News & Experiences continued

Louis

Private citizen
Messages
16,148
I am a bit confused by this article. What exactly is the policy in the UK about vaccines and quarantining? Because it seems like they are saying it's not the vaccine but the country, which is weird.


I had a feeling the European policy would be problematic in the U.K. (and I’m still waiting to see if it will be problematic in the U.S.). Due to the transmissibility of delta, the one dose + recovery from C19 crowd is a sizeable group, and EU countries have shown little movement to abandon their science-based policy and give this group second doses sooner only to appease non-scientific, arbitrary, and political pressures.

I can’t tell for sure what the U.K. policy is from this article, but I do know the specific batch is relevant to some countries. Many U.K. travellers were initially barred from EU countries because they had received doses of certain Astra Zeneca batches manufactured in India. Apparently each batch is approved separately? Basically, ethnic and poor people were being banned because they had received the same vaccine made at a cheaper facility. :rolleyes:

Another one of the litany of reasons I’m opposed to vaccine passports while nevertheless encouraging everyone to be vaccinated.
 

Dobre

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,135
Oregon reported 1,836 new cases today and 885 hospitalizations (both down some more, though 91% of hospital & ICU beds are still full), 12 deaths, 7000+ vaccinations. Cases are up over 100 again in Umatilla County today. The Pendleton Roundup finished up its second weekend last Saturday there. Washington County is now the first county in the state to have 80% of adults with at least one dose.
 

Dobre

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,135
Per the last update of the NPR map (Monday), all states were in red except Connecticut, Maryland, and California--which were orange.

Puerto Rico is in yellow.
 

FiveRinger

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,394
I'm starting a new job in the next couple of weeks. I'll be in office for training, having been home for the past year and a half. After accepting the job, my very first question was what is the vaccine policy. I'll be working for one of the utility companies, and I was thrilled when I heard that vaccines were mandatory, and until they get your status updated in their system, you're required to wear a mask. I've been told that takes about a week, but if it took 6 months I'd be okay with it. I'm in a blood red state, but a very blue city, so I was very pleased with this news. I see myself wearing my mask as long as I can stand it. I'm a control freak.

I don't understand why people are complaining about masks now. My best advice is to do everything you can to stay out of the hospital. Word is that they don't have room for you when you get there. If the slight discomfort of a mask will lesson my chances of going to the ER then I'm all for it. You see what's happening to those who fail to comply. They've run out of room at their own medical facilities and are overrunning all of the rest of them. You don't want the doctor to be choosing to save those fools over you. Just wear the damn mask. And put one on those babies who can't get a shot.

Speaking of, it's hard as all hell to get a regular doctors' appointments. I wanted to go get all my meds refilled and get new glasses before my insurance switched. I also wanted to spend down my HSA. If I had a medical emergency I wouldn't know what to do. Urgent care,, i guess. Doctors are booked solid for months. I got situated, but one internist I tried to see is booked out until May 2022! What the AF?!?
 

MacMadame

Doing all the things
Messages
43,195
Our vet is also booked out. Something like four vets in our city all quit practicing at the start of the ********* and then people adopted all these animals.
 

Louis

Private citizen
Messages
16,148
For anyone who doubted that lockdown would cause more deaths than it saved, a new analysis from the UK shows that half of excess deaths from July are likely related to lockdown, and the impact is only likely to get worse.

It's a terrible read: Far more deaths from far fewer diagnoses of the conditions that cause those deaths, 23 million fewer consultations per year, 5 million people waiting for treatment projected to grow to 13 million, 3.5 million people waiting for operations (385,000 for more than a year), 1.6 million people not seeking emergency treatment, 20k undiagnosed cancer patients, cancer care now being rationed due to impossible backlogs that are forecasted to take until 2033 to clear - and that's assuming significant increases to pre-p@ndemic levels.

The cycle of lockdowns has created a permanent health crisis from which there may be no way back. I continue to believe we will look back on this as one of the greatest mistakes society has ever made.
 

skatingguy

Golden Team
Messages
9,355
For anyone who doubted that lockdown would cause more deaths than it saved, a new analysis from the UK shows that half of excess deaths from July are likely related to lockdown, and the impact is only likely to get worse.
I'm quoting this so that the link will work.
 
