News & Experiences continued

misskarne

Handy Emergency Backup Mode
Messages
19,311
Shut the country down except for essential services. Ban all domestic travel both air and land. Do it for four weeks at a minimum. Pay everyone with a net worth less than X or an annual income less than X enough to survive on and guarantee those payments for the next three months. The market will decide which companies survive and which don’t - capitalism at work for you. If it is done now you might, just might get the short term pain option. Wait another week and the only thing left is long term pain.

I find it fascinating that almost every other country represented on this board seems to realize this is the way it is. The US is not an exception. It will, unfortunately soon have the honour of “winning” the race for the most cases per capita. That is not a win I would wish on anyone.

ETA: I realize many in the US do not want to put the economy before lives and totally get that a shut down is necessary. Damn this is all so awful and frustrating.
Don't worry, the Australian Government is fcuking this up nearly as royally thanks to our Trump-wannabe Scummo.

Scummo's performance at the press conference last was comically bad. Basically, "It's essential, unless it's not. Then it's essentially not essential." Also apparently we can still go clothes shopping, and get our hair done, but only for 30 minutes, but no nail shops, and no food courts, but shopping centres can stay open, and still no school closure.

They reckon half the problem in Australia isn't young people being arrogant about going out, it's about people being bloody confused as hell as to what we're supposed to be doing, because the messaging from the government has been clear as mud. No-one apparently has the balls to come right out and say "STAY. HOME. DO NOT GO OUT. AT ALL."
 

Japanfan

Well-Known Member
Messages
22,708
There are some people who are describing the current state of affairs as dystopian. Whatever we call it, there are going to be a variety of perceptions, emotions, and lived experiences:
I would not describe the current state of affairs as dystopian. At least, not yet. And, at least not in my part of the world.

But it depends on how you define the world: According to Dictionary.com: "a society characterized by human misery, as squalor, oppression, disease, and overcrowding."

Well, we have got the disease part of it going on, but let's just hope that the spread can be slowed down, and that a vaccine is soon on the way.

And if one agrees with that definition, many parts of the world can be described as dystopian. :(
 

Louis

Well-Known Member
Messages
13,784
Did you miss the part where the government is paying people who make/have net worth under a certain amount? That is the key. Don’t give money to businesses, just keep their employees whole while thing are shut down.
What government is paying people their full salaries to keep employees "whole?"

The big problem is that full shut-down creates a blockade in the last mile of the value chain. This blockade then poisons the rest of the chain. If airlines can't fly; if retail stores can't open; etc.; etc., then we're left with a high-cost back office supporting a shut-down front office. Companies can only absorb those "full costs with no revenue" situations for a short time without drastic actions, which will have unprecedented domino effects when the shut-down is nationwide and now global and across sectors. This is why we're seeing airlines laying off 90% of workers. Retail will soon follow. Your product manager, marketing person, IT person, HR person, Finance person, etc. is useless if you can't sell product. We've never been in a situation before where most of the world is shut down. Normally, you can redirect your "back office" somewhere - now, there's nowhere to turn to.

A lot of the smug "I can work from home" people will soon discover that their colleagues' inability to work from home means that their own work from home is useless. They'll be crying over their pink slip at home in four weeks, maybe fewer. People who wouldn't have qualified for or needed stimulus will then need stimulus, and the whole vicious cycle continues.

This is a win/win with the strong companies surviving and thriving and the poorly managed companies going under. Like I said, capitalism at work.
This is a lose/lose for workers, with strong companies shedding 10-50% of their workers and poorly managed ones shedding 90-100%. Since the government has caused this shut down, IMO it's the government's problem to fix it. This is a different situation than the financial crisis that preceded the great recession, or other "normal" recessions.

With entire sectors at risk, the choices are really bail out, nationalize, or allow monopolies. Pick your poison.
 

