News & Experiences continued

once_upon

New condo owner
Messages
13,392
The problem with the thinking of the president and all who think opening the country soon, there is no disposable income for consumerism to jump start the economy.

There has not been disposable income for months before this crisis. The store front shops are not necessarily failing because of Amazon. That may be part of it, but it's also that disposable income doesn't exist.
 

Lorac

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,996
Honestly the UK lockdown is just one big joke to some and the government aren't exactly making it easy to enforce as they don't seem to know what they are doing. Probably doesn't help we are having nice weather so many are just out and about and mingling as if there was nothing whatsoever going on. The 'exercise once a day' is impossible to police and many are running together and doing boot camps in the parks. Many parks had shut down because too many people were gathering there after the past weekend but then Boris said last night that people could go out of their home to exercise and specified parks - so most re-opened and as I say people are just congregating again. And the amount of shops and chains that have decided they are 'essential' is just hilarious. Sports Direct - a sporting goods company -originally decided they were essential as people needed to buy things to exercise with - they soon changed their tune after the media and public mocked them and agreed to shut their stores - but it appears they are now rising prices unethically. Then we have Dobbies - a huge Garden Centre chain with over 60 centres over the UK - which 'after careful consideration' - have decided they are an essential store as they sell fancy smanshy cakes and breads for obscene amounts of money, some sell small quantities of eggs and milk - though not all and they apparently sell hardware - i.e. fancy door knockers!!! So they have stayed open to help feed the nation - but they also sell much more that is 100% un essential - and that probably accounts for 90% of their stores contents. So staff are forced to go in and deal with members of the general public who may or may not be asymptomatic. And most other Garden Centres have closed as per government guidelines. And too many other companies have decided their staff need to come in so they end up travelling on crowded trains sometimes with barely 2 inches between them - let alone 2m!!!

Come on Boris - if you are serious about this lockdown to help slow the virus down you need to be more brutal in the lockdown itself. We need to hunker on down for a good 6 weeks - with only those needed to keep the country running - not the economy growing - going to work.

Sorry for the rant but I despair of the behaviour of both members of the public and companies who put profit before people!!!
 

Dave of the North

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,212
I'm not from NB, so might have misheard the news: Didn't he back down on the closures before this became a crisis?

Edit: I agree with your broader point about it being harder to campaign against incumbent governments. I just hope that all governments can work together constructively for the sake of everyone's health.
Yes, he did back down quickly. Said there would be further study and consultation, which is not likely to happen for a while.
 

sk8pics

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,574

FGRSK8

Toad whisperer.....
Messages
19,126
Here is a disturbing thought.

What is happening in NYC with the exploding numbers of infected May be a precursor of a real nightmare if this virus gets into a city like Rio de Janeiro or Mumbai, India.

This would be just god awful.:(:(:(:(:(
 

Louis

Well-Known Member
Messages
13,784
as usual, the people on the frontlines of decision making are of course not trying an all or nothing strategy but so often people are unable to see anything else or evaluate it in any other way.

[....]

This isn't an academic case study though some people seem to approach it that way in their views of it.
It's also not an academic decision to decide when and how many workers to lay off, permanently or otherwise, and how soon; what % salary cuts to recommend; how much can you use "forced holiday" to try to buy yourself time; how many projects you need to cancel; and even how much capital your company has to survive.

Those decisions are being made right now among a different group of people on the frontlines, and I'm seeing that group of people err on the scarily high side: worse than the financial crisis and 9/11. Official statistics on early unemployment claims seem to be surpassing even the most dire estimates.
 

Dave of the North

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,212
Unfortunately, a rise in the number of deaths in Italy today after two consecutive days in which the daily number of deaths had fallen. Very disappointing. I really hoped they had turned the corner, with some light finally at the end of the tunnel. However, the fight goes on.
I think deaths are a trailing (lagging?) indicator. Looking at the numbers of newly diagnosed cases: from 4821 to 3957 to 3780 to 3612 in the last 4 days may be more a hopeful indicator.
 

Gris

Well-Known Member
Messages
354
So I'm going to be stuck in the UK illegally - my Tier 4 student visa will expire at the end of March and my flight back to China on the 27th was cancelled by Emirates yesterday
An update - according to the government statement today it looks like I can have my visa extended to the end of May. So hopefully no more worries of being illegal :lol:
 

Garden Kitty

Tranquillo
Messages
28,224
Nice article about the Minnesota Vikings' player Kyle Rudolph donating 82,000 meals to people hit by BB and he mentions some of the charitable efforts made by other people associated with the team.


