News & Experiences continued

antmanb

Well-Known Member
Messages
10,248
Given that the "circuit breaker" lockdown was leaked to the press weeks ago I imagine that the government will announce that for the week of half term and a week or two after that to try to control cases.

I honestly don't understand why more "draconian" mask laws aren't put in place before business are asked to closed. Surely wearing a mask is less of an imposition than closing entire industries?

Or we just have to lockdown properly again for a number of weeks to let the cases and hospital admissions get back down under control again.
 

hanca

Values her privacy
Messages
10,609
I guess the government is in no win situation. When there was a total lockdown, people were complaining, including you @Louis , and suggesting that some local lockdown should be a better solution. Now they are trying to do the local arrangements, which I agree are not working, and people moan about how confused they are and how much easier it would be to have the total lockdown. It is a bit of no win situation.

I don’t believe in local arrangements; they are clearly not working. Too many people are finding exceptions and reasons to break them. It seems to me that in March the government was unrealistically hoping that if they do nothing, things might not get as bad. Then they were forced to do something but it was too late. Now they seem to have learned that doing nothing is not a solution, but they still don’t have the balls to do something more robust. They are trying any milder options to avoid the total lockdown and it is not working. By the time they will realise it is not working, it will be again too late. We will end up in the lockdown around Christmas, which will be really sad for most families, but also for the economy because there won’t be any spending in times which are usually extremely busy at shopping. Also, if the food shopping ends up same as in March, we will be lucky if there is any Christmas because I can see empty shelves and people really fighting for Christmas pudding, mince pies, roast meat and other things that make Christmas dinner different than any other dinner.
 

Lorac

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,239
I agree the regionalised restrictions here in the UK are just not working and the different tiers are very confusing. I also feel masks should be mandated in all areas of life - inside and out. In school and work. In pubs and restaurants, in the cinema and museums. Everywhere. I just don't understand the reasoning for wearing masks moving from classroom to classroom but then to be able to take the off in class when you are spending more than 15 minutes with many others in relatively close contact - any of whom could have the crud!! I do feel sorry for bus drivers who insist someone wears a mask to get on the bus but is then helpless to do anything when they take off their mask once on the bus. And if you are exempt to wear a mask then you need to wear a face visor. It may not be as protective as a mask but is better than nothing.

And our lockdown in March wasn't even a full lockdown - too many people ignoring the rules even then. I think we need a much more stringent lockdown for 2-4 weeks - a circuit breaker of sorts - otherwise we are in for an awful winter!!
 

Louis

Private citizen
Messages
14,993
The local lockdowns aren't really lockdowns, though -- they're closing a few things, while leaving many more equal / higher risk things open, without (as far as I can tell) any rhyme or reason. Many other people then rightly say "this is bollocks" and ignore everything.

I don't think they're not working because they're local; I think they're not working because there are more exceptions than rules, and the science behind all of these rules and exceptions is lacking.
 

antmanb

Well-Known Member
Messages
10,248
Schools and colleges are the worst - students do not have to wear masks anywhere in those, not in class or in between classes.

My work wife's sister works in pastoral care for a further education college (16-18 year olds) and her observation is that teenagers who were effectively locked down at home for six months came back to college in September, hormones raging, having lacked any kind of ability to socialise and her description is that the corridors of the college resemble a "slug orgie" The kids are all over each other, cannot be convinced (or forced) to wear masks or keep a distance.
 

Jenny

From the Bloc
Messages
21,267
Typical example of the issues around regional measures and tiered systems - my city is currently in a stage that has closed all gyms. It's no surprise then that gyms in bordering regions are suddenly having an influx of customers and long lineups to get in.

I mentioned this before - people are just going to regions where they can get/do what they want. The issue of movement between jurisdictions, and whether one is to follow the guidance in their home region or in the one where they are spending any time, hasn't been fully addressed in anything I've read.
 
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Jenny

From the Bloc
Messages
21,267
Schools and colleges are the worst - students do not have to wear masks anywhere in those, not in class or in between classes.