Susan1

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,124
The last report I heard from someone who had symptoms was that the doctor told her she could not get a test unless her symptoms were bad enough for her to be hospitalized. They did rule out other possible diagnoses.
Here in Dayton, you have to have a doctor's o.k. to be tested. At the drive-up site, they test you for flu and all kinds of other things. If you have the flu or other things, you don't get tested for the "big one". If you don't, you go to another tent for that test which takes 5-7 days to come back. They did say days ago that they wouldn't test at the hospital unless you were sick enough to keep. Things change hourly, so I don't know.
 

Buzz

Well-Known Member
Messages
33,084
I am surprised that Prince Charles is positive but his wife is negative.
 

Lanie

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,207
He spent time with Prince Albert of Monaco - I wonder if that is where they both got it. Hope he gets well soon. I like him a lot.
 

Frau Muller

Everything is beautiful at the ballet!
Messages
11,796
Prince Charles tested positive for the ******! Just heard this on tv...catching up.
 

Susan1

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,124
When I went to get milk and wipes yesterday, I pulled my Kroger card out by the corner and handed it to the cashier and she grabbed the catty corner and swiped it and handed it back and I grabbed my same corner and put it back.

But I am still aggravated that you can't clean the cart handles because there are no wipes. They have had wipes at the entrance to the store for years before this. And hand sanitizer at the registers (but not the self-check-outs). I should know. I can't tell you how many times my purse strap got stuck on one and I knocked it over. The next time I have to go to the store, I will take one of my wipes. There are only 30 in the canister, and I used three yesterday. It's just me, so I don't have to go around cleaning everything all the time, just when I bring something in, or after the plumber was here. How long do they go before drying out - in the canister, like the ones under the sink did?
 
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Lorac

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,996
Prince Charles has tested positive.

Prince Charles tests positive

He last saw the Queen on 12th March. Charles and Camilla - who tested negative - have now self isolated in Balmoral. I so hope the Queen doesn't get it as that would really have a terrible impact on the morale of the country.
 

marbri

Hey, Kool-Aid!
Messages
13,030
Don't worry, the Australian Government is fcuking this up nearly as royally thanks to our Trump-wannabe Scummo.

Scummo's performance at the press conference last was comically bad. Basically, "It's essential, unless it's not. Then it's essentially not essential." Also apparently we can still go clothes shopping, and get our hair done, but only for 30 minutes, but no nail shops, and no food courts, but shopping centres can stay open, and still no school closure.

They reckon half the problem in Australia isn't young people being arrogant about going out, it's about people being bloody confused as hell as to what we're supposed to be doing, because the messaging from the government has been clear as mud. No-one apparently has the balls to come right out and say "STAY. HOME. DO NOT GO OUT. AT ALL."
My sister lives in Australia and she is so frustrated with the government. Her complaints echo yours that they are very unclear with mixed messages. Having family in three different countries (and friends in others) it really is key that the public has good leadership and that seems to be lacking in the US and Australia at the moment.
 

marbri

Hey, Kool-Aid!
Messages
13,030
I am surprised that Prince Charles is positive but his wife is negative.
From what I heard from our daily briefing here is the test most are using (nasal swab test) only shows if the virus is present at that moment in that area of your body. Not if you had it and recovered or if you will get it. If you had the virus and were asymptomatic the swab test will not show that, you would have to draw blood and test for antibodies which I don't think many are doing at all at this stage.

disclaimer: I am not an expert in any of this just repeating what I heard/understood at the daily briefing.
 

Jenny

From the Bloc
Messages
21,035
The doctor in this clip is very clear, the US is at the BEGINNING of its fight against this virus. If this was an enemy attacking the US with the chance of killing millions, the government would have no problem mobilizing. Well this virus could kill millions. The time to mobilize is now.

It is an enemy attacking the US with the chance of killing millions. It's name is Donald J. Trump.
 

antmanb

Well-Known Member
Messages
9,687
Prince Charles of Wales tests positive for BB
Meanwhile essential NHS staff still aren't able to get tested because of shortages.

Honestly Prince Charles is doing nothing for society at this time whereas vital NHS workers are and need to be tested. Maybe if the celebrities and aristocracy stopped getting tested before NHS staff that would be a useful thing they could do.
 