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skatingguy

Golden Team
Messages
9,355
For anyone who doubted that lockdown would cause more deaths than it saved, a new analysis from the UK shows that half of excess deaths from July are likely related to lockdown, and the impact is only likely to get worse.

It's a terrible read: Far more deaths from far fewer diagnoses of the conditions that cause those deaths, 23 million fewer consultations per year, 5 million people waiting for treatment projected to grow to 13 million, 3.5 million people waiting for operations (385,000 for more than a year), 1.6 million people not seeking emergency treatment, 20k undiagnosed cancer patients, cancer care now being rationed due to impossible backlogs that are forecasted to take until 2033 to clear - and that's assuming significant increases to pre-p@ndemic levels.

The cycle of lockdowns has created a permanent health crisis from which there may be no way back. I continue to believe we will look back on this as one of the greatest mistakes society has ever made.
It's not clear to me how reduced access to health care, and an increased level of hesitancy to access health care during the ********* are related to lockdowns.
 

Dobre

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,135
Yes, reduced access to health care in my state is due to unvaccinated patients overrunning our hospitals so that other people can't get treatment for serious though less emergent problems. It's true that hospitals were closed to non-emergent care for a month, maybe 6 weeks, back in the spring of last year here (though my parents could still get their regular appointments); but that non-emergent care was the first thing that reopened. Our hospitals were not overrun when things reopened. It is only during this current surge that we have had so many people unable to get care. I'm assuming those hospitals are slowly returning to those non-emergent patients now that ********* hospitalizations in the state have begun to drop. Though it's still a long way to go before we are close to where we want to be for ********* hospitalizations. (We're in the 800s right now, and we need that number to drop down below 300). Another challenge is that some health care staff have been pulled out of their normal positions in order to serve ********* patients. I haven't read about this happening here, though I'm sure it is; but I have read about it in a number of different states.
 

once_upon

Vaccinated
Messages
19,463
I think it is non quantifiable. If with shut downs we still have 1 in 500 Americans dying of c-19, what would be the number dying without shut down. We will never know which way would have resulted in less death or long term devastating illness.

It's like I was talking with my husband - the question that Star Trek episodes asked: if this one incident or change happened how does the future change? What if we had a different political approach? What if we acted like we did with SARS in the beginning? What if everyone lined up and willingly got vaccinated?

We will never know what difference one thing or step would have made. And unlike Spanish Flu epidemic we have major advances in medicine that changes treatments/outcomes of hundreds of diseases.

Frankly we will never know
 

Dobre

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,135
This is a nice news clip & article about Washington County reaching the 80% mark for adult vaccinations:

It is quite an achievement for Washington County, which is very populated & very diverse. The TV clip is in Forest Grove, which has a high Latino population and plenty of poorer families. I wish we had similar programs focusing on reaching the large Latino communities in Northeastern Oregon in Umatilla & Morrow County. There were definitely attempts to do this initially, but I haven't read about any groups similar to Adelante Mujeres trying to follow through & continue the outreach now that these Morrow & Umatilla counties are past the initial vaccination clinics.

Also, do we know when the 100-employee vaccination mandate kicks in? Gilliam County is way down at about 46% of adults vaccinated, with its numbers particularly low in the north end of the county. Its major employer is Waste Management, which buries Portland's garbage; and by golly, if that company mandated vaccinations, that should cause a sea change in its low-populated & low-vaccinated zip code.
 

Theatregirl1122

Needs a nap
Messages
25,405
It's not clear to me how reduced access to health care, and an increased level of hesitancy to access health care during the ********* are related to lockdowns.

It's very interesting to watch someone read a study so that it says only what they want it to say rather than what it says. Overfull hospitals cause excess deaths for a variety of reasons. But the excess deaths come from the overfull hospitals. The overfull hospitals come from the raging pan-demic, not from the lockdown. If there was never a lockdown, there'd still be a raging pan-demic and full hospitals. Many public health experts at the start of the pan-demic talked about how excess deaths would be a very important measure of the total death toll of the pand-emic because the pand-emic would make people more hesitant to seek care and less able to access care and also because actual CV deaths might be undercounted if people died at home and the cause of death was unclear.

