News & Experiences continued

skategal

Bunny mama
Messages
7,829
The "AstraZeneca vaccinated people can't see Bruce Springsteen!!!" news has made it into top news in Germany btw.

Personally I think that might be more of a marketing stunt in the long run.

I didn't even know that Bruce Springsteen has a broadway show until last week :shuffle:
It’s one of the top news stories in Canada as well.

The Prime Minister even had to address it during a press conference yesterday. :shuffle:
 

sk8pics

Well-Known Member
Messages
8,340
The state of emergency in Delaware expires around July 13, I think. Most people are not wearing masks in stores any more. I’m wearing my mask when I go shopping only because the spaces are kind of small or there’s a lot of people, and I don’t know their vaccination status. It’s no big deal to me and no one is giving me a second look, or at least I don’t think so. I’ll probably continue to do that.

In the Blood Bank here where I just started volunteering, we’re required to wear masks in donor areas but not otherwise. I’m expecting that will change after July 13, but we’ll see.
 

clairecloutier

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,574
"The CDC is concerned about the delta variant mutating to a point where it evades the existing *********-19 vaccines, according to [Rochelle] Walensky [CDC director]." She says that right now, though, vaccines are working, and people need to keep getting them.


Walensky also talks about observed cases of myocarditis (heart inflammation) in young people, apparently due to the vaccines.
 

Buzz

Socialist Canada
Messages
34,460
Ontario had 318 new cases with 12 new deaths and a positivity rate of 1.7. There is also a push to administer dose 2 of the vaccines because fully vaccinated people have the best chance against the new delta variant.
 

Dobre

Well-Known Member
Messages
10,102
Per the Oregon dashboard, the state reached 50% fully vaccinated today. (Bloomberg has us at 51%).

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Per this tweet, the Delta variant in the U.S. has risen from 10% to 30% of cases in the last week. Plus, Delta is now over 96% of cases in the UK, Russia, and Portugal.

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Vermont has now given enough vaccinations to cover over 70% of its total population.
 

Dobre

Well-Known Member
Messages
10,102

********* Cases In Moscow Hit Record High For Second Straight Day​

(From yesterday).

"Russia's capital Moscow on Saturday reported a ********* high for new ******** cases for the second straight day, while Saint Petersburg introduced fresh restrictions ahead of its Euro 2020 matches."


"Moscow's hospitals were flooded with new patients due to the Delta variant, registering 9,120 new ******** infections in 24 hours, according to government figures. That made it a second consecutive high, topping the previous day's total of 9,056 cases."


Also, on Tokyo . . .

"The ********* is also casting a shadow over the Tokyo Olympics which will start in just over a month.

The Japanese capital's governor said Saturday the city would cancel all public viewing events.

Rather than setting up six planned viewing sites, 'we will make greater use of the web to create exciting atmospheres for the Games,' Yuriko Koike said."
 

Louis

Private citizen
Messages
15,736
1. Delta looks to be extremely transmissible. Brushing past someone in a shopping centre. :yikes:

Hand on heart, on the four days on which the NHS estimates I contracted delta, I was 1) at home, 2) at the park (without a mask), or 3) at the grocery store, with a mask, for two periods of no more than 15 minutes each.

If I go back two previous days, I add in exposure to six individuals (4 on one day and 2 on another day), all of whom I saw outdoors, all of whom are least half vaccinated, and all of whom have since tested negative. Three of us sat outside at a pub and had a beer and chips. The waitress wore a mask.

No public transport. No indoor dining. No large groups -- e.g., I wasn't on Oxford Street. I either got this from the park, or possibly from outdoor dining - though I shared the dish with someone who has tested negative. (Maybe his vaccine protected him, while mine didn't?)

I really don't blame countries for adding quarantine or travel bans of countries where Delta is present.
 

