News & Experiences continued

Jenny

From the Bloc
Messages
21,399
In Germany numbers are now finally improving more clearly :cheer2: , but I'm a bit worried we'll immediately ruin it by being too uncautious with reopening schools in February :shuffle:

The good thing is that there doesn't seem to have been a significant increase from Christmas

The daily numbers are going down in parts of Canada too, but I fear that it, and the prospect of getting vaccinated soonish, will make (some) think that they don't have to be as vigilant or cautious. Even the improved daily numbers are way, way higher than the numbers just a few months ago.
 

Hedwig

WoolSilk Fanatic
Messages
18,622
The daily numbers are going down in parts of Canada too, but I fear that it, and the prospect of getting vaccinated soonish, will make (some) think that they don't have to be as vigilant or cautious. Even the improved daily numbers are way, way higher than the numbers just a few months ago.
that is one of the things Dr Drosten warned against a few weeks ago. That at one point we will come to a point when so many people are vaccinated that it is not really feasible to keep things closed and that then the infections will rise through the general population like the wind. That will then mostly be younger and healthy people (and those that refused to get vaccinated but I - at that point - don't care about them so much) but even though most of that population will not suffer greatly from the infection, some will. And if the infection rate is very very high, there could again be a strain on the health system and many younger people dying.
to be honest, I am quite afraid of that and will not relax the general precaution until I am vaccinated even if and when I would be allowed to.
But that might not help a lot since my son will go to school by then - probably regularly - and might bring it home. And I really don't want to deal with anything like long-*********....
 

skategal

Bunny mama
Messages
7,287
Schools haven’t been a big driver of infection in Canada

However, where ever there has been in person school, there have been masks mandated as well as bubbling for individual classes, increased handwashing/hand sanitizer routines, removing positive cases and close contacts from class and closing the schools for a few days for deep cleaning when a Positive case has been identified.

This seems to be keeping infection low in the school setting here.

Lots of extra work for teachers and staff though. My hat is off to them. Unsung heroes of the crud.
 

Habs

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,510
Schools haven’t been a big driver of infection in Canada

However, where ever there has been in person school, there have been masks mandated as well as bubbling for individual classes, increased handwashing/hand sanitizer routines, removing positive cases and close contacts from class and closing the schools for a few days for deep cleaning when a Positive case has been identified.

This seems to be keeping infection low in the school setting here.

Lots of extra work for teachers and staff though. My hat is off to them. Unsung heroes of the crud.
I agree. Teachers and school staff have been amazing.

We're very happy with the efforts at Mini-Habs's school. Cases have been minimal, no in-school spread at all, and everyone is taking it seriously. It feels safe there and she's thrilled that she can be at school. She doesn't even mind wearing a mask all day, as long as we send spares for her to change into after recess and lunch.
 

allezfred

Lipinski Stole My Catchphrase
Staff member
Messages
57,589
Schools in Ireland weren’t big drivers of infection either. It wasn’t until our government decided to open up hospitality and home visits in December that things went up shit creek.
 

Miezekatze

Well-Known Member
Messages
15,518
that is one of the things Dr Drosten warned against a few weeks ago. That at one point we will come to a point when so many people are vaccinated that it is not really feasible to keep things closed and that then the infections will rise through the general population like the wind. That will then mostly be younger and healthy people (and those that refused to get vaccinated but I - at that point - don't care about them so much) but even though most of that population will not suffer greatly from the infection, some will. And if the infection rate is very very high, there could again be a strain on the health system and many younger people dying.
to be honest, I am quite afraid of that and will not relax the general precaution until I am vaccinated even if and when I would be allowed to.
But that might not help a lot since my son will go to school by then - probably regularly - and might bring it home. And I really don't want to deal with anything like long-*********....

That is why I think it would be better if politicians already started discussing such issues and scenarios now, instead of always looking backwards and only 2 weeks in the future, so that we don't get magically surprised by it in like June or July :shuffle: (i know it's not possible to discuss what will happen, cause we don't know, but I think discussing such things in advance already helps for everybody to at least understand what can happen, instead of being "surprised" for the 20th time in this *********.

I'm not as worried about it as you, but that's obviously because people without children are highly priviledged in regards to this. You can't protect yourself as long as your kid goes to school, no matter how careful you are

Schools haven't been "big drivers" in Germany either. But ever since schools are closed IMO the numbers are dropping drastically (the rules for people visiting each other and other things haven't changed that much in Germany).

