News & Experiences continued

Susan1

Well-Known Member
Messages
10,179
A big :revenge: to Clark county people in charge. They "dodged a bullet" by not turning Purple. And are NOW giving out masks. First of all, the bullet would have been made of cotton. What, when they went from Yellow to Orange, we won't worry till we turn Red? Red, well, we won't do anything till we turn Purple. Do they wait until their house is robbed to start locking the doors? Don't wear a seatbelt till your friend is killed in a car accident? Man. A clip from DeWine's press conference has been on CNN every half hour.
 

rfisher

Let the skating begin
Messages
67,866
And yet people's responses to all of these things are the Trump lines of "November 4th the cases will drop rapidly. Only 6% or the deaths attributed to C-19 are really C-19. The other 94% are fake" etc. When asked about rising numbers in Europe and can the world really be part of the hoax- several responses were they think those numbers are fake.
People go to great lengths to deny inconvenient truths.
 

antmanb

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,073
I don’t think this government is fit for office at this point. More leaks to the press that a “national lockdown” is about to be implemented in England...except for essential shops and educational setting - schools colleges and universities will remain open :rolleyes:

All of the evidence shows that this is mostly spreading in educational settings. A lockdown and leaving schools etc open is a fcuking waste of time. If we need to control this then lockdown, don’t do a half arsed thing that won’t work. I can’t see people going along with this like the first time around.
 

clairecloutier

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,907
So two days after our city gov’t asks people to stop having social gatherings in their homes and wear masks inside when visitors come in the house .... a mom I know posts pictures on Facebook of her daughter’s indoor birthday party with several friends and no one wearing masks. sigh.

I can totally anticipate all the excuses. Well, it was already planned when I got the announcement ... I didn’t want to disappoint her ... The kids have already had so many disappointments this year ... there haven’t been any cases among our circle ... etc, etc.
 

Louis

Private citizen
Messages
16,036
Ugggggggh, RIP to UK pubs, restaurants, and small businesses.

Announcing a month-long lockdown effective on Thursday, on a Saturday night and Halloween no less, seems like an idiotic move. I'm sure people are going to go out and party like it's the end of the world before being locked up again. I imagine every hair salon is going to be double and triple booked between now and Wednesday as well.

Meanwhile, suicides are up 70% already. The furlough scheme ends today. People are increasing desperate. Ridiculous U-turn from this incompetent government.

Unfortunately, I'm trapped here until 29 November.
 

Susan1

Well-Known Member
Messages
10,179
So two days after our city gov’t asks people to stop having social gatherings in their homes and wear masks inside when visitors come in the house .... a mom I know posts pictures on Facebook of her daughter’s indoor birthday party with several friends and no one wearing masks. sigh.

I can totally anticipate all the excuses. Well, it was already planned when I got the announcement ... I didn’t want to disappoint her ... The kids have already had so many disappointments this year ... there haven’t been any cases among our circle ... etc, etc.
They could have made it about 50% safer if they were wearing masks. Kids don't have as much trouble with that as adults. They have to wear them all day at school.

They have a big Halloween thing at the convention center. On the noon news, they said they had 5,000 kids last year. This year, it will be a drive-thru. The masked and gloved person can look at the costumes in the car as they hand over the bag of candy. They are really nice, big bags, pre-packed. He said they spent $15K on a variety of candy. I guess they will save on the indoor decorations. Disposable masks are also included in the bags.
 

Lorac

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,362
Waiting on BoJo to confirm what all the media are reporting but this circuit breaker should have been done at the start of October - maybe 2 weeks prior to half term and then including next week as well. But no our government went by the totally ineffectual hybrid local restrictions which in a country of the UK landmass and 62+ million population was never going to work. And many people are convinced the schools and universities are the main culprits for the peak we have had - and that makes sense to me. Unfortunately I have already seem many small independent massage schools and adult education teachers claiming they are classed as the same as schools and universities so can stay open. Sorry massage schools need to shut as doing hands on practical's are just defeating the point of a lockdown and social distancing.

