News & Experiences continued

canbelto

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,285
We also easily passed 8 million cases ...
REALLY depressing that NY which had managed to crush the curve over the summer is back up to over 1700 new cases a day. It's very depressing that NYC went to hell and back and seems headed back to the Hades ...

In other news, I've decided that at least once a week I have to dress up in work clothes so I can keep track of which clothes still fit me.
 

FGRSK8

Toad whisperer.....
Messages
19,471
We also easily passed 8 million cases ...
REALLY depressing that NY which had managed to crush the curve over the summer is back up to over 1700 new cases a day. It's very depressing that NYC went to hell and back and seems headed back to the Hades ...

In other news, I've decided that at least once a week I have to dress up in work clothes so I can keep track of which clothes still fit me.
We are at almost 8.3 million
? There's 39.1 million cases worldwide.

This is a one day total....40 million worldwide cases within 2 days
 

Parsley Sage

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,648
We also easily passed 8 million cases ...
REALLY depressing that NY which had managed to crush the curve over the summer is back up to over 1700 new cases a day. It's very depressing that NYC went to hell and back and seems headed back to the Hades ...

In other news, I've decided that at least once a week I have to dress up in work clothes so I can keep track of which clothes still fit me.
I go into the office twice a week. I've been making sure to wear my favourites on those days so I get some use out of them.
 

Dobre

Well-Known Member
Messages
8,120

University of Utah Hospital overcapacity as the ‘unsustainable’ ******** outbreak continues​

"Utah shattered its previous record for ******** hospitalizations Friday and one of the state’s largest hospitals said it was forced to set up extra beds because the intensive care unit was full.

University of Utah Hospital was bringing in doctors and nurses for overtime shifts Friday to staff new beds after its ICU reached 'more than 100% capacity,; said hospital spokeswoman Suzanne Winchester.

The hospital in March set up a regular unit to have the monitoring capability of an ICU, said Dr. Russell Vinik, chief medical operations officer.

But 'we don’t have staffing for that ICU,' he said. 'That is made by doctors, nurses, therapists working extra shifts and extra time.'”

Montana ********* cases threaten to overwhelm health care system​

-Things have gotten very bad very quickly in Montana. They still had case numbers below 100 in mid-September, and now multiple hospitals are full. The governor has asked for federal help with medical staffing. There has been no response.

Hawaii is open to tourists.🙏 Wishing the state the very best with their new testing program.

Idaho: As schools reopen, children’s ******** case numbers double in two months​

"Weeks into the new academic year, outbreaks have forced numerous schools to scale back face-to-face schedules, shifting to online instruction or a blend of virtual and classroom learning. Last week, the White House’s ******** task force said outbreaks in 10 Idaho counties could be tied to school reopenings, and the task force suggested shifting to online instruction.

North Dakota
had another new high. 877 cases today:yikes:.

Wisconsin also had another new high. 3,861.

Wyoming had a new high of 248.

Kansas City hospitals overwhelmed, some forced to turn away ambulances as *********-19 cases jump​


El Paso is a hotspot right now in Texas. The El Paso area has over 7,000 active cases and over 800 announced today.

After week of record high ********* numbers, top Oklahoma doctor says more aggressive measures are needed to save lives​


Arizona family lost eight family members and their business to *********-19​

Texas teen wins $25,000 for creating possible treatment for *********-19:)


 

moebius

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,738
I'm also tired of the concern trollers on social media who say they want to "open up a discussion" about whether c19 is "real." Inevitably the posts become flooded with people with "proof" it's a hoax. Like shut up with your "discussions" and wear a mask.
I have yet to find a published article proving that CV causes the illness using Koch postulate-the golden standard of science. Gee, I wonder why....Maybe they know the illness cannot be reproduced? So far everything is based on association. Does anybody remember Koch postulate from high school biology?
Koch's postulates, first stated by the great German bacteriologist Robert Koch in the late 1800s, can simply be stated as:
  • Purify the pathogen (e.g. *****) from many cases with a particular illness.
  • Inject the purified pathogen to a person who has not been exposed to the pathogen.
  • Verify that the same illness is produced.
  • If the illness is produced, purify the pathogen and inject into another person who has not been exposed to the pathogen
  • Verify that the same illness is produced.
 

mikey

...an acquired taste
Messages
4,860
Koch's postulates may have been relevant for studying bacterial infections, but they have been considered obsolete for over half a century because they are notoriously inaccurate for things like viral infections. Hell, the fact that HIV causes AIDS is not supported by Koch's postulates.
 

taz'smum

as @Jesche says - мама knows best
Messages
2,395
I find myself in a strange situation.

I had C19 for 2 weeks in September and presumably now have some antibodies.
Then yesterday I got a call from the French equivalent of a "Track and Trace" service saying that the student I taught for an hour on Monday has tested positive for C19.