As ballettmaus pointed out the hygiene concepts for schools with children up to age 10 leave room for improvements in Germany. I don't think they fit with the additional mutation risk. Angela Merkels wish is to keep schools closed at least until mid February to be on the safer side, but not all states agree and she can't force them.
 

Hedwig

WoolSilk Fanatic
Messages
18,622
I still maintain that the biggest effect of schools closing for the younger kids is that the parents then stay home. At the moment we have an abysmal work from home rate and this is mostly due to bosses thinking that people dont work if they dont see them. :rolleyes:
 

missing

Well-Known To Whom She Wonders
Messages
3,931
Worse Than We Imagined: Team Trump Left Biden A CV19 Nightmare

The Biden administration came into power with purpose and an extensive agenda to combat the ******** *********, but purpose and planning only gets you so far—particularly when the president’s team is only just now getting a clear picture of how badly the previous administration had managed the crisis.

“What we’re inheriting from the Trump administration is so much worse than we could have imagined,” Jeff Zients, the Biden administration’s *********-19 czar, said in a call with reporters Wednesday. “We don't have the visibility that we would hope to have into supply and allocations.”

“I think we have to level-set expectations,” added Tom Frieden, the former director for the Centers for Disease Control in the Obama administration. “There are lots of things that an incoming administration can do on Day One, including speaking honestly about the *********.”

The new administration is already behind, in part because the Trump administration was unprecedentedly hostile during the transition. The question now, however, is how Biden can get a handle on a raging ********* when his team is already so far behind.
 

Miezekatze

Well-Known Member
Messages
15,518
I still maintain that the biggest effect of schools closing for the younger kids is that the parents then stay home. At the moment we have an abysmal work from home rate and this is mostly due to bosses thinking that people dont work if they dont see them. :rolleyes:
Yeah and I'm really mad that the government won't or can't force employers to change that. The new rules still aren't real "forcing". Just more of "we really really ask you to..."

It shouldn't be easier to close schools than to force employers to allow their employers to work from home wherever it is possible.

Switzerland did it the other way round now again, making home office mandatory and keeping schools open.

Luckily my employer is really responsible, everybody has to work from home.
 

Dobre

Well-Known Member
Messages
9,406
“We don't have the visibility that we would hope to have into supply and allocations.”
What does this mean?

There are only two companies providing supply at the moment. Wouldn't those companies know how much they have allocated to the U.S. & how much has already been distributed?

I can easily see how keeping track of the situation on the reverse side--how much the states have received & distributed--would be much more complex. (Though the tracker systems are attempting to do this).
 

Dave of the North

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,516
Stay safe neighbour! We are doing pretty well (knock on wood) in Nova Scotia plus I live in the health zone (Eastern) that has had the fewest cases in the province.

The Edmundston region has a border with Maine and with Quebec and there a number of people who work across the border and vice versa. They had 11 new cases yesterday and 19 more today. I think they are at risk of being put into a more strict lockdown.

Our zone had 3 , 2 , and 3 the last three days. I'm not sure of the criteria to get back to orange - probably a few days of zero cases and the outbreak at the nursing home being considered under control. I think they will test everyone again there tomorrow.
 
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Dave of the North

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,516
What does this mean?

There are only two companies providing supply at the moment. Wouldn't those companies know how much they have allocated to the U.S. & how much has already been distributed?

I can easily see how keeping track of the situation on the reverse side--how much the states have received & distributed--would be much more complex. (Though the tracker systems are attempting to do this).

It means the same thing as when any new party takes over the government in any country:

"I know we promised the moon, the sun, stars, but those b*stards made a worse mess of everything than we ever imagined was possible, so we're going to start walking back all our lofty goals."

Lather, rinse, and repeat. :lol:
 

once_upon

Well-Known Member
Messages
17,940
What does this mean?

There are only two companies providing supply at the moment. Wouldn't those companies know how much they have allocated to the U.S. & how much has already been distributed?

I can easily see how keeping track of the situation on the reverse side--how much the states have received & distributed--would be much more complex. (Though the tracker systems are attempting to do this).
I think it goes back to what states and healthcare systems have been saying for a month. I believe the Trump people were saying the states had the vaccines but were not administering them for over a month. The states and health systems were/are saying we don't have vaccines.
 

FGRSK8

Toad whisperer.....
Messages
19,703
The numbers are definitely easing in some portions of the world. I like to see at least a week of such data before declaring that things are definitely improving. I have seen too many times in the last year, where a week lull turns around and cases increase again.
 

AJ Skatefan

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,566
It means the same thing as when any new party takes over the government in any country:

"I know we promised the moon, the sun, stars, but those b*stards made a worse mess of everything than we ever imagined was possible, so we're going to start walking back all our lofty goals."