Growing up, I never had to worry about not having meals if we didn't have school, and that's not the case for a lot of kids around our community," Kyle told Vikings.com. "There's a lot of families who are going without meals because mom and/or dad aren't able to work right now … so we wanted to do something here for the families in our community that we know are being directly affected
 

overedge

G.O.A.T.
Messages
27,231
Ugh, I just heard a story about a local business that made me :mad:

This business makes really good ice cream, all in its own local factory. It also has an ice cream stand in a local park - the park, which is run by the city, has a playground and a beach. Last weekend (before the closures) people in the park were lining up at the stand to buy cones, and weren't doing social distancing even though there were spaces marked out on the path. Some of the employees went outside to ask people to stand further apart, which apparently they did as long as there was an employee telling them to. As soon as the employees went back in, people moved closer together.

Somehow this got onto social media, including pictures of the bunched-up lineup outside the stand. This blew up into (a) This company is deliberately threatening people's health by making them line up like this [even though the company was trying to keep the lineups spaced out] and (b) this company doesn't care about little children's health because OMG the kids in the playground could pick up the v*r*s from the swings and slides [even though the ice cream stand has nothing to do with the playground].

The owners of the business got so much online abuse, including threatening DMs and death threats on their company email, that they said fcuk it and closed the ice cream stand and the factory. They had a "closing out sale" at the factory to get rid of the stock they had on hand, and they're not going to reopen until the v*r*s restrictions are lifted. So now they and several dozen employees are out of work for who knows how long, because of a bunch of stupid online vigilantes :mad:
 
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Hedwig

WoolSilk Fanatic
Messages
18,215
I think deaths are a trailing (lagging?) indicator. Looking at the numbers of newly diagnosed cases: from 4821 to 3957 to 3780 to 3612 in the last 4 days may be more a hopeful indicator.
I dont trust the numbers of infected people. Hardly anyone gets tested. Even here in Germany where the nb of tests are supposed to be so very high, you have to fight tooth and nails to get tested

a friend of mine with absolute classic ********* symptoms and having been in contact with a possible transmitter and being extremely ill only got tested after her local doctor yelled at the test center for three days in a row because she works in a critical important company (huge organic mill) and then they let her be tested.
there are just too many people to test and not enough manpower
 

BaileyCatts

Well-Known Member
Messages
8,414
:shuffle: There are so many threads now I'm pretty sure I asked this and now can't find the right thread. So you get tested and you are positive .... what's the treatment? What's next for you?
 

skatingguy

Golden Team
Messages
6,942
:shuffle: There are so many threads now I'm pretty sure I asked this and now can't find the right thread. So you get tested and you are positive .... what's the treatment? What's next for you?
10 to 14 days in isolation until you test negative twice - assuming that the symptoms are mild. There are no treatments at this time, so it's like any other cold or flu - fluids, rest, and fever control measures.
 

MacMadame

My G.O.A.T is better than your G.O.A.T.
Staff member
Messages
32,230
I actually really hope you're right and I'm full of shit. Please convince me you are.
I hope you are too. Did you mean to say convince me I (Louis) am, btw? Because I doubt anyone is going to try to convince you that they are full of shit. :lol:

I think this situation is unprecedented so we have to think about it freshly and not with stock answers. And I think it is more like war than like the Great Depression. The economy was doing well before this happened (it may have been leaving people behind but it wasn't in the crapper either) and some businesses are doing gangbuster business now, better than before. They are even hiring. There are also companies in good enough shape that they are paying their employees even if they are shut down. Even our local sporting goods chain is doing this (about 10 stores) and retail tends to operate on slim profit margins so they must be doing okay.

So if the government can control the chaos and help out the people who got screwed, I think we'll be okay. But it will require government stimulus IMO. It won't happen by itself with no intervention.

It's also a short-term situation. Even worst-case scenario and we all have to stay on lockdown until there is a vaccine (which I don't think we will), it's still a year, not years and not indefinitely.

@snoopy talked about businesses making decisions with no end in sight. I think there is an end in sight because eventually we'll have both herd immunity and we'll have a vaccine. Most events are being postponed until the Fall. That says to me that most decision-makers feel like the worst will be over some time in the summer. Which is only a few months away.

The Spanish flu did not kill a quarter of the earth’s population. It infected a third of the world’s population with 50-100 million killed...no where near a quarter of the world’s population....
How many of the infected did it kill?