Orm Irian

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,143
Two things from the video below:

1. Delta looks to be extremely transmissible. Brushing past someone in a shopping centre. :yikes:
2. Australia’s contact tracing system is incredible. :eek:

We're all very proud of them. Though I'll acknowledge that it's rather easier to be super-effective at contact tracing when your overall case count is as low as ours is. Victoria's contact tracers did get overwhelmed at the start of their second wave last year, but we've all learned a lot from that experience and every state has improved its standard further since then. And the QR code sign-in systems for public locations are a HUGE help.
 

Dobre

Well-Known Member
Messages
10,102
1. Delta looks to be extremely transmissible. Brushing past someone in a shopping centre. :yikes:
I read this yesterday. It is scary. I couldn't help but wonder why the brushing past was considered significant rather than the fact that they were breathing in the same indoor space. Or touching things in the same indoor space (possibly one with air conditioning). Are we to understand that the people involved weren't breathing in the same indoor space for longer than a few seconds? I understand that they weren't close to each other for longer than that. But once you breath inside a building, your germs are there for a while. So I wasn't clear on whether these people were really just passing through that air space for mere seconds or whether they were lingering in the same air space, albeit clearly not at the same time?
 

Dobre

Well-Known Member
Messages
10,102
Wyoming dropped down to yellow on the NPR map today. Missouri moved back up to orange, making it now the only state on the map in orange. Currently Missouri has 11 cases per 100K. There are currently 4 states with average case numbers going up two weeks in a row. One of them--Utah--has had a rise in case numbers for three weeks.
 

Miezekatze

Well-Known Member
Messages
15,744
I read this yesterday. It is scary. I couldn't help but wonder why the brushing past was considered significant rather than the fact that they were breathing in the same indoor space. Or touching things in the same indoor space (possibly one with air conditioning). Are we to understand that the people involved weren't breathing in the same indoor space for longer than a few seconds? I understand that they weren't close to each other for longer than that. But once you breath inside a building, your germs are there for a while. So I wasn't clear on whether these people were really just passing through that air space for mere seconds or whether they were lingering in the same air space, albeit clearly not at the same time?
Unless all Australians wear GPS tracker non stop, I really don't know how the contact tracers want to know how long which people in a mall passed each other?

As you already said, id guess aerosols is the much more likely cause for the transmission. They can linger longish times indoors and not even only with Delta.

You also can get infected when you enter a bathroom or elevator or staircase in a building and someone infectious was there shortly before you.

It doesn't surprise me, once I waited outside the riding stable bathroom and when the girl before me got out everything still smelled of her chewing gum.
 

Dobre

Well-Known Member
Messages
10,102
Well, in the case of Australia, there are so few cases that it sounds like they know exactly who was infected & exactly to whom it was given. Therefore, they can get very specific in their observations.

I'm just not clear, based on the reports I've read/seen of this particular story, whether the mode of transmission is being reported with its emphasis on the right thing. Is Delta more transmissible? The evidence says yes. Is it more transmissible because it can be passed from one person to another within seconds? I don't know that that is clear based on the accounts I've seen/read. Maybe it can be? Or maybe it hangs in the air longer? Maybe you don't need as much exposure to become infected. Maybe it's a combination. I can't tell based on what I've seen & read here.

I do think it would be beneficial for people to understand either way, both because people take the 15-minute advice seriously when assessing risk and because there are a lot of people who seem to think it's perfectly fine to take their masks off inside a building and put them on after someone enters their workspace, not realizing that their germs are already in the air.
 

skategal

Bunny mama
Messages
7,829
Well, in the case of Australia, there are so few cases that it sounds like they know exactly who was infected & exactly to whom it was given. Therefore, they can get very specific in their observations.

I'm just not clear, based on the reports I've read/seen of this particular story, whether the mode of transmission is being reported with its emphasis on the right thing. Is Delta more transmissible? The evidence says yes. Is it more transmissible because it can be passed from one person to another within seconds? I don't know that that is clear based on the accounts I've seen/read. Maybe it can be? Or maybe it hangs in the air longer? Maybe you don't need as much exposure to become infected. Maybe it's a combination. I can't tell based on what I've seen & read here.