So are we shutting the borders? No so people coming in and travelling willy nilly!!
 

FGRSK8

Toad whisperer.....
Messages
20,037
Ugggggggh, RIP to UK pubs, restaurants, and small businesses.

Announcing a month-long lockdown effective on Thursday, on a Saturday night and Halloween no less, seems like an idiotic move. I'm sure people are going to go out and party like it's the end of the world before being locked up again. I imagine every hair salon is going to be double and triple booked between now and Wednesday as well.

Meanwhile, suicides are up 70% already. The furlough scheme ends today. People are increasing desperate. Ridiculous U-turn from this incompetent government.

Unfortunately, I'm trapped here until 29 November.
Louis, this thing is totally out of control. Your country is not the only one that has hit new daily case highs. I counted over 40 across Europe, Russia, the Middle East, South America and the Untited states. All with different governments, different ideas, and different strategies. The result is still the same, the thing is out of control.

I don’t think any official will admit it but I think they realize that the crud will run the table through the population. I think what they are trying to do is stretch out the time it will affect the population so as to try not to overwhelm the health care system. So it comes down to the realization that X number of people will catch this, we might be better off if we stretch the time out as long as possible.
 

canbelto

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,635
So I just looked at worldometer and it looks like Russia is also in its second wave which is deadlier than the first. Their deaths are climbing rapidly.

Italy and Iran (two of the first hard-hit areas) are also in the midst of a deadly second wave.

This is awful.
 

antmanb

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,073
BBC news right now - the unions for primary schools and the university union have both said they should lockdown schools and move all university teaching to online only.

Maybe if this shambles of a government doesn’t do the right thing the unions might make the decision without him.
 

Lorac

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,362
BBC news right now - the unions for primary schools and the university union have both said they should lockdown schools and move all university teaching to online only.

Maybe if this shambles of a government doesn’t do the right thing the unions might make the decision without him.

Many university courses are already online - the universities just wanted the students to get there and pay their fees for the course and accommodation. I feel sorry for the students but this is unprecedented.
 

tony

Well-Known Member
Messages
10,086
I don't think lockdowns are really as effective as many people are trying to push. During our first 'stay home' instance in America, I know tons of people who were carrying on with their lives as if nothing happened. Maybe not in the very beginning, but you better believe they got bored quickly. The numbers may have dropped, but they didn't go away. While I do agree that a lockdown can slow the influx of patients in hospitals, it's just going to keep repeating as soon as countries decide to 'loosen' restrictions.

These repeated shiftings of what needs to be done are just leaving more and more people either out of work completely or not making consistent enough money to survive on their current bills, rents, mortgages, and whatever else. Many other countries have been fortunate enough to receive a higher stimulus or payment than the US, but the money here is the least of worries for one side that completely shut down talks and another side who won't budge at all on the number.

Nothing any government does is going to solve this. Sure, the numbers will go down again in places where they are calling for lockdowns. Then restrictions will be eased and once again people will take it from 0 to 100 just to restart the same cycle.

The closest possibility we had was to literally shut it ALL down in March (aside from absolute essentials), give people groceries totaling x amount of dollars for those 2 weeks, and an insane amount of money (think like $10k) that in the end probably would have been less than the amount of CARES Act and stimulus and weekly unemployment money has now totaled, and tell them they have to sit on their asses at home-- period. But that was never going to happen because 'freedoms' and all, at least in the US.
 

antmanb

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,073
Many university courses are already online - the universities just wanted the students to get there and pay their fees for the course and accommodation. I feel sorry for the students but this is unprecedented.
First years were all online but second and third year students were continuing face to face, no masks no actual attempt to control it and now the government are acting like this is some great surprise :rolleyes:
 

once_upon

Vaccinated
Messages
19,162
@Tony Wheeler do you think it was a age/class thing too?

Obviously front line workers/essential workers, didn't have a choice to stay home.

Then I began to hear rumblings on who was considered an essential worker including at least one person here. Something along the lines of my relative in working fast food considered essential, but teachers stay home?.

