News & Experiences continued

Louis

Private citizen
Messages
16,198
@Louis you may not mean it to sound this way, but it looks like you're saying, "It's mostly killing old people, so who cares?"

The majority of 80+ year olds who catch C19 survive - even before vaccination. But the blunt reality is that once people get to a certain age, SOMETHING is going to kill them. I don't want old people or anyone to die, but it's going to happen regardless of my views. C19 is killing people who, by and large, have already lived longer than the average life expectancy. We can't live forever.

Although I can’t imagine why he’s forgotten how to calculate a median. :unsure: Could it be politically motivated instead of health (or fact) based?

Maybe my stat is slightly out of date, but the published median from the CDC was 82.4 last time I checked. The median in the UK is also 82. If there's something more accurate, I'm happy to stand corrected. I did not see a published median on the latest tables, and didn't want to impute one.

Many of those who died of CV were indeed older, and may not have had great quality of life. But there are plenty of older people who have wonderful, fulfilling lives. And even those who aren't as fortunate don't deserve a lonely death like this one.

Please don't tell me about lonely deaths given that my grandfather and great-uncle (both veterans of war) died lonely, isolated deaths because of C19 restrictions and weren't able to have dignified funerals. No one is mourning those deaths. No one is counting them in any statistic. No one is taking accountability that their policy decisions killed my relatives. The people we're supposedly protecting didn't want the "protection" and didn't have a choice. Why are C19 deaths the only deaths that count? Why do we hear so much about these 700k deaths and not about any of the ~3 million other deaths?

People will defend these terrible, divisive, inhumane C19 policies at all costs because they've become political propaganda. Who are we protecting? Upper middle class white liberals who want to work from home.
 

MsZem

Well-Known Member
Messages
16,755
Please don't tell me about lonely deaths given that my grandfather and great-uncle (both veterans of war) died lonely, isolated deaths because of C19 restrictions and weren't able to have dignified funerals. No one is mourning those deaths. No one is counting them in any statistic. No one is taking accountability that their policy decisions killed my relatives. The people we're supposedly protecting didn't want the "protection" and didn't have a choice. Why are C19 deaths the only deaths that count? Why do we hear so much about these 700k deaths and not about any of the ~3 million other deaths?
My grandfather died a few months before the pandemlc started, and I'm forever grateful he didn't have to experience it. He would have been so lonely and bereft.
 

Debdelilah2

Member
Messages
22
The majority of 80+ year olds who catch C19 survive - even before vaccination. But the blunt reality is that once people get to a certain age, SOMETHING is going to kill them. I don't want old people or anyone to die, but it's going to happen regardless of my views. C19 is killing people who, by and large, have already lived longer than the average life expectancy. We can't live forever.



Maybe my stat is slightly out of date, but the published median from the CDC was 82.4 last time I checked. The median in the UK is also 82. If there's something more accurate, I'm happy to stand corrected. I did not see a published median on the latest tables, and didn't want to impute one.



Please don't tell me about lonely deaths given that my grandfather and great-uncle (both veterans of war) died lonely, isolated deaths because of C19 restrictions and weren't able to have dignified funerals. No one is mourning those deaths. No one is counting them in any statistic. No one is taking accountability that their policy decisions killed my relatives. The people we're supposedly protecting didn't want the "protection" and didn't have a choice. Why are C19 deaths the only deaths that count? Why do we hear so much about these 700k deaths and not about any of the ~3 million other deaths?

People will defend these terrible, divisive, inhumane C19 policies at all costs because they've become political propaganda. Who are we protecting? Upper middle class white liberals who want to work from home.
I’m sorry for your loss; but I wish you wouldn’t make sweeping statements like no one is mourning. Clearly, you are mourning. I think we’ve seen coverage in the news too of the mental health effects of quarantine. Occasionally there are also articles about ********* spreading among families gathered for weddings and funerals.
People least likely to agree ********* is a serious health problem aren’t protecting themselves. When you say “who are we protecting?” it would seem most of protection is local. If people locally don’t protect themselves because they think protecting themselves means protecting distant people on the other side of the political spectrum, isn’t there a logical disconnect there?
 

missing

Well-Known To Whom She Wonders
Messages
4,563
New England is seeing a Delta surge.

According to the AP data, full vaccination rates across the six New England states range from a high of 69.4% in Vermont to 61.5% in New Hampshire.

Despite the relatively high vaccination rates — the U.S. as a whole is averaging 55.5% — there are still hundreds of thousands of people across the region who, for one reason or another, remain unvaccinated and vulnerable to infection.

 

SkateSand

Cat Servant
Messages
1,389
In my very red county, with multiple anti-vax protests from health care workers, both our hospitals are now at 99% vaccinated - the remaining 1% unvaccinated will be terminated. So when push comes to shove, people are getting vaccinated to keep their jobs despite their strident and public rhetoric. We also have national guard medic help since both hospitals requested it due to the high case count here (I personally think it was more that they were worried they'd be short-staffed due to anti-vaxxer staff).

