccinated and wears masks. But my 80 something FIL doesn't (he doesn't). So he doesn't get vaccinated and says he is 'being careful" but he doesn't wear a mask unless required. So they both go to a wedding with hundreds of people in an area with high case rates and no mask mandate and they sit together and hang out. She wears a mask most of the time but can't while eating and drink -- of which there is a lot at a wedding and surrounding festivities.

So it turns out he has it and he gives it to her. He lives, but she doesn't. Basically, because he didn't want to protect himself, he's killed someone who wanted to be protected.

Now, most likely my mom wouldn't get it from him because she is wearing a mask a lot and is vaccinated. But it's no guarantee. And though both are in their 80s, my mom still works and also has a husband who needs her and a disabled daughter who needs her and comes from a family where people live well into their 90s. So she isn't some wasteful drag on society who is going to die in 5 years like you seem to think all old people are.

This isn't like cigarette smoking where if someone wants to kill themselves by smoking, as long as they don't smoke around other people, they are perfectly free to do so.

It's discussed here:

I feel like someone has posted this article before, so apologies if I'm repeating existing information. This is a looooong thread ;)
It was me! That's the article I was referring to when I said Pf used 30 and Mo used 100! :D Thanks for bringing it back into the discussion.

Ok. I made assumptions base on references of Sweets.
Which was never posted about in the public forum. I think you should edit your message.
 
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missing

Well-Known To Whom She Wonders
Messages
4,807
The shortage isn't due to mandated vaccinations. Most of those who are unvaccinated and refusing to do so are nursing home and home health aids, not hospital employees. The shortage in the hospital is due to fewer people entering the professions and more exiting due to overwork. Our imaging program numbers were the same this year, but our respiratory program had 3 students enter the program. 3. That's the trend in respiratory care across the country. Nursing school numbers were down as well. It will take 5-10 years to get back to the input/output ratios needed to make up for the people who left the professions.
This is off topic (something which has never happened in this thread before), and I have no proof of what I'm about to say (definitely nothing which has ever happened in this thread before) but it's my belief that if the nursing profession changed its name to something less gender associated, more men would enter the field.

Google, bless its heart, tells me flight attendants are approximately 75% female and 25% male. Nurses are 90% female and 10% male. Change the perception and the demographic changes along with it.
 

Susan1

Well-Known Member
Messages
10,456
For anybody who says not getting vaccinated doesn't hurt anybody else -

Whoever it was that posted about hearing a conversation about being forced to get a vaccine at home, maybe they caught a couple words of something like this and then made up the conspiracy theory to suit their warped idea
 
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Prancer

Professional Spuddler
Staff member
Messages
52,227
What about what they want for themselves? Pretty consistently, the old people in my life want to live their final years seeing their family, not wearing masks, and enjoying whatever time they have left without restrictions.
So what stopped those relatives of yours from seeing family when they wanted to? How would anyone stop them from doing so?

Now if they were in nursing or retirement homes, of course, visits were restricted. But how would you protect the other people in those nursing or retirement homes if you didn't restrict visitors and require masking?

I realize that Louis' exposure to the c0vid illness is a mild case in which he recovered fairly quickly and clouds his viewpoint.
Louis' attitude has been pretty much the same since day one and hasn't shifted one way or another based on his case that I can see. Louis has a strong libertarian streak and has views typical of that political persuasion. If you haven't understood him by now, I think you should just accept that you aren't going to and move on to things that are more interesting and personally satisfying for you.
 

skatingguy

Well-Known Member
Messages
10,329
This is off topic (something which has never happened in this thread before), and I have no proof of what I'm about to say (definitely nothing which has ever happened in this thread before) but it's my belief that if the nursing profession changed its name to something less gender associated, more men would enter the field.

Google, bless its heart, tells me flight attendants are approximately 75% female and 25% male. Nurses are 90% female and 10% male. Change the perception and the demographic changes along with it.
That might be why we don't call them stewardesses anymore.
 

Judy

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,740
Of course, they do. How convenient.

You remind me of our school board president who declares routinely that "virtually everyone" he talks to agrees with his position on a certain matter even though we had a school board meeting where there were 100 public comments and 70 of them didn't agree with him and the teacher's union's official position didn't agree with him and the task force the school board created didn't agree with him.

And also of all the people on FSU who declare that the casual fan thinks the way that makes their point. ;)

My point is that you can't speak for all old people or even most of them and your take on this reeks of confirmation bias.


And how exactly do you proposed to do that? This is a communicable disease. Everything you do impacts the people around you.

For example, my wearing a mask protects you more than it protects me. So say my 80 something mother wants to be protected (she does) and gets vaccinated and wears masks. But my 80 something FIL doesn't (he doesn't). So he doesn't get vaccinated and says he is 'being careful" but he doesn't wear a mask unless required. So they both go to a wedding with hundreds of people in an area with high case rates and no mask mandate and they sit together and hang out. She wears a mask most of the time but can't while eating and drink -- of which there is a lot at a wedding and surrounding festivities.