The perception that C-19 is only fatal to elderly or at risk people and manipulation of the data of deaths related to C-19 are reasons I hear for disregarding social distancing.

Young adults in my kids age group, 30's and 40's, seem to be divided on how serious they take a shutdown in general the things that affect their desire to shut down are along political lines, level of education, knowing a family member or friend who has at risks health issues and of course ability to work from home.

I see more over 50 adults more willing to follow guidelines - but the same thing like essential worker, level of education, ability to earn in a SAH situation,vet. but politics play a huge influence in this age group. As well as what is considered essential services like hair (I havent had a hair cut or color since March13th. Im sure it looks like it.

I'm not sure a change in political party in power will be able to implement the most basic of things and have compliance. And I'm not sure another attempt at a shut down will be followed.
 

clairecloutier

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,907
People arguing against more quarantines/lockdowns really need to read this or similar articles:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...tals-nurses-staff-bridge-care-gap/6081153002/

This surge may get out of control fast, and our supply of healthcare workers and supplies is limited. The goal needs to be containment and limiting the damage.

It's sad that we're in this place again, but we are.
 

Jenny

From the Bloc
Messages
21,469
Among my family and friends, nearly all have worked continuously throughout this. Some who would usually go to an office or other facility are working from home, but others are not, and they're not healthcare workers or other frontline service people either.
 

tony

Well-Known Member
Messages
10,086
@Tony Wheeler do you think it was a age/class thing too?

Obviously front line workers/essential workers, didn't have a choice to stay home.

Then I began to hear rumblings on who was considered an essential worker including at least one person here. Something along the lines of my relative in working fast food considered essential, but teachers stay home?.

The perception that C-19 is only fatal to elderly or at risk people and manipulation of the data of deaths related to C-19 are reasons I hear for disregarding social distancing.

Young adults in my kids age group, 30's and 40's, seem to be divided on how serious they take a shutdown in general the things that affect their desire to shut down are along political lines, level of education, knowing a family member or friend who has at risks health issues and of course ability to work from home.

I see more over 50 adults more willing to follow guidelines - but the same thing like essential worker, level of education, ability to earn in a SAH situation,vet. but politics play a huge influence in this age group. As well as what is considered essential services like hair (I havent had a hair cut or color since March13th. Im sure it looks like it.

I'm not sure a change in political party in power will be able to implement the most basic of things and have compliance. And I'm not sure another attempt at a shut down will be followed.
I think it's a combination of many different things-- I know what is happening in Miami and many parts of big-city Florida isn't what is happening in many other areas of the US. But I do think that for the.. let's say 18-39 age demographic, far and away the attitudes have shifted somewhere along the way about all of this. First it was typically liberals who were telling everyone to do the right thing, at least out in the open. But if I'm using my area and the cities I do know well enough as examples, it doesn't matter what the party representation is now: the younger groups were getting bored and at some point they gave up trying to do the 'right' thing for everyone else. I don't think the education level of my age group has much of a huge correlation to the behaviors being exhibited, but again I'm most familiar with big cities.

I also mentioned that I personally believe a huge shift in opinion came when the extra money stopped coming in for those who weren't able or didn't want to go back to their jobs. Once that extra money was gone, the attitude seemed to very quickly become 'well everything has to reopen!' I also tried to open a discussions about this on Facebook and I was greeted with answers about people simply becoming bored and/or their mental health was suffering. When I asked how it was any different than MAGA who was screaming to open in the first weeks of all of this, there was always some talking around the answer.

I also know this will make plenty of people here :shuffle: but I know many, many people who voted for Biden but absolutely cannot stand the thought of him shutting everything down again and think it's the worst thing to do. Again- that could be because of the lack of money coming in and no clear answer on if there will be more or when.

People arguing against more quarantines/lockdowns really need to read this or similar articles:


This surge may get out of control fast, and our supply of healthcare workers and supplies is limited. The goal needs to be containment and limiting the damage.