One of our local violence promoting militia guys who's also on trial now for misdemeanor assault (he had two of his employees assault a local comedian who had been posting mocking videos) and is also married to an anti-vaxxer nurse, announced he would be moving out of state now that Newsom will be mandating CV vaccines for school kids. We can't wait until he and his family leave. :p
 

MacMadame

Doing all the things
Messages
44,431
The median *********-19 sufferer in America is a 48-year-old; in Italy it is a 63-year-old.

I've seen a few estimates of the median age of people dying of ********* in the US; the range is from 75-78. But perhaps someone has better statistics. The median age has been dropping since Delta arrived; younger people are dying from the variant. Old people are mostly vaccinated.
What's the definition of "CV-19 sufferer"? someone who made it to the hospital? Anyone who got it? Because IMO just looking at deaths is misleading. I think knowing the risk of ending up in the hospital is important when evaluating risks and benefits, not just the risk of dying.

One of our local violence promoting militia guys who's also on trial now for misdemeanor assault (he had two of his employees assault a local comedian who had been posting mocking videos) and is also married to an anti-vaxxer nurse, announced he would be moving out of state now that Newsom will be mandating CV vaccines for school kids. We can't wait until he and his family leave. :p
Bye, Felicia.
 

Dobre

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,306

Russia hits record number of daily *********-19 deaths​


Per Google, deaths in Russia are no longer plateaued at a high but instead have been rising to new record highs for the past two weeks, and new cases are now back up almost to the country's previous peak for Delta.
 

once_upon

Vaccinated
Messages
19,849
With 1 in 500 deaths due to C0vid in the US, I think it is very rare for someone to not know someone who died from this *****.

We are all mourning someone, something from this awful situation. All of us have seen changes in our families and we want someone/some government/some country to blame. We want to believe that what happened wouldn't have happened if only that government acted differently.

Yes people living in a different country have had different types of losses, but no matter which political party was/is in power borders would have been closed, travel restricted.
 

cygnus

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,091

Russia hits record number of daily *********-19 deaths​


Per Google, deaths in Russia are no longer plateaued at a high but instead have been rising to new record highs for the past two weeks, and new cases are now back up almost to the country's previous peak for Delta.
Russia has a really low vaccination rate, even though the vaccine has been available there for months. Less than 30% fully vaccinated. Lets hope this gives them the kick that is needed to take vaccination seriously.
 

Dobre

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,306
Healthcare workers and medical facilities from becoming so overwhelmed that people with illnesses other than YKW are not going to get timely treatment.
So essentially everyone.

Merck says *********-19 pill cuts risk of death, hospitalization​


Glad to see the fight against this ***** continue on multiple fronts.
 

Dobre

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,306
Maine, which is 68.7% fully vaccinated, is seeing hospitalizations and new case numbers on par with its previous January high.

(I'll say it again. I hate Delta).

The state is currently averaging 45 cases per 100K.
 
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Japanfan

Well-Known Member
Messages
24,805
Please don't tell me about lonely deaths given that my grandfather and great-uncle (both veterans of war) died lonely, isolated deaths because of C19 restrictions and weren't able to have dignified funerals. No one is mourning those deaths. No one is counting them in any statistic. No one is taking accountability that their policy decisions killed my relatives. The people we're supposedly protecting didn't want the "protection" and didn't have a choice. Why are C19 deaths the only deaths that count? Why do we hear so much about these 700k deaths and not about any of the ~3 million other deaths?
I don't think that deaths caused by **** count less than deaths by other causes, and I don't think that the media intends to send that message.

The thing is that **** is contagious - it is a threat to the world. If people are aware of that, and take precautions, lives will be spared.

And there is plenty of info out there about deaths by heart attack, and suicide, and other causes. But these situations are not usually epidemics, so receive less coverage than *****. However, the media pays attention to those situations in any case.

The news media in Canada give plenty of attention to deaths by opiode overdose in my city, which arguably has reached epidemic standards for a certain population. These deaths receive not much less attention than **** deaths.
 

Theatregirl1122

Needs a nap
Messages
25,560
I continue to find it interesting that some people believe that excess deaths in a pan-demic are caused primarily or only by the attempt to stop or mitigate the pan-demic as opposed to being caused by… the pan-demic. This is not the general understanding in the public health community of what excess mortality means.
 

missing

Well-Known To Whom She Wonders
Messages
4,563
The New York Times in its morning email report is feeling cheerfully optimistic that the worst is past.