My work wife's sister works in pastoral care for a further education college (16-18 year olds) and her observation is that teenagers who were effectively locked down at home for six months came back to college in September, hormones raging, having lacked any kind of ability to socialise and her description is that the corridors of the college resemble a "slug orgie" The kids are all over each other, cannot be convinced (or forced) to wear masks or keep a distance.
Exactly. Teens and twentysomethings tend to have a more fearless attitude anyway, and all the focus on old people makes them think they are immune, or at least will survive it (because, dontcha know, Barron Trump has it but "he's a strong teenage boy and he doesn't have symptoms"). Doesn't likely help that their parents want them to come home for holidays because they've decided that their little angels, as members of their family bubble, are doing all the right things.

From my window I can see a schoolyard - kids around 11-14. When school started, they had painted big rings in the grass and kids were in small groups inside them, I guess by class. A month later, those are long gone, kids are everywhere, no masks (I'm assuming they wear them indoors though), and in the off hours, the basketball courts are filled with older kids, no masks, all breathing all over each other as they play, not to mention passing joints around when they are not. And then they all go home to their family bubbles, safe and sound.
 

Miezekatze

Well-Known Member
Messages
15,193
Somehow I think what is happening now everywhere, is probably exactly what happened during the Spanish flu too, just without people sharing their experiences from different parts of the world over the internet :lol:

Someone in a German forum even shared a photo of some old poster for an anti-mask demonstration from back then. She was currently reading this book and said it's like the author is writing about *********:

 

Prancer

Needs More Sleep
Staff member
Messages
50,582
Somehow I think what is happening now everywhere, is probably exactly what happened during the Spanish flu too, just without people sharing their experiences from different parts of the world over the internet :lol:
Yes, there were antimask protests in the US and places where the local governments had lockdowns and places where the local government refused to have lockdowns and encouraged people to go out and about. And because of the war, a lot of national governments hid statistics, rejected any kind of lockdown and kept people working even though they knew that a lot of civilians would die.

A lot of what you see epidemiologists and public health experts saying now comes from lessons learned from the Spanish flu.
 

BlueRidge

AYS's snark-sponge
Messages
56,861
Yes, there were antimask protests in the US and places where the local governments had lockdowns and places where the local government refused to have lockdowns and encouraged people to go out and about. And because of the war, a lot of national governments hid statistics, rejected any kind of lockdown and kept people working even though they knew that a lot of civilians would die

IIRC from the book The Great Influenza this is why it was called the Spanish Flu because Spain was one of the only countries to report about it.

And another similarity (from The Great Influenza book) was that the president of the United States played down the ***** because he wanted to focus solely on WWI.

Humans tend to be human in all eras.
 

FGRSK8

Toad whisperer.....
Messages
19,471
It is really fascinating how so many things from the Spanish Flu ********* are so similar to what we are seeing now.
Actually throughout history, all pandemics act more or less the same. There are repeated waves, usually the second being the worst.
 

Prancer

Needs More Sleep
Staff member
Messages
50,582
IIRC from the book The Great Influenza this is why it was called the Spanish Flu because Spain was one of the only countries to report about it.
Yes; no wartime censorship, at least not then. Most of the countries had the press firmly locked down.

And another similarity (from The Great Influenza book) was that the president of the United States played down the ***** because he wanted to focus solely on WWI.
And it was hidden and downplayed when he caught it.
 

missing

Well-Known To Whom She Wonders
Messages
3,629
Back in June, Florida had a superspreader hockey game.

WASHINGTON — More than a dozen people were infected with the ******** after a recreational hockey game in Tampa, according to a new Centers for Disease Control and Prevention study published on Thursday. The game, which took place on June 16, did not lead to any hospitalizations or deaths. But it does represent one of the few documented instances of viral spread stemming from an athletic event.

The players did not wear face masks, which likely contributed to their becoming infected.

The new study does not say where, exactly, the game took place, only that the rink was enclosed and somewhere in the Tampa area. The participants included 22 men between the ages of 19 and 53. There were two referees, a spectator and at least one rink employee also present.