It's sad that we're in this place again, but we are.
I decided to get back into school and fly through courses to try to get to working in the field, so I'm trying quickly. But the case I'm arguing is that if you shut things down for a month (or whatever the time may be) and then go with this same pattern of easing restrictions only to see an immediate spike in numbers (but not do anything about it until it's way over the top), then what good was that month? It slowed down hospitals for that month, yes, but things will get right back to where they were in a cycle until there is a vaccine and it will put them under that same amount of pressure and overcapacity once again.
Among my family and friends, nearly all have worked continuously throughout this. Some who would usually go to an office or other facility are working from home, but others are not, and they're not healthcare workers or other frontline service people either.
And you are fortunate to have a circle of friends and family who have had the ability to do so. Many people working in many different careers have been either out of work or gone back to work in restricted conditions that make them little to no money to offset the cost of their living. I know FSU skews towards many people who were sharing that they were donating stimulus money and/or set financially, but it's not the case for so many people. Even tech start-ups and smaller office jobs are getting hit- not just tourism/restaurants/bars or that nature. Anything in the arts right now is basically DOA, too.
 

flyingsit

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,877
If things don’t change soon it’s going to get really scary in the hospitals. Back in March/April healthcare workers from other states and regions went to NY to assist, but with facilities in many states nearing capacity, that won’t be a possibility.
 

Louis

Private citizen
Messages
16,036
But the case I'm arguing is that if you shut things down for a month (or whatever the time may be) and then go with this same pattern of easing restrictions only to see an immediate spike in numbers (but not do anything about it until it's way over the top), then what good was that month? It slowed down hospitals for that month, yes, but things will get right back to where they were in a cycle until there is a vaccine and it will put them under that same amount of pressure and overcapacity once again.

Yes, WHAT IS THE LONG-TERM PLAN? The first lockdown failed. So let's try a second one. :rolleyes: This is the definition of insanity. What are the clear and comprehensive plans / things we will do differently to have a better outcome this time? Why are we following this failed path, v. the path of many of Asian countries, which have a handle on this and DID IT WITHOUT LOCKDOWN? Great Britain is a fcuking island. We should be able to beat this.

Yep the fcuking moron is closing everything except schools, colleges and unis :rolleyes: and in four weeks time when infections are still rampant because the biggest breeding grounds for this crud are still open and going strong what then??

Exactly. And why are schools, colleges, and universities somehow less risky than "non-essential" shops with capacity limits + masks + distancing? If anything, it's the opposite. What magical bubble is also protecting construction and manufacturing? And why can the Premier League still play?

These random restrictions, and deciding whose lives matter and whose lives don't, are fcuking infuriating. I'm done with Johnson and anyone else who votes for this - VOTE THEM ALL OUT. Time for a no-confidence vote.
 

Dobre

Well-Known Member
Messages
10,997
And, if SCOTUS repeals the ACA hundreds of thousands of patients who were covered by extended Medicaid in our region will have no insurance coverage. The hospitals cannot absorb the cost to write off millions of dollars of unreimbursed expense. Moreover, if the pre-existing condition mandate is lost, they can't get coverage.
And has anyone thought about the number of people who may feel forced to shelter in place without insurance?

Of course not because they think the poor have no choice other than to go out there and risk their lives for food on the table, regardless of whether people have health insurance.

But it is not only people on Medicaid who use the ACA. Many freelance professionals in my lines of work use it to make running their own businesses and/or freelance work feasible. (It lowers our premiums rather than eliminating them, but it would easily cost me $500 a month to pay for my current plan at an undiscounted rate). We used cheaper health insurance plans before, but those have been eliminated because the plans were ultimately capped. (Something that one would probably hit with a bad case of *********). Even if I were to find a new job in my previous profession right away (ha!) & switch over to full-time work with benefits, insurance typically does not kick in for a month; and that job is high-risk.

I don't know how politicians can even be thinking about setting off the nightmare of mucking with the health care industry right now.

I don't think lockdowns are really as effective as many people are trying to push.
Cases went down 75% in one of my local counties this summer due to closing swimming pools, restaurants & bars to indoor eating, and limiting church gatherings (I can't remember if the cap was 25 or 50 people). Even afterward, cases continued to go down & ultimately fell into single digits before surging again essentially this week. Schools, of course, were closed in the summer.