Lather, rinse, and repeat. :lol:
Except in this case I believe the Biden administration is telling the truth.
 

Susan1

Well-Known Member
Messages
9,728
Ohio 1/21/21

From the noon news -

"After administering the first doses, ODH said SpecialtyRX had 890 doses remaining. The company was exploring a transfer of the doses to another provider when it was discovered that they had failed to appropriately monitor temperatures in their refrigerator and freezer, according to ODH." In the questions, DeWine said he was infuriated and that this particular nursing home is one of the few that did not use the network of four pharmacies that have the experience and follow the protocols that have worked out so well.

I forgot to attach the first thing he was talking about while our anchor was talking -
" state trooper with more than 23 years of service to the Ohio State Highway Patrol has passed away after a battle with ********.

Trooper Bradley Huffman passed away Wednesday night after being hospitalized, the state patrol said.

Huffman served at both the Xenia Post and the Piqua District Commercial Enforcement Unit during his career with the patrol.

The veteran trooper began experiencing symptoms associated with the ***** and quarantined. He ended up testing positive and was taken to the hospital after his health declined rapidly.

Huffman spent just over two weeks in the hospital before he passed away."

Started out with two women in Akron, one 81 year old woman in Cincinnati (public health department) and an 84 year old woman in a clinic in Lawrence county (most southern "point" of Ohio getting their shots on camera. They were in an old school auditorium and did 400 vaccines yesterday.

Twitter - "Today we are announcing a new partnership involving Abbott and eMed to bring rapid, reliable testing into the home. Ohio will purchase at least 2M at-home BinaxNow c.v. rapid antigen tests that can be self-administered with results in about 15 minutes. Through an agreement with eMed to provide telehealth services, an individual who uses one of these tests can be guided by a proctor and will get the results in minutes, without having to visit a testing location. This new agreement allows communities to more aggressively test for *********-19 than at any other time during this *********. This $50 million investment of CARES Act funding will help make testing more broadly available." (Me - how does a person get one at home in a timely manner? The CEO was Zoomed in and she didn’t say either.) He also said it could be used for an outbreak at a factory. I wrote "reliability?" Later someone asked that because of his false positive test. Dr. Vanderhoff said they have evolved (how?) and they have a high degree of confidence. He said a negative test does not mean you can go about your business, and that a positive test is more reliably positive. He said DeWine's false positive was "extremely rare". (Remember, this positive test was the reason he did not go meet trump on a campaign stop, so alrighty then.) Reporter asked if test results will be reported. Yes.

Another reporter's twitter - "We're making this available to health depts around the state...this is gonna give us a new tool" to be more aggressive in fighting the *********. DeWine says the tests will be recommended for strategic use, i.e. rapid testing in schools or for first responders." Local health departments have asked for these tests.

All numbers are going up again - 7,271 cases / 306 hospitalizations / 35 ICU / 109 deaths-7 day average is 74.

"Thankfully, no county is seeing their status worsen. We have 83 counties at red, 4 counties at orange, and 1 county still at purple." High Incidence numbers are going down but still too high. "Out of any 200 Ohioans, at least 1 has tested positive for ********* during the past 2 weeks. We still have more than 1 out of 4 patients who are ********* positive in our ICUs. "Numbers have "come down a little bit" across the state, "but they are still very high.""

He said last week schools were reporting 1/3, 1/3 and 1/3 in attendance. Now 42% are going in person 5 days a week, 1/3 hybrid and 23.8% remote. Vaccinating adult school employees will start Feb. 1. It will take awhile too.

Husted - "thanks the Ohio business community & says state has relied on them through the *********. The state continues to receive donations of millions of face masks and shields, and hand sanitizer. Mostly largely companies like @HomeDepot (250K disposable masks) and @AnheuserBusch, etc." Also mentioned Ford, GM, Fiat Chrysler, Lowe's. Is going to visit a manufacturer of medical grade masks in Jackson, Ohio.

Unemployment - ODJFS was upgrading their systems, which wasn't supposed to be done till the end of this year, when the c.v. hit and they had to come up with a whole new system. Of the regular 1.7M claims, 44K were flagged for fraud. Of the of 1.4 million ********* unemployment system (people who do not usually qualify) claims, 796,000 were flagged for fraud. If you get notified that you filed for a claim, like he did, go to the unemployment compensation website to report it. There is a big red button to click on. And a bunch of stuff about the system not being on the cloud. ODJFS has gone from ~420 employees to ~1,800. They hope to be up to 2,500 by March.

