News & Experiences continued

spinZZ

Well-Known Member
Messages
172
Only retail selling essential goods may open to the public at maximum 25% capacity. All retail & restaurants may continue to sell for pick up or delivery. Since this was leading to stores like Walmart to be mobbed, they may now only sell said essential goods and must make all non-essential goods inaccessible to in-store shoppers. They were given a couple of days to make that happen before hefty fines would kick in. Stores have put down stacks of pallets to block aisles or literally shrink-wrapped shelves. This is going to cost the stores and therefore all of us in rising prices, but appears to be the only way to deter the crowds and level the playing field for stores that don't sell essentials.

News crews hit parking lots to interview shoppers. One "brilliant" young lady said she didn't think the restrictions were real so she headed to Walmart to buy a TV and Christmas decorations only to be shocked to find out it was all true. She said, "I'm so surprised! I guess the world really has changed. I mean how can you only buy essential things? I'm having anxiety about it." Duh!

There were also 2 other adults in the car with her despite urgings for people to shop solo if at all possible. (Obviously this cannot be a hard and fast rule because people like single parents with young children have little choice in the matter.) I have to say this woman appears to be a prime example of why we have had to be legislated into our current strict restrictions.

Unfortunately not heeding these measures when they were "just" recommendations has cost us in rapidly escalating community spread and, most disastrously, DEATHS of PEOPLE.
Where are you? Did the government come up with an explicit list of which goods are essential? Do the restrictions also apply to supermarkets, pharmacies, and hardware stores (which sell all sorts of stuff too), or just the big box stores?
 

Skate Talker

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7,561
I'm in Manitoba. We have by far the highest number of active cases per capita in Canada right now. Yes the new rules also apply to grocery stores & pharmacies as well as all big box and smaller retailers. There is a list of essential goods & services, which is already under review due to the speed with which the legislation was created. For instance gift cards were considered non-essential but it has been pointed out that some people do not have regular bank accounts or credit cards and therefore would need to be able to purchase gift cards in order to be able to order anything online - something the health advisor and the govt want everyone to do as much as possible.
 

Aceon6

Isolating from mean people
Messages
21,139
My circle is planning an Instagram chronicle of the preparations leading up to sitting down to eat on Thursday. Most of us will be making things we’ve never had to deal with before, so we’re committed to checking in and offering help when it’s needed. Can I replicate my SIL’s fabulous gravy? Will my niece be able to manage the meat stuffing? We have 5 households all making the same items and hoping that we will be ready to Zoom serve at the same time. I’m sure hilarity will ensue.
 

Lizziebeth

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,199
My circle is planning an Instagram chronicle of the preparations leading up to sitting down to eat on Thursday. Most of us will be making things we’ve never had to deal with before, so we’re committed to checking in and offering help when it’s needed. Can I replicate my SIL’s fabulous gravy? Will my niece be able to manage the meat stuffing? We have 5 households all making the same items and hoping that we will be ready to Zoom serve at the same time. I’m sure hilarity will ensue.
that sounds like fun
 

spinZZ

Well-Known Member
Messages
172
I'm in Manitoba. We have by far the highest number of active cases per capita in Canada right now. Yes the new rules also apply to grocery stores & pharmacies as well as all big box and smaller retailers. There is a list of essential goods & services, which is already under review due to the speed with which the legislation was created. For instance gift cards were considered non-essential but it has been pointed out that some people do not have regular bank accounts or credit cards and therefore would need to be able to purchase gift cards in order to be able to order anything online - something the health advisor and the govt want everyone to do as much as possible.
Wow! In the US when nonessential businesses were closed, stores that carried a large mix of goods were given a large unfair advantage. If a business sold obviously essential goods (such as food, drink, and medicine), they were permitted to sell anything else. But if a business were a more restricted shop that sold, e.g., only shoes, only clothing, or only sporting goods, they were forced to close. In my state, I always found it odd that shoe and clothing stores were not considered essential businesses. The argument was that it would be way too complex and way too onerous to generate an item-by-item list of what goods were essential and what goods were nonessential. It will interesting to see how Manitoba handles it.

Anyone else aware of detailed lists issued by a government authority? Are ice cream and candy essential because they are foods? Are the sale of toys banned from in-person shopping, because they are nonessential?
 

once_upon

Voter
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16,663
Yeah in the US, stores like Super Target, Walmart, Costco, Sams were considered essential stores but there weren't any restrictions on what they could sell. So clothing, shoes, TVs could be sold.

