News & Experiences continued

MacMadame

Doing all the things
Messages
44,431
Sweden has just stopped using Moderna for under 30 year olds and Denmark has stopped it for under 18 year old. Those age groups will only get Pfizer.

They say for younger people there's a bit more serious side effects (like myocarditis) than with Pfizer.
I read in an article I posted here that the Moderna shot is 100 mcg (1.0 mL) while Pfizer is 30. Pfizer specifically rejected the 100 unit dose because they considered it to have too many side effects in early testing.

I just made her my avatar in my profile. That's Mali! Foster fail perfection.
She's cute!

And I don't know why the Photobucket thing didn't work. 🤷‍♀️
 

Judy

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,371
I just made her my avatar in my profile. That's Mali! Foster fail perfection.

Seriously, there are some behavioral issues but nothing that some training won't correct. Otherwise, she's loving and playful and cuddly and very funny.
❤️❤️❤️
 

Judy

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,371
The majority of 80+ year olds who catch C19 survive - even before vaccination. But the blunt reality is that once people get to a certain age, SOMETHING is going to kill them. I don't want old people or anyone to die, but it's going to happen regardless of my views. C19 is killing people who, by and large, have already lived longer than the average life expectancy. We can't live forever.



Maybe my stat is slightly out of date, but the published median from the CDC was 82.4 last time I checked. The median in the UK is also 82. If there's something more accurate, I'm happy to stand corrected. I did not see a published median on the latest tables, and didn't want to impute one.



Please don't tell me about lonely deaths given that my grandfather and great-uncle (both veterans of war) died lonely, isolated deaths because of C19 restrictions and weren't able to have dignified funerals. No one is mourning those deaths. No one is counting them in any statistic. No one is taking accountability that their policy decisions killed my relatives. The people we're supposedly protecting didn't want the "protection" and didn't have a choice. Why are C19 deaths the only deaths that count? Why do we hear so much about these 700k deaths and not about any of the ~3 million other deaths?

People will defend these terrible, divisive, inhumane C19 policies at all costs because they've become political propaganda. Who are we protecting? Upper middle class white liberals who want to work from home.
Well as my friend's daughter who Is a dr and was pulling 24 hr shifts in the ICU in Ontario .. is that the people she was seeing were getting younger and younger.

We also don't hear the statistics about people being put on ventilators and suffering permanent damage.

As for people dying alone of course it was absolutely horrible. You can't infect a hospital though because people are at their sickest and most vulnerable.

'I think you need to visit an ICU.
 
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once_upon

Vaccinated
Messages
19,849
Well as my friend's daughter who Is a dr and was pulling 24 hr shifts in the ICU in Ontario .. is that the people she was seeing were getting younger and younger.

We also don't hear the statistics about people being put on ventilators and suffering permanent damage.

As for people dying alone of course it was absolutely horrible. You can't infect a hospital though because people are at their sickest and most vulnerable.

'I think you need to visit an ICU.
I think earlier he said, doctors and nurses chose that profession and he doesn't feel any empathy for them.
 

skatingfan5

Past Prancer's Corridor
Messages
13,989
I read in an article I posted here that the Moderna shot is 100 mcg (1.0 mL) while Pfizer is 30. Pfizer specifically rejected the 100 unit dose because they considered it to have too many side effects in early testing.
I read that article and iirc Pfizer’s early testing had 10, 20, 30 and 100 microgram does — the lowest ones did not provide a strong enough antibody response; the 100 microgram dose was considered a “hot” one with stronger side effects than they thought would be accepted by the public. In retrospect, given Pfizer’s more significant apparent waning, perhaps they should have tried 50 — and perhaps Moderna should have as well. Anyway, I am glad I got Moderna ( it was random whether it was that or Pfizer at my clinic’s vaccination site. And since I am decades past 30, I could even get it in Sweden, if that ever became necessary. :)
 

hoptoad

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,686
I read that article and iirc Pfizer’s early testing had 10, 20, 30 and 100 microgram does — the lowest ones did not provide a strong enough antibody response; the 100 microgram dose was considered a “hot” one with stronger side effects than they thought would be accepted by the public. In retrospect, given Pfizer’s more significant apparent waning, perhaps they should have tried 50 — and perhaps Moderna should have as well. <snip>
Can you really compare 50 micrograms of Pfizer to 50 micrograms of Moderna?

I had assumed that the formulation was different for each. Or are they exactly the same except for the dosing protocol? Or maybe close enough to the same to compare?
 