What I find worrisome about this is the upcoming high school and college basketball season. Indoors with physical contact, lots of sweating and heavy breathing. I don't see how it can be safely played, or since the players will then go back to family or school or friends or church, how it can fail to spread to the community.
 

Susan1

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,965
Local noon news - Right while the reporter was standing outside of Miami Valley hospital talking about the rise in hospitalizations, and how the capacity was good, but if too many c.v. patients ended up in the hospitals, there wouldn't be any beds for traumas and other things, a medical helicopter was landing on the roof. They couldn't have planned that one.

I looked up our chart -
As of 10/15 -- Ohio

Beds
c.v. - 3.97%
non-c.v. - 71.1
available - 25.02

ICU
c.v. - 5.84
non-c.v. - 66.29
available - 27.87

Ventilator
c.v. - 2.54
non-c.v. - 25.51
available - 71.96

The mayor of Huber Heights - north of Dayton - has tested positive. Says he always wore a mask, but was within 6 ft. of people.

Dayton Mayor Nan Whaley said they might have to cancel the outdoor dining (streets blocked off on the weekends) in the Oregon District for the rest of the month because there have been too many reports of people not wearing masks. They were showing people outside, and one person walking into somewhere with a mask on. And I was thinking - how often do they sanitize all the door handles and other things, whether people have masks on or not.

Beavercreek schools are going to the "blended" system for at least two weeks, half go Monday/Wednesday, half go Tuesday/Thursday because Greene county is Red on the map again yesterday.
 
Messages
7,986
Back in June, Florida had a superspreader hockey game.

WASHINGTON — More than a dozen people were infected with the ******** after a recreational hockey game in Tampa, according to a new Centers for Disease Control and Prevention study published on Thursday. The game, which took place on June 16, did not lead to any hospitalizations or deaths. But it does represent one of the few documented instances of viral spread stemming from an athletic event.

The players did not wear face masks, which likely contributed to their becoming infected.

The new study does not say where, exactly, the game took place, only that the rink was enclosed and somewhere in the Tampa area. The participants included 22 men between the ages of 19 and 53. There were two referees, a spectator and at least one rink employee also present.


What I find worrisome about this is the upcoming high school and college basketball season. Indoors with physical contact, lots of sweating and heavy breathing. I don't see how it can be safely played, or since the players will then go back to family or school or friends or church, how it can fail to spread to the community.

My husband started playing hockey again last night. They're taking precautions and this is the first week and the league has already fined people ($500 each offence to the team which the teams can make individuals pay for) for not wearing masks where they're required to, basically anywhere except on the actual ice surface. It's a very recreational league so it's theoretically non-contact even when ynw isn't a concern but they're threatening fines and/or being kicked out of the league for any deliberate contact. If you get caught spitting on the ice or in the player's bench, you can also be fined or kicked out of the league. I'm not entirely sure who is policing that stuff or has the authority to hand out fines but my husband felt like people were following all the rules pretty well. It does concern me, but the mental health benefits of playing a sport and getting out of the house outweigh the risk for my husband 🤷‍♀️
 

Dobre

Well-Known Member
Messages
8,120
But it does represent one of the few documented instances of viral spread stemming from an athletic event.
I would ask what is this speaker's/writer's definition of "few?"

There was the soccer match in Italy, a golf tournament in Idaho, a hockey tournament in Alaska. Those are just off the top of my head.
 

MacMadame

Staying at home
Messages
37,278
I honestly don't understand why more "draconian" mask laws aren't put in place before business are asked to closed. Surely wearing a mask is less of an imposition than closing entire industries?
Our priorities are completely out of whack.

It is really fascinating how so many things from the Spanish Flu ********* are so similar to what we are seeing now.
It's like we didn't, I don't know, learn from history or something.

ETA new from Bay Area about our case counts:
 
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MacMadame

Staying at home
Messages
37,278
I keep forgetting to write about my experience at the dentist. Now I have one getting lab work done too.

Dentist:
They "screened" me over the phone a few days before my appointment. (My appointment was on Monday and they are closed on Friday so I think if my appointment was on Tues, it would have been the day before and not 4 days before.) Then when I got there, I called from the parking lot (which was almost empty). They asked me if anything had changed from the pre-screen and then had me come into the lobby and I thought I was the only one there.