They told me that I must self-isolate for 10 days and I must have a C19 test on Monday.
I explained that I had already had C19 in September and they said that that even if I have antibodies I still have to be retested as antibodies don't guarantee that I will not get a 2nd dose of C19.

Their bedside manner might just need a little tweaking too, as they went on to inform me that for many people the 2nd dose of C19 is more serious than the first :eek: - maybe this info was well meant in that they wanted people to take it seriously and still follow all the necessary precautions, but still, it could create unnecessary anxiety.

It is now day 5 since my exposure, and as you'd expect given I've already had C19, I have yet to show any symptoms. (touch wood)
 
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BlueRidge

AYS's snark-sponge
Messages
56,861
I've been mulling over the herd immunity thing since its been getting a lot of press. I often find myself wondering why a university has to shut down when its reported a slew of students test positive--when they all have either no symptoms or very mild symptoms. Why not open up when people getting CV just aren't very sick?

But it doesn't take very much time before you see that places where there are more cases are finding their medical facilities reaching capacity and go quickly into a situation where if cases rose even more as more people were exposed it would be a major crisis. There clearly would be more deaths even with the improved treatment we now have if medical resources were stretched thin.

So the herd immunity proposal it seems to me turns on one of two things, either the government taking drastic action to isolate anyone who has a risk factor from the rest of society, which strikes me as a huge and nearly impossible task, or simply trading off a more open economy for an ongoing crisis of medical resources and the disruption of many people getting sick and deaths increasing.

Its hard to see why people would go ahead and seriously advocate the proposal unless they have studies that show something that is very different from everything we've experienced with this p-demic.

I'd like there to be a different way of doing things that was less bad but I don't see how the herd immunity proposal comes anywhere near being an improvement on how the p-demic is being handled.

And it really doesn't matter if Dr. Johnny Bananas signed onto a web document. What matters is the proposal doesn't stand up to scrutiny.
 

Miezekatze

Well-Known Member
Messages
15,193
Yeah, it's just not possible to use herd immunity as a strategy, as long as the medical system gets overloaded when the ***** runs free.

I think the only discussion point is: what is the best way to slow the uncontrolled spread down enough to keep society, economy AND the health system going until the ***** spread is under control enough in order to not be a serious threat anymore.
 

million$momma

Well-Known Member
Messages
423
Herd immunity works only if people remain immune for an extended period of time. We are not seeing that type of immunity forming here. With precautions in place people are becoming reinfected.
 

vesperholly

Well-Known Member
Messages
12,783
Their bedside manner might just need a little tweaking too, as they went on to inform me that for many people the 2nd dose of C19 is more serious than the first :eek: - maybe this info was well meant in that they wanted people to take it seriously and still follow all the necessary precautions, but still, it could create unnecessary anxiety.
What exactly constitutes "many people"? Haven't there been only 5 cases of proven reinfection worldwide out of 40 million plus infections? :confused:

 

quartz

almost, but not quite
Messages
14,136
Talked to my brother in Iowa last night, their county is currently the worst in the state. One of his daughters is an obstetrics nurse in a small town hospital and is now caring for YKW patients, who are over half of the total patients. They are having problems transferring the most critical cases to larger, more well-equipped hospitals, because they are full too.
He also has a daughter in South Dakota, and her twin daughters have just started high school this fall - they are both in marching band. When I commented that marching band seemed a particularly bad idea, given the blowing of brass instruments and the saliva that would be flying about, I was told that “the mothers made masks with holes so the kids could play their instruments, and some instruments have little socks on the ends of them.” :wall: :wall: :wall:
 

FGRSK8

Toad whisperer.....
Messages
19,471
I find myself in a strange situation.

I had C19 for 2 weeks in September and presumably now have some antibodies.
Then yesterday I got a call from the French equivalent of a "Track and Trace" service saying that the student I taught for an hour on Monday has tested positive for C19.

They told me that I must self-isolate for 10 days and I must have a C19 test on Monday.
I explained that I had already had C19 in September and they said that that even if I have antibodies I still have to be retested as antibodies don't guarantee that I will not get a 2nd dose of C19.

Their bedside manner might just need a little tweaking too, as they went on to inform me that for many people the 2nd dose of C19 is more serious than the first :eek: - maybe this info was well meant in that they wanted people to take it seriously and still follow all the necessary precautions, but still, it could create unnecessary anxiety.