:shuffle: There are so many threads now I'm pretty sure I asked this and now can't find the right thread. So you get tested and you are positive .... what's the treatment? What's next for you?
It depends on how bad you have it. If mild, see below:

10 to 14 days in isolation until you test negative twice - assuming that the symptoms are mild. There are no treatments at this time, so it's like any other cold or flu - fluids, rest, and fever control measures.
If you can't breathe then you get admitted to the hospital (like my friend), you get treatments to help you breathe. I don't know exactly what she got but I saw a picture on FB and she had a lot of tubes and an Oxygen mask, but not a ventilator. I think she was just given medicine and breathing treatments like you get if you have asthma. And if you have a high fever, they'll do things to bring it down.

If you are very seriously ill and really can't breathe, you get put on a ventilator. That's the part that has everyone making decisions freaked out. They are expensive enough that hospitals just don't have an extra thousand laying around. So if there aren't enough...

Btw, I found a place to take my gloves and we gave them our last N95 mask from the wildfires too. (Kaiser in my town.)

Also, it looks like people are taking the SIP order more seriously now. Or maybe it's just because it's the weekday and most people are working and also it's raining so it's not nice out. 🤷‍♀️ But the grocery store was pretty empty just like on a normal weekday. The employees were pretty cheerful too. They were standing too close to me when I checked out (2 baggers and 1 cashier) and there were no paper towels or TP but otherwise my trip was uneventful.
 

mag

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,864
It's also not an academic decision to decide when and how many workers to lay off, permanently or otherwise, and how soon; what % salary cuts to recommend; how much can you use "forced holiday" to try to buy yourself time; how many projects you need to cancel; and even how much capital your company has to survive.

Those decisions are being made right now among a different group of people on the frontlines, and I'm seeing that group of people err on the scarily high side: worse than the financial crisis and 9/11. Official statistics on early unemployment claims seem to be surpassing even the most dire estimates.
First off, companies should be able to last more than a week. You realize that is how long it has been, right? One week. And it is not even a shut down (other than the states that have taken it into their own hands.) The number of times I have heard very privileged Republican politicians and pundits lecture the masses about all these people who are out to rip off the system and want welfare when they can work. They tell us about single mothers who just need to learn to manage their money better while making $12.00 and hour. Perhaps some of these companies need to learn to manage their money better? Maybe they should have put something away for a rainy day?

You also realize there is no choice to be made. This virus doesn’t care about your bank account or the stock market. You can short term pain or long term pain; those are the options.

Shut the country down except for essential services. Ban all domestic travel both air and land. Do it for four weeks at a minimum. Pay everyone with a net worth less than X or an annual income less than X enough to survive on and guarantee those payments for the next three months. The market will decide which companies survive and which don’t - capitalism at work for you. If it is done now you might, just might get the short term pain option. Wait another week and the only thing left is long term pain.

I find it fascinating that almost every other country represented on this board seems to realize this is the way it is. The US is not an exception. It will, unfortunately soon have the honour of “winning” the race for the most cases per capita. That is not a win I would wish on anyone.

ETA: I realize many in the US do not want to put the economy before lives and totally get that a shut down is necessary. Damn this is all so awful and frustrating.
 

overedge

G.O.A.T.
Messages
27,231
Companies should be able to last more than a week. You realize that is how long it has been, right? One week. And it is not even a shut down (other than the states that have taken it into their own hands.) The number of times I have heard very privileged Republican politicians and pundits lecture the masses about all these people who are out to rip off the system and want welfare when they can work. They tell us about single mothers who just need to learn to manage their money better while making $12.00 and hour. Perhaps some of these companies need to learn to manage their money better? Maybe they should have put something away for a rainy day?
A business model that relies on paying workers minimum wage and giving them few (if any) benefits is not a sustainable business model. The v*r*s shutdowns are just making that more obvious.
 

Dobre

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,700
The last report I heard from someone who had symptoms was that the doctor told her she could not get a test unless her symptoms were bad enough for her to be hospitalized. They did rule out other possible diagnoses.
 

MacMadame

My G.O.A.T is better than your G.O.A.T.
Staff member
Messages
32,230
I have to say, I had been thinking of moving to somewhere cheaper to make retirement easier. Now I am so glad I live in CA. Our governor is effective and willing to make hard decisions and so are our local leaders. And now, if you look at the data, it appears that the SF Bay area is already flattening the curve and CA is on course to do that as well.
A business model that relies on paying workers minimum wage and giving them few (if any) benefits is not a sustainable business model. The v*r*s shutdowns are just making that more obvious.
Companies like Target and Costco giving their employees raises (so they wouldn't all quit at once?) warms my heart a bit. They won't be able to take those raises back when this is all over.
 

Louis

Well-Known Member
Messages
13,784
First off, companies should be able to last more than a week.
Small businesses usually can't last more than a month, which some of the lockdowns are projected to be.