But when I sat down, I saw another guy. We were sitting as far away from each other as possible (opposite corners) and I was sitting next to this noisy air filter machine. So I was nervous but knew intellectually it was okay. Then a man and his son came in and sat in the corner next to me. Now there were 4 people in the very small waiting room and the new ones were about 4 ft away from me and I was not happy about it. Then the wife/mother came out of the treatment area to talk to them. So FIVE people in this tiny waiting room. My unhappiness was growing exponentially.

Before my brain could explode 🤯, they had me come back to get my teeth cleaned. It seemed like there were more hygienists than I normally see but maybe it was my imagination. My hygenist was gloved and gowned and had a face mask and surgical mask. I think this normal for teeth cleaning but maybe they don't normally wear a face mask. I had on my mask too until the x-rays started.

The room had another of those enormous air filter machines and then they brought out some sort of funnel attached to the chair somehow that had another filter on it and put the opening by my mouth. So two machines filtering the air and sucking in any aerosols that might be created. It was hella noisy.

They cleaned my teeth manually, which tbh, I prefer. They were pretty yellow on the bottom from missing my last appointment but are fine now. She said my teeth were in 'okay' shape considering. (Surprised at that.) I have another appointment in 4 months so get completely back on track.

Another thing they are doing differently is that I didn't get to see the dentist. I have to come back for that appointment. This was to avoid "cross-contamination." I may ask them to cancel it unless there is something the dentist needs to tell me.

Laboratory:
Then today I finally got blood drawn for my annual labs. (I had tried before but it was too busy so I left.) I went earlier this time before 9 am, and it was less busy but I don't like how they are handling the lab.

They had everyone with an 8:30 am appointment (if you didn't have one ahead of time, they would slot you in where they had room) stand on the 6ft apart stickers and wait for the lab to come out and get us. We all had a number. I was #5. So we were all standing outside for quite a while as other patients for other departments came by, got screened, and left. There were about 4-5 screeners too. It was just too many people for me even if we were outside and somewhat social distancing.

Then about 10 of us went into the lab waiting room and sat down. They had a lot of chairs taped off so keep us spread out but there were really too many people and so we were spilling into the hallway. They called us up to 3 different stations to check-in by calling our numbers. And then as some nurses were checking us in, lab techs started to call us in for our tests.

While waiting, some people showed up who had been sent by their doctors and some people showed up with specimens to be processed. Then a doctor showed up to bitch at the lab manager that they weren't answering the phone.

So. many. people.

Anyway, being #5, I got called pretty quickly and was in and out of the actual lab pretty fast. They only took 6 tubes this time and the lab tech was really good so I only felt a pinch when the needle went in. (I still yelped though. :D)

I had to leave by walking past the line of people waiting for the next appointment slot. Ugh.

So I've had my labs for the year and hopefully next year it won't be so elaborate and being around people not in my household won't be so stressful. I still think they should keep with the conveyor belt system they used to have and just tell people who show up without appointments to come back at X time instead of waiting in the lobby. Having people show up in batches increases the number of people you are around compared to one person going in for each person who goes out IMO.
 

Susan1

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,965
I didn't want to look, but I did.

Cases - 177,991 / 24 hour reported - 2,148 (30 less than yesterday, so 2nd highest ever -
3 days over 2,000) / 21 day average - 1,386

Hospitalizations - 86 / 85
ICU - 15 / 13

Deaths - 16 / 15

Positivity - 10/14/20
Total tested - 40,760 - positivity rate - 5.1%
7 day moving average - 4.4%
 

SkateSand

Cat Servant
Messages
767
My county - the one with the megachurch C V spike - will be going into the dreaded purple tier in a matter of days according to the health department. Locals are furious with Bethel. They are a huge presence in our community and fund a lot of needed community projects, and they are definitely in damage control mode right now, but folks aren't having it. There was a huge brouhaha when one of the church elders posted an Instagram clip mocking mask use and deriding businesses that enforced mask policy so they are reeling from that, plus the spike that is resulting in the tier change.