BlueRidge

AYS's snark-sponge
Messages
55,670
Here's what an ethicist says about the framing of the issue as either economy or health:

It is possibly the dumbest debate we’re having,” said Jha, who has written articles for the Atlantic proposing some solutions. “People are being incredibly simplistic and are not thinking through this beyond the next two weeks. The number of people who have emailed me and said, have you thought about the economic effects? You know, it turns out, I’ve thought about that!”
Actually I think an economist would say that also, given that you need healthy people and a functioning medical system to have a healthy economy and you need a healthy economy to have healthy people and a functioning medical system. But dealing with nuance and sorting through details and making choices while facing uncertainty is just so boring...

Should older Americans die to save the economy? Ethicists call it a false choice. (Washington Post)
 

attyfan

Well-Known Member
Messages
8,501
IIRC, after WWII, there were large chunks of Europe and Japan that had been heavily bombed .... and the economies of those countries managed to recover. Why should the economic damage to the US if an extended lockdown is needed be more final than the bombings? Admittedly, recovery would take longer after a lockdown (unless some other country gives us a Marshall Plan), but it would not be impossible.
 

rfisher

Let the skating begin
Messages
61,905
If the BB problem isn't contained, the medical system will be totally overwhelmed. We're seeing what has happened in Italy and Spain. The US is the new epicenter and our healthcare system flat out cannot withstand millions of sick patients at the same time. As long as the problem is allowed to spread unchecked, well, I think everybody knows what will happen. The cost to the world/country will equal or surpass any issues with the stock market. It's not an either/or situation. Development of an effective vaccine, pharmacology or stopping the spread are the options. Two of those simply take time. We have to do the third in order to achieve the first two.

Thankfully, most state governors and large city mayors get this since people in the federal government don't give a rat's ass as long as they aren't sick and their portfolio doesn't lose money. Or their casinos and hotels open up. Remember that at election time.
 

BlueRidge

AYS's snark-sponge
Messages
55,670
IIRC, after WWII, there were large chunks of Europe and Japan that had been heavily bombed .... and the economies of those countries managed to recover. Why should the economic damage to the US if an extended lockdown is needed be more final than the bombings? Admittedly, recovery would take longer after a lockdown (unless some other country gives us a Marshall Plan), but it would not be impossible.
And we won't have the devastated infrastructure that countries had after WWII so we should be in less need of something like the Marshall Plan.
 

BlueRidge

AYS's snark-sponge
Messages
55,670
Thankfully, most state governors and large city mayors get this since people in the federal government don't give a rat's ass as long as they aren't sick and their portfolio doesn't lose money. Or their casinos and hotels open up. Remember that at election time.
Can we say "people in the White House" rather than the federal government? (Washingtonian speaking...) :saint:

I was glad to see Texas Governor Abbott speak out in favor of shutting down. No idea what his relationship with the TX Lt Governor who wants to die for his grandchildren is.
 

Ka3sha

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,398
Some news from Russia:
In a major effort to curb the spread of BB in Russia, Vladimir Putin has canceled the next workweek nationwide, suspending work for all non-essential laborers from March 28 to April 5. The president also indefinitely postponed a nationwide plebiscite on constitutional amendments that was previously scheduled for April 22.

In his nationwide address on March 25, Putin also outlined a series of federal measures to sustain Russia's economy and social safety net, announcing debt protections for persons diagnosed with BB and tax and bankruptcy protections for small- and medium-sized businesses.
Direct link is broken, so here’s the link to the website
 

Cachoo

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,326
HERO:
  • She was a social worker and there only five test kits at her work site. She declined to use one so that others might be able to be tested. Remember that.
In New Orleans: She died in her home waiting for test results. She worked in a clinic w/HIV patients. She was healthy and 39 years old. Her name was Natasha Ott. I suspect there are so many Natasha Otts worldwide.
 
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mag

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,864
I do wish a reporter would ask the Texas Lt Governor if he willing to die for his grandchildren, would he be willing to do something less drastic like help move Texas to more sustainable energy so his grandchildren will be able to survive in 50 years?
 
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