That two-month cycle​

*********-19 is once again in retreat.​
The reasons remain somewhat unclear, and there is no guarantee that the decline in caseloads will continue. But the turnaround is now large enough — and been going on long enough — to deserve attention.​
The number of new daily cases in the U.S. has fallen 35 percent since Sept. 1...​
Worldwide, cases have also dropped more than 30 percent since late August. “This is as good as the world has looked in many months,” Dr. Eric Topol of Scripps Research wrote last week.​
These declines are consistent with a pattern that regular readers of this newsletter will recognize: *********’s mysterious two-month cycle. Since the ********* ***** began spreading in late 2019, cases have often surged for about two months — sometimes because of a variant, like Delta — and then declined for about two months.​
Epidemiologists do not understand why. Many popular explanations, like seasonality or the ebbs and flows of social distancing, are clearly insufficient, if not wrong. The two-month cycle has occurred during different seasons of the year and occurred even when human behavior was not changing in obvious ways.​
The most plausible explanations involve some combination of ***** biology and social networks. Perhaps each ***** variant is especially likely to infect some people but not others — and once many of the most vulnerable have been exposed, the ***** recedes. And perhaps a variant needs about two months to circulate through an average-sized community.​
Human behavior does play a role, with people often becoming more careful once caseloads begin to rise. But social distancing is not as important as public discussion of the ***** often imagines. “We’ve ascribed far too much human authority over the *****,” as Michael Osterholm, an infectious-disease expert at the University of Minnesota, has told me.​
The recent declines, for example, have occurred even as millions of American children have again crowded into school buildings.​
The pattern has also been evident within countries, including India, Indonesia, Thailand, Britain, France and Spain. In each of them, the Delta variant led to a surge in cases lasting somewhere from one and a half to two and a half months.​
In the U.S., the Delta surge started in several Southern states in June and began receding in those states in August. In much of the rest of the U.S., it began in July, and cases have begun falling the past few weeks. Even pediatric cases are falling, despite the lack of vaccine authorization for children under 12, as Jennifer Nuzzo of Johns Hopkins University told The Washington Post. (You can see the overall trends for every state here.)​
The most encouraging news is that serious ********* illnesses are also declining. The number of Americans hospitalized with ********* has fallen about 25 percent since Sept. 1. Daily deaths — which typically change direction a few weeks after cases and hospitalizations — have fallen 10 percent since Sept. 20. It is the first sustained decline in deaths since the early summer.​

‘The last major wave’?​

This is the part of the newsletter where I need to emphasize that these declines may not persist. *********’s two-month cycle is not some kind of iron law of science. There have been plenty of exceptions.​
In Britain, for example, caseloads have seesawed over the past two months, rather than consistently fallen. In the U.S., the onset of cold weather and the increase in indoor activities — or some other unknown factor — could cause a rise in cases this fall. The course of the ********* remains highly uncertain.​
But this uncertainty also means that the near future could prove to be more encouraging than we expect. And there are some legitimate reasons for ********* optimism.​
The share of Americans 12 and over who have received at least one vaccine shot has reached 76 percent, and the growing number of vaccine mandates — along with the likely authorization of the Pfizer vaccine for children ages 5 to 11 — will increase the number of vaccinations this fall. Almost as important, something like one-half of Americans have probably had the ********* ***** already, giving them some natural immunity.​
Eventually, immunity will become widespread enough that another wave as large and damaging as the Delta wave will not be possible. “Barring something unexpected,” Dr. Scott Gottlieb, a former F.D.A. commissioner and the author of “Uncontrolled Spread,” a new book on *********, told me, “I’m of the opinion that this is the last major wave of infection.”​
********* has not only been one of the worst pandemics in modern times. It has been an unnecessarily terrible *********. Of the more than 700,000 Americans who have died from it, nearly 200,000 probably could have been saved if they had chosen to take a vaccine. That is a national tragedy.​
********* also isn’t going to disappear anytime soon. It will continue to circulate for years, many scientists believe. But the vaccines can transform ********* into a manageable disease, not so different from a flu or common cold. In the past few weeks, the country appears to have moved closer to that less grim future.​
Whatever this autumn brings, the worst of the ********* is almost certainly behind us.​
 

MsZem

Well-Known Member
Messages
16,755
New Zealand has thrown in the towel on CV-zero. They're still proceeding carefully and wisely, but they're done trying to eliminate it completely.
 
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Miezekatze

Well-Known Member
Messages
16,062
In Germany many states are lifting mask mandates for children at school right now when they are seated, we'll see how that goes, since it's exactly the point of time where the winter wave started last year.

But so far the situation is ok here, we had a small 4th wave, that is plateauing right now:

Generally I support not restricting children more than necessary, because it's also what most peditricians in Germany seem to support too. We have not seen more severly ill cases from Delta with children here as in the US for example, I think the support for restrictions among parents is also not all that high and so far there have not been many outbreaks at schools with Delta, with the weekly tests (all children are tested 2 or 3 times a week).