But why consider what is really happening when you could try to twist facts to fit your narrative.
 

Dobre

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,135
People with high-risk jobs are now eligible for Pfizer's booster shots. (I've seen confirmation of this for health care workers & teachers already. I assume it includes people in food-processing plants & day care at least, but if you are looking into a particular type of employment, maybe try googling that job & booster shots). People with high-risk medical conditions are also eligible. As far as I can tell, these boosters are only for people who had Pfizer initially, correct?

C.D.C. Chief Overrules Agency Panel and Recommends Pfizer-BioNTech Boosters for Workers at Risk​


"The director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention on Friday overruled a recommendation by an agency advisory panel that had refused to endorse booster shots of the Pfizer-BioNTech ********* vaccine for frontline workers. It was a highly unusual move for the director, Dr. Rochelle Walensky, but aligned C.D.C. policy with the Food and Drug Administration’s endorsements over her own agency’s advisers.

The C.D.C.’s Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices on Thursday recommended the boosters for a wide range of Americans, including tens of millions of older adults and younger people at high risk for the disease. But they excluded health care workers, teachers and others whose jobs put them at risk. That put their recommendations at odds with the F.D.A.’s authorization of booster shots for all adults with a high occupational risk.

Dr. Walensky’s decision was a boost for President Biden’s campaign to give a broad segment of Americans access to boosters."
 

Dobre

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,135
Wisconsin has now given enough doses to cover 60% of the total population.

North Dakota has now given enough doses to cover 50% of the total population.


Yesterday:

Alaska reports nearly 1,800 new *********-19 cases and 44 deaths, in part due to backlog​


Alaska has been averaging well over 100 cases per 100K this week:(, though not as high as currently reported by the NYT (143 cases per 100K), which included this backlog.
 

Dobre

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,135
I was wondering if there might be a serious article somewhere about the challenge the world is now facing in getting the remaining countries vaccinated? The average vaccination rate worldwide is starting to slow, and while I know that production & cost are two major obstacles for many countries, I also assume that's a simplification. Some of the lowest vaccination levels are in countries with corrupt extremist leadership, for example. I've read about donations the U.S. has made to Covax, but don't have links to sites detailing donations from other countries. China made a statement, maybe in early summer?, that it would donate a billion doses, but thus far, I've seen no update on that. A lot of Eastern European countries are still down in the 20th or 30th percentile for vaccinations. Central America, Mexico, and a chunk of Latin America are still down in the 30th percentile. Anyway, it's clear there are some serious political challenges to go along with the financial & production ones. Then I figure there are practical distribution challenges as well. I was just wondering if anyone had run across a more detailed article that addresses the larger challenge. If boosters were/are really a problem, it seems like this would be a month when there should be a big push to get Africa & those other remaining low-vaccinated countries vaccinated. Instead the world vaccination rate is dropping.
 

MacMadame

Doing all the things
Messages
43,195
This is an interesting article about the cv end-game. The author is local to me so I see her on tv a lot as a talking head. She tends to be a tad overly optimistic about human behavior but mostly knows what she's talking about:


An excerpt about immunity from vaccines that I would like to see be reported on more:

Antibodies generated by the vaccines naturally wane, but the vaccines generate memory B cells, which produce high levels of neutralizing antibodies if they see the ***** or its variants again. Memory B cells, once generated, are long-lasting. A 2008 Nature study found that survivors of the 1918 influenza ********* were able to produce antibodies from memory B cells when their blood samples were exposed to the same influenza strain nine decades later. T cells generated by the vaccines also protect us from severe disease and are unfazed by the variants. As the ***** continues to circulate, those who are older or immunocompromised will need a booster shot, but most people will be protected due to the fact that the pathogen will be more rarely confronted.
 