Dobre

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,306
I got my flu shot today and the pharmacist told me I could get a booster Moderna shot if I were immunocompromised. I'm not sure that's right. Anyway, I declined. The formal recommendations for Modern boosters will be out in a couple of weeks.
The third shot for immunocompromised people is true for both Moderna & Pfizer. It was authorized by the FDA.
"The Food and Drug Administration on Thursday authorized third doses of Pfizer-BioNTech’s and Moderna’s ******** vaccines for some people with weakened immune systems, giving physicians more leeway to protect those who did not respond enough to an initial series of shots."

----

New York now has given enough doses to cover 70% of its total population. (I'm not sure this means the same thing as it once did now that 3rd doses are being given, but regardless of how people are counting those 3rd doses, it is still a good thing).

----
In Oregon, Multnomah County (Portland) now has 70% of adults with at least 1 dose. Columbia County now has 60% of adults with at least 1 dose. This means that every county in the Northwest quarter of Oregon now has at least 60%. (This is the highest vaccinated and highest populated quarter of the state). Meanwhile here in the eastern two-thirds of the state (including the 3-4 well-vaccinated counties), we are still surging and almost all counties this side of the Cascades are either red or purple on the NYT map. We are now fully two weeks out from the Pendleton Roundup. Fingers crossed that cases start to go back down again.
 

Susan1

Well-Known Member
Messages
10,304
"As of Wednesday, Oct. 6, the state is reporting a total of 1,445,786 (+6,296) total cases since the start of the *********, leading to 74,620 (+337) hospitalizations and 9,609 (+21) ICU admissions. A total of 6,344,385 Ohioans — 54.28% of the state’s population — has started the vaccination process. That’s an increase of 7,086 from the previous day.

The Department of Health reported 217 deaths Tuesday, bringing the total to 22,490."

Up from +5,533 yesterday. At least vaccinations keep going up too.
 

Judy

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,371
Just imagine how much sooner this p*ndemic would have ended if people actually worked together and showed courtesy. We have enough divisions (black vs white, men vs women, blue vs red, etc) and now vaccinated vs anti-vaxx. I'm sick and tired of the selfish people who claim they're exempt for religious/health/freedumb reasons. They don't deserve to step in the hospital.
This is what we are doing. I agree with you .. I am sick and tired of the anti vaccination people they are absolutely holding everything back. It's the only solution.

 

Judy

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,371
I saw one of those load stupid anti masking, anti vaccine etc protests March past me on Yonge earlier today. For the most part they did not get a warm welcome. I was surprised they were allowed to do this in the busy downtown area and blocking traffic on a day the subway was also not working. There was probably a couple hundred of them.
The media really doesn't give them attention anymore and hasn't for a long time.
 

MacMadame

Doing all the things
Messages
44,431
Can you really compare 50 micrograms of Pfizer to 50 micrograms of Moderna?

I had assumed that the formulation was different for each. Or are they exactly the same except for the dosing protocol? Or maybe close enough to the same to compare?
From what I've seen, they are pretty similar.
 

Judy

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,371
We're still debating her name. She came with a name that's way too similar to my daughter's (one letter difference). So we are still thinking about it. For now she's Mali. She's an adorable shaggy rug of a doggie that has completely stolen our hearts.

I don't know how to paste pictures here!
I love foster failures lol. Dogs are good for the soul (cats too).
 

Louis

Private citizen
Messages
16,198
Healthcare professionals shortage is real.

And the single best thing we can do to help the shortage is to do away with vaccine requirements :shuffle:. As of July, 27 percent of U.S. healthcare workers weren't vaccinated (still being referenced by NPR as of two weeks ago); not sure if anyone has a more current number.

I respect healthcare workers (and teachers), but I don't idolize them. They're not volunteers. Plenty of other essential workers have been killing themselves for far less pay and far less glory throughout this p@ndemic. One of the reasons the health service in the UK is so poor is that citizens and political parties idolize it and ignore the serious reforms needed. We have world-class shortages of just about every type of treatment, even before the p@ndemic, and yet people still gathered to clap for the NHS. Not me. I'll clap when the performance metrics warrant them.

I also refuse to live in fear that there won't be a doctor if I get sick. If that's the case, so be it. Death is a certainty in life; C19 deaths are far less bad than some others I've seen (e.g., various cancers, dementia); and my choice in life is to maximize experiences v. years lived.
 