Same with places like Menard, Lowes, Home Depot - they could argue that things to repair broken fixtures etc were essential. But they also carried appliances, flooring.

Pharmacies too have wide berth of stuff - not just meds

That meant stores that did not carry essentials - were specialized in say furniture, or shoes, or clothing - things like thrift stores were closed and at a real disadvantage in any recovery.

Don't know where phone or electronics vendors fell in the essential not essential timeline.
 

Aceon6

Isolating from mean people
Messages
21,139
Yeah in the US, stores like Super Target, Walmart, Costco, Sams were considered essential stores but there weren't any restrictions on what they could sell. So clothing, shoes, TVs could be sold.

Same with places like Menard, Lowes, Home Depot - they could argue that things to repair broken fixtures etc were essential. But they also carried appliances, flooring.

Pharmacies too have wide berth of stuff - not just meds

That meant stores that did not carry essentials - were specialized in say furniture, or shoes, or clothing - things like thrift stores were closed and at a real disadvantage in any recovery.

Don't know where phone or electronics vendors fell in the essential not essential timeline.
In our state, the superstores had to rope off their clothing, sporting goods and housewares sections for about 6 weeks. Essential stuff within those departments had to be moved to another area of the store. Electronics were considered essential.
 

rfisher

Let the skating begin
Messages
64,359
Just a reminder of how health care workers are stressed, my first semester sophomore students are emotionally struggling with the elderly patients in the hospital who are alone with no family because of YKW restrictions. Not even the YKW patients, but all the other ailments people are hospitalized or come to the ED for. The impact of YKW is staggering beyond belief. I've worked in health care a long time and I've never witnessed anything remotely like this. Nurses are hard pressed to take care of their patients at any time and frankly depend on family to meet the patient's emotional needs and to help, but these people are now alone and it's taking a toll not only on the patient's recovery, but on the care givers themselves. I just finished reading this months reflective writings and felt simultaneously proud and sad for the student's experiences. Proud at the empathy most had and sad that they had to come to this in the way they did.
 

Susan1

Well-Known Member
Messages
8,752
Don't know where phone or electronics vendors fell in the essential not essential timeline.
Office supply stores were open because so many people were working from home. I had to have an appointment to look at computers at Best Buy in May, and be met at the door by a masked salesman. I don't even remember if people got appointments to look at phones or electronics. I got my computer at Staples - no appointment. And I got my keyboard at Office Depot soon after that - no appointment. I guess Best Buy didn't want people to just be looking around at t.v.s or refrigerators if they were not going to buy.
 

PRlady

Well-Known Member
Messages
35,467
Just a reminder of how health care workers are stressed, my first semester sophomore students are emotionally struggling with the elderly patients in the hospital who are alone with no family because of YKW restrictions. Not even the YKW patients, but all the other ailments people are hospitalized or come to the ED for. The impact of YKW is staggering beyond belief. I've worked in health care a long time and I've never witnessed anything remotely like this. Nurses are hard pressed to take care of their patients at any time and frankly depend on family to meet the patient's emotional needs and to help, but these people are now alone and it's taking a toll not only on the patient's recovery, but on the care givers themselves. I just finished reading this months reflective writings and felt simultaneously proud and sad for the student's experiences. Proud at the empathy most had and sad that they had to come to this in the way they did.
Yes there are nurses in Abington PA having to make my non-communicative confused mom feel ok. Because I can’t. I’m so grateful to them and knowing the hospital is surging, so worried as well.
 

Susan1

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Messages
8,752
My cousin Lynn wrote that her test came back negative. She was just in Columbus last weekend (close contact). And they were waiting to see if she was positive before her daughter got tested because "The test is no fun. They stick a long cotton swab up your nose which smells like pool chemicals, into sinus cavity, eyes water and nose runs."
 

rfisher

Let the skating begin
Messages
64,359
Yes there are nurses in Abington PA having to make my non-communicative confused mom feel ok. Because I can’t. I’m so grateful to them and knowing the hospital is surging, so worried as well.
Have you asked the hospital if you could be there? Ours makes exceptions in the event the patient can't communicate on their own. But, it is on a case-by-case basis.
 