Q&A -

Curfew - "Ohio's 10:00PM curfew "unfortunately, is going to have to stay...we'd love to take it to 11 o'clock, but we're just not there." He says even with numbers trending downward, they remain too high to back off the curfew. People are anxious, people who own bars or restaurants or want to go there...I get it, but we're not there yet. As Governor, I have to try to keep this ***** down while we're getting the vaccines out...the way out of this, in the end, will be the vaccine." (Me - are people stupid or what <stupid question>. They put restrictions in place and the numbers go down, they take away restrictions and the numbers go up. Why is that so hard to understand?) A reporter said a bar owner said they can promote social distancing just as well at 1 a.m. as they can at 9:30 p.m.

This reporter's twitter I found must have a voice activated typing system or whatever. (Am I allowed to copy this stuff? I couldn't do all this. Maybe I should just direct everybody there. He does have some interesting comments below, not as good as mine though.) - "DeWine is asked, once again, for proof the curfew is working: "We based this on the science: when we hit the winter months...c.v. spreads more inside. Your business, unfortunately people cannot wear a mask as they're eating/drinking. You do a good job; this is not your fault." The best experts said close bars, restaurants...state after state had done it...Dr. Birx said 'you really need to close your bars.' We didn't do it. What we did is a compromise. We cut off some time...there's nothing magical about 10PM." "With the new variant...we're going to see more action in the future, and with cases still at a very high rate, we cannot at this point change the curfew — as much as I would like to do that."

And teachers and students wear masks in school and there is no spread noted there. Since the curfew and masking in retail the numbers went down.

Asked about vaccinating parents with immunocompromised children: "We're looking at every week now, somewhere between 100-130,000 vaccines we can put out to people who are elderly...if we give it to somebody else, we'd be crowding those individuals out."

Ohio chief medical officer Dr. Bruce Vanderhoff: "The reality is, there is not enough vaccine for that today...what do the data tell us about who is most likely to die if they contract c.v.? And that answer clearly lines up with advancing age."

DeWine on continuing unemployment issues: "To everyone who's had trouble, we apologize...when we took office, it was clear we had to get (unemployment system) on the cloud. That has started, but I'm told it will not finish till end of the year." He says ********* stunted progress. Husted adds: "I don't blame people for being frustrated...when you're in a difficult situation & not being served w/ speed, frustration builds. There are legitimate reasons from a technology perspective that this has been harder for Ohio...@OhioJFS is working to resolve issues."

Some reporter went on and on about Biden's 100M vaccines in 100 days. Logistics? Defense production act? Was he contacted for someone in Ohio to manufacture supplies? Will the National Guard be able to do it and the other stuff they are doing? Mass vaccination sites? So, all governors were asked what they needed. They wrote letters and they also had a phone call this morning. They all said they need more vaccine. We have enough partners that are ready to distribute it.

And later someone asked him to talk about what he asked for in the letter. (It's out there to read.) DeWine talked about money for broadband, flexibility in how to use money, a national campaign. He said our ad started today. I haven’t seen it yet. There will be a second one in a few days. When asked about educating people, besides the ads, he said counties have work groups on how best to address their county's needs and that word of mouth would make people want to get the vaccine.
 
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FGRSK8

Toad whisperer.....
Messages
19,703
When my Dad was alive, I remember one summer afternoon Dad was in his office upstairs in the Chatham house, talking with Dr. Fauci about some ***** or another. This had to be 15 years ago.

I wish Dad was alive now. I’m sure he would have talked with Dr. Fauci at some point.

I would have had a lot more info to impart here!
 

Susan1

Well-Known Member
Messages
9,728
Fauci just said its refreshing to not make up stuff when you don't know the answer - oh something similar.
Yea, truth and science!
I saw the banner of his quote earlier - something about being able to talk without repercussions.

And here's a little thing from Jan. 19 -

"It hasn’t been easy to stand by facts and science while working under President Trump, Dr. Anthony Fauci said Tuesday.

“It's not a happy day when you have to get up in front of national TV and contradict” what the President says, Fauci said in an interview hosted by the Harvard Business Review. “I take no pleasure in that at all.”

Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, said he made a commitment to tell the truth, no matter what administration he works for. He has served under six presidents.

“It's been particularly problematic here because that would often put me in direct conflict – not emotional conflict, but factual conflict – with what the President might say, so obviously that that has not been an easy thing to do," he said.
 