Dobre

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,306

Umatilla County reports 179 *********-19 cases in Pendleton Round-Up outbreak​


Le sigh.

"Cases stemming from the week-long rodeo have so far been reported in Oregon, Washington and Montana, as well as Umatilla, Jefferson, Morrow, Wallowa and Union counties, according to Mike Stensrud, an epidemiologist with Umatilla County Public Health. The vast majority of cases have been reported in Umatilla County — 166.

But the county still doesn’t know if the outbreak could be larger, as contact tracers have only been able to interview 81% of identified cases stemming from the Round-Up.

The county plans to disclose more data soon about where the cases occurred during Round-Up week to inform residents about their likelihood of exposure to the ***** and to inform future event planning.

Umatilla County has reported 13,596 *********-19 cases since the ********* began, according to county health data. In all, 129 county residents who have contracted the ***** have died."
 
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skatfan

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,951
I also refuse to live in fear that there won't be a doctor if I get sick. If that's the case, so be it. Death is a certainty in life; C19 deaths are far less bad than some others I've seen (e.g., various cancers, dementia); and my choice in life is to maximize experiences v. years lived.
That fine for you to be willing to take the risks a relatively healthy person. I refuse to want that for my medically vulnerable congregants or society in general. We’ve already had patients die in our small community hospitals in my county because they couldn’t be found beds in higher level hospitals due to the surge in AZ.
 

acraven

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,370
And the single best thing we can do to help the shortage is to do away with vaccine requirements :shuffle:. As of July, 27 percent of U.S. healthcare workers weren't vaccinated (still being referenced by NPR as of two weeks ago); not sure if anyone has a more current number.

There have been a few articles about large medical systems firing employees who failed to get vaccinated by the companies' deadlines. In every case I've seen, the fired personnel represented less than 1% of the total workforce; it may have been less than 1/2%. I don't know why that number is so massively different from the 27% you cite, but I can think of a few possibilities:
  • When jobs are on the line, most unvaccinated people may cave.
  • The percentage unvaccinated probably varies a lot by city, and it may be medical systems in the most highly vaccinated cities that established early cut-off dates for their employees.
  • The percentage unvaccinated is probably still a lot higher among the low-paid, less-educated employees making up a significant part of the staff in long-term-care (LTC) facilities than among the staff of large hospital systems, and LTC facilities are not the ones with articles being written about their vaccination mandates (and they may well not have such mandates at this point).
  • The vaccination mandates may not always apply (at this point) to non-medical employees of medical facilities. Vaccine hesitancy may well be a lot higher among those folks than it is for RNs, LPNs and MDs.
 

Miezekatze

Well-Known Member
Messages
16,062
Apparently the German vaccination rate is probably 5% higher than the official statistics, cause we're still crap at collecting data 🙄
 

skategal

Bunny mama
Messages
8,490
What people are not talking about, although I’ve seen it alluded to in some interviews and articles about vaccine mandates for health care staff, is liability for a Heath care worker infecting a patient with a vaccine preventable disease which could cause them death or long-term disability.

The CEO of the Windsor Health Care System in Ontario Canada kept saying “We can’t afford to keep unvaccinated staff employed here.” I think this is what he was hinting at besides the issues of potentially having staff be sick and off work or die from CV because they weren’t vaccinated.
 

Louis

Private citizen
Messages
16,198
I refuse to want that for my medically vulnerable congregants or society in general.

What about what they want for themselves? Pretty consistently, the old people in my life want to live their final years seeing their family, not wearing masks, and enjoying whatever time they have left without restrictions. They know the risks and are willing to accept them. I don’t think we should deny people liberty and pursuit of happiness because some highly paid doctors are feeling burned out, or because other people who can all get vaccinated and/or wear masks and/or protect themselves in any number of ways feel uneasy.

I’m all about protecting those who want to be protected, but we need to stop protecting those who don’t want our protection.
 

skatingfan5

Past Prancer's Corridor
Messages
13,989
Can you really compare 50 micrograms of Pfizer to 50 micrograms of Moderna?

I had assumed that the formulation was different for each. Or are they exactly the same except for the dosing protocol? Or maybe close enough to the same to compare?
From what I’ve read they differ in the amount of the active ingredient they contain — ie. the spike protein. They both contain the genetic instructions (mRNA) for the full spike, though Pfizer in early development was considering using just a portion of the spike protein. Someone with better medical knowledge can correct me where I am wrong about this.
 

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