Large companies (generally) can't get rid of labor overnight, thanks to the Warn act (and other legislation that I support) in the US and similar legislation elsewhere. So add two months of paying people when you can't sell product, on top of what's estimated to be at least three weeks of paying people when you can't sell product, and you have at least a full quarter of fully loaded expenses with basically zero revenue. Add in consumer sentiment and a slow recovery, and the numbers get significantly worse. And that's the best case scenario for companies that rely on foot traffic or physical sales.

We don't know the worst case scenario because the lock-down is unpredictable. Rainy day funds will be gone, or will be at risk of being gone due to the unpredictability. Companies right now are doing exactly what you're suggesting. They are rebuilding or enhancing rainy day funds by doing the only thing they can do when they can't generate revenue: reducing expenses by sacking or furloughing any worker they can, cancelling projects (which causes other companies to sack or furlough workers), and otherwise not spending. If companies have no idea when the lock-down ends, we'll see slashing and burning of the payrolls that's far worse than it probably needs to be -- absent government incentives for keeping workers or government-backed debt (the dreaded corporate welfare). The threshold for adding people back to the payrolls will be much higher - CFOs will prioritize liquidity and working capital over anything else for the foreseeable future.

And we really don't know the long-term effects of what other countries are doing. Italy was in a precarious financial position before this virus and may well go bankrupt and bring down the entire Eurozone / EU with it. It doesn't help that the four hardest hit areas represent half of the GDP.
 

mag

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,864
This just came across my Facebook. I don’t know the poster but it is a interesting read.

 

mag

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,864
Small businesses usually can't last more than a month, which some of the lockdowns are projected to be.

Large companies (generally) can't get rid of labor overnight, thanks to the Warn act (and other legislation that I support) in the US and similar legislation elsewhere. So add two months of paying people when you can't sell product, on top of what's estimated to be at least three weeks of paying people when you can't sell product, and you have at least a full quarter of fully loaded expenses with basically zero revenue. Add in consumer sentiment and a slow recovery, and the numbers get significantly worse. And that's the best case scenario for companies that rely on foot traffic or physical sales.
Did you miss the part where the government is paying people who make/have net worth under a certain amount? That is the key. Don’t give money to businesses, just keep their employees whole while thing are shut down. Business owners and executives have enough to live on without government help. Then, keep the payments going for a minimum of three months, even if people are able to slowly go back to work. That will give Americans cash to spend which will then flow to the companies they decide to spend it with. It also gives Americans some choice when they return to the workforce. Companies who produce products and services people demand will need employees. Employees with a little extra disposable income will be able to hold out a bit for better pay and working conditions. This is a win/win with the strong companies surviving and thriving and the poorly managed companies going under. Like I said, capitalism at work.
 

mag

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,864
The doctor in this clip is very clear, the US is at the BEGINNING of its fight against this virus. If this was an enemy attacking the US with the chance of killing millions, the government would have no problem mobilizing. Well this virus could kill millions. The time to mobilize is now.

 

Maofan7

Member
Messages
19,566
The Spanish flu did not kill a quarter of the earth’s population. It infected a third of the world’s population with 50-100 million killed...no where near a quarter of the world’s population....
That was a typo caused by the autocorrect on my iPhone. Have corrected
 
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aftershocks

Well-Known Member
Messages
16,793
Below is an informative, educational video (animated) about what is known about what we are dealing with. :eek:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtN-goy9VOY


Also, I was listening to a medical specialist on a Ohio talk radio podcast (All Sides with Ann Fisher). He explained that the # 1 9 after the letters C O V I D simply means it is a c o r o n a v i r u s that appeared in 2019. He said it is also described as S A R S c o r o n a #2

The medical professional also said that one long term outcome of what has happened should be putting more resources, energy and development into medical research, medical technologies, medical emergency training and education, as well as ensuring a stockpile of emergency medical supplies is available to facilities across the country. The reality per this medical professional, is that there aren't enough supplies, resources, trained workers or facility space to handle the current crisis. Not to mention the need to catch up on gaining enough knowledge about the virus, its spread and its behavioral characteristics.

Honestly, it is all becoming a bit trying emotionally. There's a drugstore and a grocery within walking distance. Both are adjusting their hours, but they remain open as 'essential service provider businesses.'
 
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MacMadame

My G.O.A.T is better than your G.O.A.T.
Staff member
Messages
32,230
Here's some advice for people freaking out about getting the virus on how not to get it from someone with a compromised immune system:


There is nothing earth-shattering there but it's very thorough and doesn't have a lot of extra stuff that doesn't help or bad advice.
 
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