So it turns out he has it and he gives it to her. He lives, but she doesn't. Basically, because he didn't want to protect himself, he's killed someone who wanted to be protected.

Now, most likely my mom wouldn't get it from him because she is wearing a mask a lot and is vaccinated. But it's no guarantee. And though both are in their 80s, my mom still works and also has a husband who needs her and a disabled daughter who needs her and comes from a family where people live well into their 90s. So she isn't some wasteful drag on society who is going to die in 5 years like you seem to think all old people are.

This isn't like cigarette smoking where if someone wants to kill themselves by smoking, as long as they don't smoke around other people, they are perfectly free to do so.


It was me! That's the article I was referring to when I said Pf used 30 and Mo used 100! :D Thanks for bringing it back into the discussion.


Which was never posted about in the public forum. I think you should edit your message.
I don't find it difficult at all to just imagine if I still had my parents and I could never, ever live with myself if I passed along ********* to them. I would consider that my responsibility just like when I was working in an open school environment with H1N1 hit and there were tons of sick kids. Thankfully myself and my family were able to be vaccinated quickly as a supply had just come in but my dad was dying and we were caregivers.
 

once_upon

Vaccinated
Messages
20,666
Actually I see lots of men now in nursing and have over the past 20 years due to my parents illnesses etc.
My nursing class had three male students and we were the first class at my diploma program to have males. It was quite the discussion what to do in capping ceremonies.
All three of them advanced into management quicker than any of my female classmates.
 

skatfan

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,124
Small data sample from the radiology offices I visited today where the rule in the building is to wear masks.

percentage of all women wearing masks properly: 100%
percentage of white men pulling down their masks in the outer office and hall: 100%

This just pisses me off to no end. :angryfire
 

rfisher

Let the skating begin
Messages
70,022
I've heard that the radiologist who refused vaccination (he was very Trumpish conservative) has died only one day after being on the vent. I find it very hard to be sympathetic. I know he's seen the chest CTs of people with C-19, yet his arrogance has now caused his death which could have been prevented with a one second injection. He knew and understood the science and deliberately chose not to be vaccinated because of politics.

And worse, one of my faculty's daughter and her entire family are sick with C-19. Her husband and 6 year old are the worst. Mother had the J-J but convinced the rest of the family she had all sorts of side effects which I doubt and so do her docs, but FB and politics overrule people's good sense.
 

canbelto

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,194
SO a woman on FB swears that she's in a Pfizer study because she got leukemia from the shot. I said I call bullshit on that and she freaked out. It's so strange how all these doom and gloom scenarios only happen to people who have been posting anti-vax memes for most of the year ...
 

Judy

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,740
I've heard that the radiologist who refused vaccination (he was very Trumpish conservative) has died only one day after being on the vent. I find it very hard to be sympathetic. I know he's seen the chest CTs of people with C-19, yet his arrogance has now caused his death which could have been prevented with a one second injection. He knew and understood the science and deliberately chose not to be vaccinated because of politics.

And worse, one of my faculty's daughter and her entire family are sick with C-19. Her husband and 6 year old are the worst. Mother had the J-J but convinced the rest of the family she had all sorts of side effects which I doubt and so do her docs, but FB and politics overrule people's good sense.
For me the ********* is a health situation vs politics. However, it has been very politicized in the U.S. and some anti-vaccination people in Canada use the politics too. Most of them babble gibberish. Our media has stopped reporting on protests for months now.

The vaccine passport is helping with vaccination though. We are over 80% in my city so once kids can get vaccinated that will push it higher. I'm very excited to spend Thanksgiving with my family for the first time in two years on the weekend (Cdn Thanksgiving) and we are all vaccinated.
 

Judy

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,740
SO a woman on FB swears that she's in a Pfizer study because she got leukemia from the shot. I said I call bullshit on that and she freaked out. It's so strange how all these doom and gloom scenarios only happen to people who have been posting anti-vax memes for most of the year ...
You should tell them to watch the movie Songbird on Amazon Prime. It's about ********* 23, 4 years of lockdowns, martial law ... not sure this link will work but I'll try it ..


Looks kind of like a ********* horror movie which I have no interest in watching) but your friend might love it 😂.
 

Dobre

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,775
Per Bloomberg, 400 million doses have now been given in the U.S.

----

Almost a quarter of all new cases in Oregon last week were breakthrough cases. Hospitalizations are down to 699 (below 700 for the first time in a long while). A new high of 59 deaths were reported in the state today. No details on individuals. (Feels like this may be a backlog day? We've been spiking into the 40s, but even deaths have been trending down since mid-September). A judge said nyet to a lawsuit trying to halt the vaccine mandate for Oregon State Police.

----

My sister and many of her friends in health care are considering changing their line of work because they are worn out, in part from serving people who refuse to listen to advice to get vaccinated. (She's not sure what she wants to do yet, but I think she is considering a less patient-communication heavy aspect of the profession).
 

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