Not only did cases plummet in the county with the Stay-at-Home order mid-summer, but cases ultimately dropped in the neighboring county as well. (Just as cases rose in the neighboring county due to the surge from the county in worse trouble).

A full lockdown was not necessary for this huge turnaround. Retail remained open. Construction remained open. State parks remained open. Neighboring counties remained open, though it is important to note that neighboring counties have very few businesses that provide entertainment as they are all more rural.

Even though the county had not been tracing spread to pools, restaurants, bars, or churches, restrictions on those exact things made the difference. Untraceable community spread was clearly happening via those locations.

This is why I do not find it convincing when people claim that spread is not happening in schools.

(The county that was sent back to Stay at Home here midsummer has a large high-poverty & Hispanic community. Many of these people continued to go to work--though some food plants had been compelled to close temporarily due to massive spread. However, even with low-income workers going to work & with no way of really controlling family gatherings, closing these other aspects of society helped sever the threads that were allowing the disease to spread without check & get into those plants & a multitude of other community businesses).
 
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Jenny

From the Bloc
Messages
21,469
And you are fortunate to have a circle of friends and family who have had the ability to do so. Many people working in many different careers have been either out of work or gone back to work in restricted conditions that make them little to no money to offset the cost of their living. I know FSU skews towards many people who were sharing that they were donating stimulus money and/or set financially, but it's not the case for so many people. Even tech start-ups and smaller office jobs are getting hit- not just tourism/restaurants/bars or that nature. Anything in the arts right now is basically DOA, too.
Oh I know. I know many 20somethings as well - coworkers, relatives, children of friends. The ones who had jobs feel very lucky to still have them. But several are students who just graduated and now have no idea how they are going to find a job, let alone build a career in the field they studied. Another had just been laid off in January, and is now back living with her parents. Another had relocated just a few months before this started, hadn't yet found steady work, and is now living off the kindness of relatives.

I really feel for them all, and it doesn't surprise me at all when I see the Instagram stories of camping trips and private parties because I imagine they are going nuts with no money, no prospects, little in person social interaction, and finding themselves living off their parents at a time when they thought they'd be out there living an independent life to the fullest. Several have also done a ton of travelling (the backpacking/hostel kind), and the thought that they won't be able to do that again for the foreseeable future is also hard.

I was mostly responding to the idea of "essential" workers in that statement. I've said from the beginning that even when/if we have a vaccine, and a new president for that matter, the effects of 2020 will be felt for a long, long time.
 

flyingsit

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,877
Simple suggestion. People are free to decline to follow their local health department orders, but if they contract C0VID they have forfeited their right to medical treatment. And if contact tracing shows they spread it to others, they are responsible for any medical costs not covered by that person’s insurance.

Make your choice but take responsibility for your actions.
 

antmanb

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,073
Exactly. And why are schools, colleges, and universities somehow less risky than "non-essential" shops with capacity limits + masks + distancing? If anything, it's the opposite. What magical bubble is also protecting construction and manufacturing? And why can the Premier League still play?
Yes exactly - the premier league can continue, and strictly come fcuking dancing is allowed to “create” bubbles that lowly humans aren’t allowed to do of their on volition??

Mr Antmanb has said fcuk this he’s black market barbering for this lockdown. His shop has had zero cases he’s in full PPE and his clients are all wearing masks. Government aren’t proposing to financially support the lockdown so why do entertainment and football get a pass??
 

antmanb

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,073
Oh and contact tracing :rofl: perhaps if the tories forced their cronies to give back the £12bn they received for failing to produce the track and trace app they could actually properly fund this lockdown?
 

Jenny

From the Bloc
Messages
21,469
I think another issue right now is that so much of the population has survived this - never had it, don't know anyone close who had it, or at least no one who died of it. So naturally, it's hard to accept that they have to go back to a more restricted life or that the dangers are as big as they are being told.
 

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