SkateSand

Cat Servant
Messages
1,338
Well, if I had any doubts that this county is done done done with masking, today was the proof. Despite six CV deaths yesterday, one only thirty years old and a couple only forty and fifty, not a mask to be seen at the Honey Bee Festival - which I fully expected since it's outdoors so even typical mask wearers would be likely to abstain. But Home Depot, which has a huge sign outside the store saying masks are mandatory (no mention of vaccine exceptions), only the employees were wearing masks - not a single one of the customers. And at Winco grocery store, which requires masks for unvaccinated per their sign, and I've seen pretty good compliance in the past, not anymore. There were very few masks, and only on those who were elderly or had visible health issues.
 

Dobre

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,135
Cases have been going back up in the UK and Russia this past week.

Japan, OTOH, is crushing their last surge & is down to a 3,000 case average.
 

mackiecat

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,526
I am glad I got Moderna in terms of efficacy, but I was sick for 2-3 days after I received each shot. Not fun. Not sure if I would go for a booster shot at this point...or at least I would know I would have to take a week off work just in case I get the same side effects again. I just love people who get to brag about how all they got was a sore arm. They don't care about your side effects (at least in my experience in people I deal with. lol).

Side note re: side effects--I find it interesting that no one contacts you (or at least me) after you get the shot and asks how you feel, any side effects, etc. Or perhaps that's because I went to a local pharmacy. But does no one (i.e., the manufacturer) not care about people's experiences for future reference? Or it's up to the individual to reach out?
I got emailed surveys after each shot asking about the side effects I felt.
 

once_upon

Vaccinated
Messages
19,463
Side note re: side effects--I find it interesting that no one contacts you (or at least me) after you get the shot and asks how you feel, any side effects, etc. Or perhaps that's because I went to a local pharmacy. But does no one (i.e., the manufacturer) not care about people's experiences for future reference? Or it's up to the individual to reach out?
As soon as I left the place I got my vaccine, I got a text to ask me to participate in a survey/follow up done by the CDC. They had me fill out an online survey on day 1, day 3, day 7, day 10 and reminded me to make my next appointment (I had already), same after 2 shot. Then followed up one month after second shot.

It's been 6 months since the last vaccination and they sent me another follow-up survey.
 

mackiecat

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,526
South Carolina cards everyone also for alcohol purchases.

Cracked me up watching my DH, in his 40s at the time, get carded.
The grocery chain Meijers IDs everyone when it was giving out wine samples. They also require ID to purchase CDs with explicit language. I found that out was purchasing Drake’s Views album and was asked for ID to prove that I was not under the age of 17. I was with my 18 year old child and was 48 years old.
 

FGRSK8

Toad whisperer.....
Messages
20,053
The daily death count seems to have peaked and is beginning a decline In the US.

I am amazed at how good the curve fitting was in forecasting the timing of the peak and the numbers expected.

One thing I am watching is the curious second spike in the UK data. I haven’t seen this in any other of the European data so am not sure what is causing this secondary spike….another variant?
 

missing

Well-Known To Whom She Wonders
Messages
4,464
The daily death count seems to have peaked and is beginning a decline In the US.

I am amazed at how good the curve fitting was in forecasting the timing of the peak and the numbers expected.

One thing I am watching is the curious second spike in the UK data. I haven’t seen this in any other of the European data so am not sure what is causing this secondary spike….another variant?
I think it's best to imagine the United States as 52 nation states rather than one single country.

When it's looked at as 52 entities, one can see why the daily death count has declined and will continue to do so for a while.

During the summer, among the states hardest hit by Delta were Texas and Florida, the second and third most populated states in the U.S. Now that Delta is moving towards northern red states, there are fewer people to be infected.

I assume Delta will hit northern blue states at some point (my guess would be December-January thanks to weather and the holidays) and the numbers will go up again because there are simply more people in California, New York, Pennsylvania and New Jersey than there are in South Dakota or Wyoming (or Alaska, which is also being hard hit).
 

MacMadame

Doing all the things
Messages
43,195
I assume Delta will hit northern blue states at some point (my guess would be December-January thanks to weather and the holidays) and the numbers will go up again because there are simply more people in California, New York, Pennsylvania and New Jersey than there are in South Dakota or Wyoming (or Alaska, which is also being hard hit).
California has already had our spike from Delta.
 

SkateSand

Cat Servant
Messages
1,338
Because my red county is behind this blue state as a whole, I expect it will be a while before our cases drop.
 

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