 

Dobre

Well-Known Member
Messages
8,120
Over 400 cases in Oregon again today:cry:.

And . . . Lane County (Eugene/University of Oregon) has made it onto the ***** watch list:

Lane County placed on Oregon's *********-19 watch list for first time​


Eugene has not only made the top of the hotspot zip code list, but has managed to make the top 10 twice:p.

The city of Hermiston is no longer the hotspot in Umatilla County. Pendleton has more new cases now. Back when things were blowing up in Hermiston, there was an article about how people from Pendleton thought is was just a Hermiston problem. (Which I'd wager was part of the problem because my guess is that various people in county government are from Pendleton). So much for that. I'm not finding anything about where the new cases in Pendleton are coming from, but there is a prison & it already had a bunch of cases.

The Warm Springs Reservation is still on the zip code list. It seems like they have been on there forever.:(
 

missing

Well-Known To Whom She Wonders
Messages
3,629
The CV19 problems of a rural Kansas county.

Most of the 30-plus residents in the local nursing home tested positive, and six have died since late September. Besides the sheriff, the county’s emergency management director, the hospital CEO and more than 50 medical staff have tested positive. Even so, some leaders are reluctant to stir up ill will by talking about how often friends and neighbors wear masks or questioning how officials responded...

President Donald Trump is popular in the county, and local officials quickly abandoned a mask mandate this summer after getting heat from some local residents and amid the president’s criticism of such policies. Funerals and weddings went on. So did a homecoming football game between its two high schools, eight players to a side, on the last Friday in September, though people were encouraged to wear masks.
 

rfisher

Let the skating begin
Messages
63,893
It is really fascinating how so many things from the Spanish Flu ********* are so similar to what we are seeing now.
At least we haven't reached the bodies stacked up in the morgues and no funeral personnel to bury them. Yet. The sad thing is, public health officials have been sounding the alarm for decades and have been ignored.
 

sk8pics

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,424
Laboratory:
Then today I finally got blood drawn for my annual labs. (I had tried before but it was too busy so I left.) I went earlier this time before 9 am, and it was less busy but I don't like how they are handling the lab.

They had everyone with an 8:30 am appointment (if you didn't have one ahead of time, they would slot you in where they had room) stand on the 6ft apart stickers and wait for the lab to come out and get us. We all had a number. I was #5. So we were all standing outside for quite a while as other patients for other departments came by, got screened, and left. There were about 4-5 screeners too. It was just too many people for me even if we were outside and somewhat social distancing.
Did you have an appointment and still end up as #5? That’s crazy. The lab I go to is much better about not scheduling too many people. I had bloodwork done in September and was in and out in less than 10 minutes total. I was the only one with the tech and then there were 2 or 3 people in the waiting area when I left.

My YNW news is that I was supposed to be in Albuquerque next March for a conference, and they’ve already moved it on line. I’m not surprised that it’s on line, only that they’re telling us 6 months ahead of time.
 

MacMadame

Staying at home
Messages
37,278
Did you have an appointment and still end up as #5? That’s crazy.
I did not have an appointment. So I was pleased to be #5. But otherwise, less pleased. :D It's not clear to me how the numbers ran but they had a ton of them. I think they run X people through, then stop to clean everything, then run the next X through. And X is at least 14.

Note: I did try to get an appointment but they wouldn't let you do it online for that particular lab. This led me to believe that you had to just show up like we did pre-C19. And I was not the only one.
 
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sk8pics

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,424
Note: I did try to get an appointment but they wouldn't let you do it online for that particular lab. This led me to believe that you had to just show up like we did pre-C19. And I was not the only one.
Oh, that’s too bad. All the labs near me have been doing appointments for years now. I can’t even remember the last time I went for blood work without an appointment. Maybe once a year ago when I had to have something done and it didn’t need to be fasting, so I went late in the day and there was no one there.
 

Dobre

Well-Known Member
Messages
8,120
Mississippi turned red today on the NPR map.

The health director said the state may need to institute a mask mandate. They had one already, but the governor let it expire at the end of September. Yeah, that didn't work.
 

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