Skate Talker

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,561
Wow! In the US when nonessential businesses were closed, stores that carried a large mix of goods were given a large unfair advantage. If a business sold obviously essential goods (such as food, drink, and medicine), they were permitted to sell anything else. But if a business were a more restricted shop that sold, e.g., only shoes, only clothing, or only sporting goods, they were forced to close. In my state, I always found it odd that shoe and clothing stores were not considered essential businesses. The argument was that it would be way too complex and way too onerous to generate an item-by-item list of what goods were essential and what goods were nonessential. It will interesting to see how Manitoba handles it.

Yeah in the US, stores like Super Target, Walmart, Costco, Sams were considered essential stores but there weren't any restrictions on what they could sell. So clothing, shoes, TVs could be sold.

Same with places like Menard, Lowes, Home Depot - they could argue that things to repair broken fixtures etc were essential. But they also carried appliances, flooring.

Pharmacies too have wide berth of stuff - not just meds

That meant stores that did not carry essentials - were specialized in say furniture, or shoes, or clothing - things like thrift stores were closed and at a real disadvantage in any recovery.
Okay so a couple of things. In the spring when we initially had retail closures and even initially when the first round of "red status" was declared late last month, the same unequal situation with big box stores being able to sell everything existed here. This time after 1 week there was a real recognition that this just wasn't working on so many levels. It just drove massive crowds to big box stores causing more crowding and more chance of transmission, even if only in the parking lots and long line ups. It led to many trying to circumvent the intent of the closures too. Some stores for example suddenly started selling masks along with their other non-essential items so they could keep the store open and continue selling all their goods. It was also going to effectively kill off small business who rely particularly on Christmas sales to keep afloat if they didn't try to get around the law. So basically those are all reasons why the additional essential-goods-only for in-person shopping came into being.

As for the list of what one can & cannot shop for in-store, I don't think it's quite as specific as you imagine. For instance anything considered food, drink, goods used for personal hygiene, medications or health-related goods are allowed. There are some other really broad categories too. In person shopping for items used for food preparation and large appliances are allowed. Winter outerwear is essential here too though not other clothing. If they didn't restrict the in-person sales to essential items a whole lot of stores would have been pretty much operating as usual.

Of course this doesn't mean you cannot buy anything or everything else, only that you will have to shop by phone or internet and either have it delivered or arrange for curbside pickup. To my mind this still gives the big box stores an advantage because they already have an established web shopping network set up.
To help small businesses the govt has also launched a #ShopMB (#ShopLocalMB?) campaign. CBC News Network interviewed a local gift shop owner and she feels both placing restrictions on the big box stores and the shop-local campaign have already been a boon for her business and she is picking up lots of new customers. Some of the goods she sells, like soaps, are actually on the in-person shopping list and until this week would have been enough to enable her to stay open and sell anything in her store, but she had already decided not open her doors because she felt that would be really stretching the intent of the restrictions. Now there is someone I can get behind, imagine that being more concerned with the intent of the restrictions that worrying about how to circumvent them.
 

Dobre

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Messages
8,301
Yes. I can’t. And frankly my moms aide would be more useful in terms of her care although at least I could make sure she’s getting what she needs. :(
Hugs, @PRlady. Your posts today are such a clear example of what really matters in this whole situation and how impossible it feels trying to protect the people we need protected the most.
 

Prancer

Needs More Sleep
Staff member
Messages
50,761
Miscellaneous news.

Perhaps no hospital in the United States was better prepared for a ********* than the University of Nebraska Medical Center in Omaha.

After the SARS outbreak of 2003, its staff began specifically preparing for emerging infections. The center has the nation’s only federal quarantine facility and its largest biocontainment unit, which cared for airlifted Ebola patients in 2014. The people on staff had detailed ********* plans. They ran drills. Ron Klain, who was President Barack Obama’s “Ebola czar” and will be Joe Biden’s chief of staff in the White House, once told me that UNMC is “arguably the best in the country” at handling dangerous and unusual diseases. There’s a reason many of the Americans who were airlifted from the Diamond Princess cruise ship in February were sent to UNMC.