It is now day 5 since my exposure, and as you'd expect given I've already had C19, I have yet to show any symptoms. (touch wood)
God, I hope the immunity lasts longer than a few months. Lady Figureskates went through 4 month of hell with this thing. The worst was the overwhelming fatigue that was so bad, she stayed days in bed. Then the Parkinson like symptoms, the loss of taste and smell. No appetite and weight loss. She was down to 95 pounds at one point. Her appetite is back in full form and she has put back almost 10 pounds. She finally began to snap out of it at the end of September. She is able to drink wine again which she couldn’t stand through most of the summer. Her taste for coffee is almost back. Friends of ours who also had this thing said the desire for coffee is the last to comeback.

i don’t think she could go through this again...
 

Dobre

Well-Known Member
Messages
8,120
What exactly constitutes "many people"? Haven't there been only 5 cases of proven reinfection worldwide out of 40 million plus infections? :confused:

I believe the stats thus far do indicate that it is very rare. However, I also highly doubt the number 5 is an accurate representation. Early this week, I read there was a woman in Idaho (sick both in March & now). Then the man in Nevada (officially confirmed). Then another article saying 3 Americans. Then another one saying someone in yet another state was likely. This feels a bit like a snowball effect & a bit like when the news started coming out about children getting MIS-C. We can't really know what the likelihood of reinfection is at this time because it depends on what the average length of wait time would be prior to reinfection. Are these people representative of how rare reinfection is? Or are they rare early presenters and should we expect the percentage of reinfection cases to climb a lot as more time passes?
 

Louis

Private citizen
Messages
14,993
Herd seems bad, but bubble seems good - so I'll use bubble.

We've already created "bubbles" around high-risk populations -- e.g., nursing / care homes.

We could also create "bubbles" around low-risk populations -- e.g., university students -- and let the v*rus rip (while protecting professors with ER-style gowns and plexiglass). No one would be forced into these bubbles, but they could choose of their own volition to join the herd/bubble. Similar to the high-risk herd/bubble, the low-risk herd would have to deal with draconian restrictions re: not mixing with other bubbles/herds.
 

skatfan

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,995
An article about Southern Italy - curious to have @Louis comments.


About university bubbles: impossible to do with almost all US campuses, as significant numbers of students live off campus and are not controllable by the universities. They are partying up with abandon. Tucson and Phoenix areas have a lot of cases now and not much ability to stem the problem.
 

missing

Well-Known To Whom She Wonders
Messages
3,629
Herd seems bad, but bubble seems good - so I'll use bubble.

We've already created "bubbles" around high-risk populations -- e.g., nursing / care homes.

We could also create "bubbles" around low-risk populations -- e.g., university students -- and let the v*rus rip (while protecting professors with ER-style gowns and plexiglass). No one would be forced into these bubbles, but they could choose of their own volition to join the herd/bubble. Similar to the high-risk herd/bubble, the low-risk herd would have to deal with draconian restrictions re: not mixing with other bubbles/herds.

The high-risk population "bubbles" don't always work either.




KNOXVILLE, Tenn. (AP) — Sixteen residents and one staff member have died due to a *********-19 outbreak at a nursing home in eastern Tennessee.

The Knoxville News Sentinel reports that more than two-fifths of The Heritage Center’s residents have tested positive for the new ********. Meanwhile, a fourth of the residents who have tested positive have died.
 

Susan1

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,965
I haven't been out of the house since Wednesday, so first to CVS to use my 30%. The clerks were changing shifts. The one guy is always in there. The other one asked if it was safe to leave him in there without getting in a fight. Turns out, he tried to get a big guy (and both of these guys are big) to not come in without a mask and the guy got "irate". Sheesh. I asked why nobody every does anything, and he said it's not worth it. I told them about the Kroger employee. He said I should have turned her into the company. If I see her again without her mask up, I will. I'd have to get close enough to see her nametag. Not that it would do any good. I'd have to take a picture or she and her fellow employees would say I was lying.

Then I went to the library. No problem.

Then I was driving by Walgreen's on the way back to Kroger and I thought I'd go in and see if they had any sugar free cherry cough drops because CVS doesn't carry them anymore. They help me from getting dried out in the mask and not sniff. The only thing they have in sugar free is menthol, and I can't use those. So I go toward the cough drops and an employee was stocking shelves right there without a mask. I didn't say anything. (Oh, I think I saw a vulture flying over the parking lot! I swear. It was just soaring along way up. But it was really big. I stayed under the overhang and watched it for a couple minutes. It looked like it had a white head, so maybe it was an eagle! There are nests around here. It flew off over the Speedway.)