Dobre

Well-Known Member
Messages
9,406

Reinfections More Likely With New ******** Variants, Evidence Suggests​


There is a resurgence of cases in Manaus, Brazil--an area where up to 76% of the the population had already been infected. One of the theories on the impetus for the resurgence is that it could be due to new variants.

"There's growing evidence that new genetic variants of the ******** — specifically, the ones circulating in South Africa and around Manaus, Brazil — may be capable of evading the body's immune system. Both variants have three of the same mutations in the region of the ***** that binds to human cells and to some antibodies (specifically, K417N, E484K and N501Y). The mutations decrease some antibodies' ability to recognize and neutralize the *****, a team of scientists reported Tuesday in a study on the South African variant. Specifically, the scientists looked at whether the variant from South Africa could be neutralized by blood plasma, which contains antibodies, taken from people who had been infected with older versions of the *****. In 21 of the 44 samples, the new variant was resistant to neutralization by the plasma serum.

And thus, mutations in these new variants could make it easier for some people to get *********-19 a second time, says virologist Ravi Gupta at the University of Cambridge. "We know that you can get reinfected even with the same version of the *****," he says. The mutations could put even more of a dent in the barrier of resistance."
 

Dave of the North

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,516
I think it goes back to what states and healthcare systems have been saying for a month. I believe the Trump people were saying the states had the vaccines but were not administering them for over a month. The states and health systems were/are saying we don't have vaccines.

Yes, I wonder where the disconnect is - CDC is saying today 37 million does have been distributed, and 17 million have been administered. (gap of 20,000,000)

Are the states saying they don't have those 20,000,000 doses even though CDC says they are distributed? Or have they used them all and the reporting hasn't caught up?

Are they in transit? (Is the post office in charge :p? maybe that's why Amazon has offered to help)

Or are they talking about some number of doses over the 37,000,000?

Or are the states saying yes we have those extra doses but they are allocated as second shots, so we need more doses now to vaccinate new people.

For example North Dakota has 39,000 waiting for a second shot but only has 23,000 available

On the other hand Nevada has 76,000 waiting for the second shot, and has 162,000 available.

Fingerpointing...
 

Dobre

Well-Known Member
Messages
9,406
Oregon has given out over 250,000 doses per the local articles today. I don't know how long it has been since the data was saying we had been scheduled for 250,000 doses, but it hasn't been that long. There is always going to be a certain amount of delay between when the state is "scheduled" for doses & when they are sent out, travel, arrive, are redistributed to different county health districts, travel, arrive, are booked for vaccinations, and get into arms.
Yes, I wonder where the disconnect is - CDC is saying today 37 million does have been distributed, and 17 million have been administered. (gap of 20,000,000)

Are the states saying they don't have those 20,000,000 doses even though CDC says they are distributed? Or have they used them all and the reporting hasn't caught up?

Are they in transit?

Or are the states saying yes we have those extra doses but they are allocated as second shots
It is entirely possible that the answer to all of these questions is yes.
 

skatfan

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,321
It means the same thing as when any new party takes over the government in any country:

"I know we promised the moon, the sun, stars, but those b*stards made a worse mess of everything than we ever imagined was possible, so we're going to start walking back all our lofty goals."

Lather, rinse, and repeat. :lol:
No Dave.

In this case the incoming administration was prevented from knowing what was planned or not - they were kept in the dark purposely. Just a couple of weeks ago the Trump administration cocked up an announcement about more vaccine available to States -except they’d already given it out, forcing many places to cancel a lot of appointments.

The states had vaccine distribution dumped on them with not much notice, without any template plans to follow, and no funding or peopefor many places that are overwhelmed with cases already.

in many places, the signups to get a vaccine are so complicated and time-consuming and ableist that the most vulnerable people can’t sign up. How does a disabled person spend three hours on the phone or navigate a computer registration process? Asking folks to check daily to get an appointment is crazy and unproductive.
 

AJ Skatefan

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,566
No Dave.

In this case the incoming administration was prevented from knowing what was planned or not - they were kept in the dark purposely. Just a couple of weeks ago the Trump administration cocked up an announcement about more vaccine available to States -except they’d already given it out, forcing many places to cancel a lot of appointments.

The states had vaccine distribution dumped on them with not much notice, without any template plans to follow, and no funding or peopefor many places that are overwhelmed with cases already.

in many places, the signups to get a vaccine are so complicated and time-consuming and ableist that the most vulnerable people can’t sign up. How does a disabled person spend three hours on the phone or navigate a computer registration process? Asking folks to check daily to get an appointment is crazy and unproductive.
This is SO true!
 

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