In the past two weeks, the hospital had to convert an entire building into a *********-19 tower, from the top down. It now has 10 *********-19 units, each taking up an entire hospital floor. Three of the units provide intensive care to the very sickest people, several of whom die every day. One unit solely provides “comfort care” to *********-19 patients who are certain to die. “We’ve never had to do anything like this,” Angela Hewlett, the infectious-disease specialist who directs the hospital’s *********-19 team, told me. “We are on an absolutely catastrophic path.”

To hear such talk from someone at UNMC, the best-prepared of America’s hospitals, should shake the entire nation.



The unfortunate ubiquity of mucus is why restaurants, it brings me no pleasure to report, are contributing to the spread of the ********. Indoor public places, including restaurants, played a significant role in the spread of *********-19 this spring, according to scientific analyses of cellphone data. In a September study, people who tested positive for *********-19 were more than twice as likely as those who tested negative to report eating in a restaurant recently. Talking with someone who has *********-19 for 30 minutes or longer—about the time between your bloomin’-onion appetizer and molten-chocolate dessert—more than doubles your odds of catching it.


A study published yesterday in The Lancet Microbe shows that *********-19 is most contagious in the first 5 days after symptom onset, underscoring the importance of early case identification and quarantine.

 

Dobre

Well-Known Member
Messages
8,301
Oregon has a new high of 1,500 today. 200 more than the high from yesterday.

All kinds of counties are struggling now that haven't been previously in the *********. And the most populated counties--which considering their numbers, had really done a good job here of keeping cases stable since contact tracing was employed--seem to have lost their grip. I haven't read yet that contact tracing is overwhelmed here, but with over 400 cases a day in Multnomah County, I can't imagine that is sustainable. Usually the state sends in extra contact tracers to struggling counties, but right now there are too many counties with numbers in the hundreds. And smaller counties with double digit numbers who likely don't have the contact tracers to cover those numbers.

Meanwhile the guy who owns my local grocery store is wearing his mask around his neck while he rings up everyone's groceries:mad:.
 

once_upon

Voter
Messages
16,663
Miscellaneous news.

Perhaps no hospital in the United States was better prepared for a ********* than the University of Nebraska Medical Center in Omaha.

After the SARS outbreak of 2003, its staff began specifically preparing for emerging infections. The center has the nation’s only federal quarantine facility and its largest biocontainment unit, which cared for airlifted Ebola patients in 2014. The people on staff had detailed ********* plans. They ran drills. Ron Klain, who was President Barack Obama’s “Ebola czar” and will be Joe Biden’s chief of staff in the White House, once told me that UNMC is “arguably the best in the country” at handling dangerous and unusual diseases. There’s a reason many of the Americans who were airlifted from the Diamond Princess cruise ship in February were sent to UNMC.

In the past two weeks, the hospital had to convert an entire building into a *********-19 tower, from the top down. It now has 10 *********-19 units, each taking up an entire hospital floor. Three of the units provide intensive care to the very sickest people, several of whom die every day. One unit solely provides “comfort care” to *********-19 patients who are certain to die. “We’ve never had to do anything like this,” Angela Hewlett, the infectious-disease specialist who directs the hospital’s *********-19 team, told me. “We are on an absolutely catastrophic path.”

To hear such talk from someone at UNMC, the best-prepared of America’s hospitals, should shake the entire nation.



The unfortunate ubiquity of mucus is why restaurants, it brings me no pleasure to report, are contributing to the spread of the ********. Indoor public places, including restaurants, played a significant role in the spread of *********-19 this spring, according to scientific analyses of cellphone data. In a September study, people who tested positive for *********-19 were more than twice as likely as those who tested negative to report eating in a restaurant recently. Talking with someone who has *********-19 for 30 minutes or longer—about the time between your bloomin’-onion appetizer and molten-chocolate dessert—more than doubles your odds of catching it.


A study published yesterday in The Lancet Microbe shows that *********-19 is most contagious in the first 5 days after symptom onset, underscoring the importance of early case identification and quarantine.

The UNMC doctors have been pleading for weeks to have a mask mandate here, but Ricketts claims he can't do one.