I do think it would be beneficial for people to understand either way, both because people take the 15-minute advice seriously when assessing risk and because there are a lot of people who seem to think it's perfectly fine to take their masks off inside a building and put them on after someone enters their workspace, not realizing that their germs are already in the air.
For the cases In Australia, they had video surveillance of a couple of the encounters because they were in a mall, grocery store, and in front of a cafe and security cameras picked up the encounters.

I think they were basing a lot of their theories on that footage.
 

Miezekatze

Well-Known Member
Messages
15,744
Well, in the case of Australia, there are so few cases that it sounds like they know exactly who was infected & exactly to whom it was given. Therefore, they can get very specific in their observations.

I'm just not clear, based on the reports I've read/seen of this particular story, whether the mode of transmission is being reported with its emphasis on the right thing. Is Delta more transmissible? The evidence says yes. Is it more transmissible because it can be passed from one person to another within seconds? I don't know that that is clear based on the accounts I've seen/read. Maybe it can be? Or maybe it hangs in the air longer? Maybe you don't need as much exposure to become infected. Maybe it's a combination. I can't tell based on what I've seen & read here.

I do think it would be beneficial for people to understand either way, both because people take the 15-minute advice seriously when assessing risk and because there are a lot of people who seem to think it's perfectly fine to take their masks off inside a building and put them on after someone enters their workspace, not realizing that their germs are already in the air.

I'm not really sure what help that is in eliminating risk, because it just shows it's practically impossible anyway.

When the ***** was in Germany for the very first time, that was a very early outbreak in early 2020 (that was in January 2020 ,a sole outbreak at a company that was visited by an infected Chinese woman who held a seminar), so they had all contacts and they also did a very thorough analysis. One guy apparently got infected when he sat back to back with another man in the cafeteria and quickly turned around to ask him for a salt shaker. So they had a like a second of face to face contact, when the salt was handed over (I assume with some "yeah sure", "thanks" type exchange. I think it's probably a matter of timing, if someone speaks or exhales at the wrong moment it happens quickly. Also in both cases "walking by each other" and "exchanging salt" you still can't be 100% sure though if it was the face to face contact or if a superspreader had just left aerosols already.

But in terms of assessing risks:
Australians are probably not going to start wearing masks forever everywhere even if there's no current case and no lockdown, because the ***** is endemic in the rest of the world and might show up again (which it probably will). Nor people in countries where the ***** is endemic already anyway.

For me that only shows that over-managing risk doesn't really make sense anymore once one is fully vaccinated, because you can continue being careful and then get infected anyway while grocery shopping.
In the same way it also makes no real sense to be fully vaccinated and attend family gatherings, birthday parties, indoor sports, workplace office settings again and continue worrying about getting infected while quickly walking by a stranger. People are obviously going to take much bigger risks while resuming normal life.
 

manhn

Well-Known Member
Messages
13,560
If someone got sick just randomly walking by a stranger (assuming they were all masked, as it was indoors, but not sure if mask wearing is required in Australia due to their low numbers), wouldn't wayy more people be sick?
 

Orm Irian

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,143
If someone got sick just randomly walking by a stranger (assuming they were all masked, as it was indoors, but not sure if mask wearing is required in Australia due to their low numbers), wouldn't wayy more people be sick?
Depends on whether the infected person is a superspreader or the infected just got unlucky.

But to be blunt, the reason the reporting is focussed on the brief point of contact is because the federal government and therefore also the NSW government refuse to fully accept that this bug is airborne. If they did that, they’d be forced to accept that hotels are not fit for purpose re quarantine and then they might feel obliged to stop forcing the states and territories to take over their constitutional obligation to manage biosecurity and quarantine, and build dedicated, airgapped quarantine facilities around the country.

Our contact tracers may be outstanding but the people currently in charge of the country are very much not.
 

skategal

Bunny mama
Messages
7,829
If someone got sick just randomly walking by a stranger (assuming they were all masked, as it was indoors, but not sure if mask wearing is required in Australia due to their low numbers), wouldn't wayy more people be sick?
I don’t think wearing a mask is required indoors in Australia or was required at the time of the outbreak.
 

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