So, to Kroger. I got inside and they didn't have any little carts. The guy was just bringing in some big ones and I asked if the little ones were going to be next. He said yes. So I stood out of the way against the windows in the lobby. There were hardly any carts there, so people didn't have to walk close to me. Two different big guys walked in separately without masks. I looked away so they wouldn't beat me up for glaring at them. And a woman came out into the lobby and took her stuff out of her cart and left it there and took her mask off. I have taken my mask off outside on the way to the car if there was nobody coming when it was hot, but man. I'm not going to look at the numbers on the dashboard today.
 

skatingfan5

Past Prancer's Corridor
Messages
13,621
Just had my third C0VID test this morning at CVS drive-thru. Had to schedule an appointment on-line with all required medical and insurance info submitted so I assumed things would go quickly. Wrong! We waited in a line of cars (there were 3 ahead of us) for 50 minutes before reaching the pharmacy window and then it was more than another 10 for them to print out the paperwork and hand out the testing supplies. The self-administered test took less than 2 minutes total, but it was 65 minutes since we arrived at the stated appointment time. They said this was the second day for the test site so I hope things improve. Oh well, at least I got it done and sure hope the results come back negative. I'm here in Ohio to help out my sister who is recovering from heart surgery and I'm paranoid about her getting the crud from me. In the 36 hours since I arrived I have been keeping my distance and wearing a mask but I still worry, especially since I had some crud-compatible symptoms (nasal congestion, runny nose, headache several days ago and a sore throat for brief period Thursday night while I was enroute). I can't think of anything worse than getting my sister sick.
 

Dobre

Well-Known Member
Messages
8,120
Minnesota, Illinois, and Indiana all turned red on the NPR map today:(.

States currently red/with 25+ cases per 100,000: North Dakota, South Dakota, Montana, Wisconsin, Idaho, Alaska, Wyoming, Nebraska, Utah, Oklahoma, Iowa, Mississippi, Tennessee, Arkansas, Missouri, Minnesota, Illinois, Indiana.

18 states.

Hospitalizations are surging here in Oregon. There are no counties currently being sent down to lower phases right now as per capita numbers for counties are not yet as bad as they were in some counties this summer, but the problem is that now the densely populated counties are where case numbers are rising. So while, per capita, the situation for those counties is not as bad as it was in some of the rural counties this summer, there are more cases and more sick people overall.
 

skatingfan5

Past Prancer's Corridor
Messages
13,621
^ I just came from Illinois and my niece who has been here since my sister's surgery is returning home to Minnesota tomorrow. :(
 

MacMadame

Staying at home
Messages
37,278
I was told that “the mothers made masks with holes so the kids could play their instruments, and some instruments have little socks on the ends of them.” :wall: :wall: :wall:
That is actually what experts recommend. They've done some modeling with band instruments and it looks like most of the spit stays in the instrument. I posted about this in the school thread.

They recommend people practicing together to face all in the same direction (so you aren't playing in someone's face) and to keep 6 ft apart. They don't recommend the socks but the end of the instruments is a place that aerosols escape (though in the models, in small amounts that didn't travel far) so it can't hurt.

Okay; how do you propose to create bubbles within households where some members are low risk and some are high?
Bubbles are fragile and easily popped.

I know people want desperately to come up with a plan that doesn't include having to close some activities and businesses down. But epidemiologists and virologists aren't idiots. Do people think they haven't thought of these things? (It's not an area like nutrition where most of the studies are crap and many programs aren't evidence-based.)

The only ********* I know about where herd immunity was achieved without a vaccine is the Black Plague which eventually mostly died out after a century or so.

There is the 1918 Flu, which took years (1918 through the early 1920s). Though it turns out our seasonal cases of flu are descendants of that flu so in some ways it's still here. But we have vaccines and it's not as deadly so we can cope.
 

quartz

almost, but not quite
Messages
14,136
That is actually what experts recommend. They've done some modeling with band instruments and it looks like most of the spit stays in the instrument. I posted about this in the school thread.

They recommend people practicing together to face all in the same direction (so you aren't playing in someone's face) and to keep 6 ft apart. They don't recommend the socks but the end of the instruments is a place that aerosols escape (though in the models, in small amounts that didn't travel far) so it can't hurt.


Bubbles are fragile and easily popped.

I know people want desperately to come up with a plan that doesn't include having to close some activities and businesses down. But epidemiologists and virologists aren't idiots. Do people think they haven't thought of these things? (It's not an area like nutrition where most of the studies are crap and many programs aren't evidence-based.)

The only ********* I know about where herd immunity was achieved without a vaccine is the Black Plague which eventually mostly died out after a century or so.

There is the 1918 Flu, which took years (1918 through the early 1920s). Though it turns out our seasonal cases of flu are descendants of that flu so in some ways it's still here. But we have vaccines and it's not as deadly so we can cope.
Ok, thanks for the info, but marching band with young teenagers still sounds like a BAD IDEA to me!
 

MacMadame

Staying at home
Messages
37,278
Ok, thanks for the info, but marching band with young teenagers still sounds like a BAD IDEA to me!
Me too until I read the article.

I think it depends on how seriously the kids take it. Some places will have no issues because the kids will follow the rules and in others, well we've seen how that turns out.
 

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