I"ve been listening to Dr. Rupp - one of the epidemiologist at UNMC since March telling people to follow recommendations. (Just an aside, I remember working with him when he was a med student)
 

Orm Irian

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Messages
880
Our contact tracers here in SA must be superhuman, I swear. We had only one new case today - a returned traveller testing positive late in their quarantine. They're still tracking down some final contacts from security-guard-pizza-maker guy, apparently, but the double ring fencing really seems to be working. I'm so proud of them.
 

cholla

High ground loner
Messages
12,193
In our state, the superstores had to rope off their clothing, sporting goods and housewares sections for about 6 weeks. Essential stuff within those departments had to be moved to another area of the store. Electronics were considered essential.
Same in France. These days, you need to buy underwear or socks = you go commando and barefoot :lol:
 

Susan1

Well-Known Member
Messages
8,752
They interviewed people at the airport on the news. One couple said the plane was safe because they have to wear masks and everything is sanitized. Well, yeah, if you are just going to stay on the plane and fly right back home. "Flying is safe" isn't the point anymore. It's what you do and who you see when you get there. And when you get back. And another woman said she only gets to see her mother a couple times a year. I guess she doesn't want to be able to see her next year. Last Thanksgiving, did people say I miss you so much, see you next Thanksgiving? And forget about them until they just had to defy doctors and health experts now? It's just a day. It's not the only day of the year you are allowed to eat turkey and everything that goes with it. Do people in real life sit around the table and say what they are thankful for on that one day, like they do on t.v.? And not be thankful about anything on any other day of the year?
 

spinZZ

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Messages
172
In our state, the superstores had to rope off their clothing, sporting goods and housewares sections for about 6 weeks. Essential stuff within those departments had to be moved to another area of the store. Electronics were considered essential.
What state is that?
 

spinZZ

Well-Known Member
Messages
172
Same in France. These days, you need to buy underwear or socks = you go commando and barefoot :lol:
But I assume that in France, as in most places, liquor (alcoholic beverages) is essential, even though underwear and socks aren't. Is that correct?
 

Orm Irian

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Messages
880
But I assume that in France, as in most places, liquor (alcoholic beverages) is essential, even though underwear and socks aren't. Is that correct?
I doubt France wants people with alcohol dependencies being forced to go cold turkey while the health care system is already massively overburdened any more than any other country does!
 

MsZem

Well-Known Member
Messages
14,146
Same in France. These days, you need to buy underwear or socks = you go commando and barefoot :lol:
In Israel businesses can sell whatever they have in stock, so long as some portion of their activities is essential. Thus the cheap crap stores were able to stay open due to selling home repair supplies.

Or as someone observed at the time: "soon, supermarkets will offer houseplants and fourth grade classes" :rofl:)

(fourth graders are back in school now)
 

Louis

Private citizen
Messages
15,145
The rules in England are complex, as usual. The short version is if the "non-essential" items are in the same general area as the essential items, people can buy them. If they're in a separate area, they have to be closed. It's completely arbitrary. Laptops and phones are "non-essential." Baby clothes were, too, but the government back-stepped on that.

The various tourist / tchotchke shops in my neighborhood are all open. I guess they must be considered "off-licenses," and maybe there's some alcohol hidden away behind all of the stupid made-in-China posters of the Queen, toy London buses and phone booths, etc.

If this nonsense continues, I fully expect retailers to "diversify" their product lines and re-look at their store footprints to get around any future rules.

I don't see any reason why retail with capacity limits, masks, and sanitizers needs to be shut down.
 

spinZZ

Well-Known Member
Messages
172
In Israel businesses can sell whatever they have in stock, so long as some portion of their activities is essential. Thus the cheap crap stores were able to stay open due to selling home repair supplies.

Or as someone observed at the time: "soon, supermarkets will offer houseplants and fourth grade classes" :rofl:)

(fourth graders are back in school now)
In the US, the distinctions between different businesses are very fuzzy. Many supermarkets in my area do sell potted plants, as well as cut flowers. Many sell socks and underwear, wrapped and placed on a shelf or hung on a wall display. The one I normally go to expanded a few years back, and even sell some seasonal clothing (including coats in winter and swimsuits in summer) on racks, just as in a clothing store. They even sell items such as TVs (first just small ones up to 30" or so, but more recently large ones up to 50" or so), snowthrowers, and generators. They also offer nutrition and diet consultations.

Many major supermarkets here include a pharmacy for prescription drugs, as well as a large selection of over-the-counter medicines. The large pharmacies (such as CVS) retaliated by selling some food basics, such as bread, milk, and eggs (as well as the usual snacks and drinks).
 

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