I read France is also lifting mask mandates for children at school. The situation there is rather relaxed I think, lower numbers than germany.
 

FGRSK8

Toad whisperer.....
Messages
20,078
New Zealand has thrown in the towel on CV-zero. They're still proceeding carefully and wisely, but they're done trying to eliminate it completely.
Probably a good thing. It is like trying have zero common colds….
 

Louis

Private citizen
Messages
16,198
New Zealand has thrown in the towel on CV-zero. They're still proceeding carefully and wisely, but they're done trying to eliminate it completely.

It can't have been easy for Ardern to accept that she has failed (and she's getting blasted for it), but it's the right thing to do. Good leaders acknowledge failure and pivot. She's right that delta will evade almost all lockdowns, which come with the same devastating cost and have even fewer benefits.

In Germany many states are lifting mask mandates for children at school right now when they are seated

:cheer: :cheer2: This is such good news. I've been SMDH at the kids outside playing baseball in masks and other nonsense in the U.S.
 

skatingguy

Golden Team
Messages
9,991
I've been SMDH at the kids outside playing baseball in masks and other nonsense in the U.S.
Masks in baseball are normal. ;)

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manhn

Well-Known Member
Messages
13,784
Has anyone here from BC been asked to show proof of vaccination yet? Not once yet for me.
 

Louis

Private citizen
Messages
16,198
I'm not sure where you are seeing masked children playing softball/baseball/basketball outdoors, because kids around here aren't masked outdoors.
SMDH

Suburban Philadelphia and New Jersey. I'm not going to take pictures because people will think I'm a creeper, but if anyone wants to take a walk around the area close to Philadelphia Skating Club, you'll see all kinds of young children masked outdoors doing organized (presumably school) activities. My sister's kids in New Jersey are also required to wear masks outdoors at school.

I was pressuring my sister to get my 12-year-old nephew vaccinated. He was all for it. "Please, mom, I won't have to wear a mask!" Then she told him he'd have to wear a mask anyway, and his attitude shifted. "I'm not going to get vaccinated then!"
There you have it.

FWIW, I encouraged him to get vaccinated anyway and will ask his grandmother, who has (slightly) better sense. (I also do not make any comments about masks whatsoever around the children.)
 

Prancer

Professional Spuddler
Staff member
Messages
51,958
Suburban Philadelphia and New Jersey.
The US is a big place. It would help if you would be specific in your references, since most of here never have any idea what you are talking about when you rant about how things are in the US.

I was pressuring my sister to get my 12-year-old nephew vaccinated. He was all for it. "Please, mom, I won't have to wear a mask!" Then she told him he'd have to wear a mask anyway, and his attitude shifted. "I'm not going to get vaccinated then!"
There you have it.
Well, that's proof that your nephew and sister have opinions. But I don't think any of us ever doubted it, if we ever stopped to wonder about it.
 

Lemonade20

If I agreed with you, we’d both be wrong.
Messages
1,903
With 1 in 500 deaths due to C0vid in the US, I think it is very rare for someone to not know someone who died from this *****.

We are all mourning someone, something from this awful situation. All of us have seen changes in our families and we want someone/some government/some country to blame. We want to believe that what happened wouldn't have happened if only that government acted differently.

Yes people living in a different country have had different types of losses, but no matter which political party was/is in power borders would have been closed, travel restricted.
Agreed, not one person has escaped this. Everyone has either experienced it or had someone close experienced it. It doesn't matter if you're over 80 or under 18, this v*rus doesn't care. As difficult as it is now with unvaccinated people taking up beds, we all need to be just a little bit kinder. That's still someone's family member.
 

misskarne

Handy Emergency Backup Mode
Messages
21,469
It can't have been easy for Ardern to accept that she has failed (and she's getting blasted for it), but it's the right thing to do.
I don't think anyone with a brain would say Ardern has failed, or any other leader who was pursuing zero.

After all, she doesn't have 700,000+ dead New Zealanders and a health care system on the verge of collapse, so she's done well by her people.
 

Dobre

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,306
She's done very well.

On that note, both Australia and New Zealand have now given enough doses to cover over 50% of their total populations. Per Bloomberg, Australia has 66% with one dose, and New Zealand has 57% with one dose.
 

Orm Irian

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,298
Per the national broadcaster, Australia actually has 74.94% of the population aged 16 and over with at least one dose and 57.36% with two doses. Distribution is not even across all states or sectors of the population, though.

And those numbers don't include the 12-15 age group, which is currently sitting at 47.3% with at least one dose two and a half weeks after vaccinations opened in all states. One great side effect of that group being able to access vaccinations is that we've seen a corresponding pick-up in vaccination rates for the 30-39 and 40-49 years groups - parents making time to do for their children and themselves what they keep putting off when it's only themselves to think about.
 

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