News and Updates about Russia's War against Ukraine.

MsZem

Well-Known Member
Messages
17,434
Yes, we don't know what will happen in the next few weeks, or months, or years. We don't know how events will play out or how the war will impact the course of politics in Belarus, or Russia, or much of Eastern Europe. This is the largest war in Europe in more than two decades, and it's likely to get much larger before it ends. We may not know the impact of these events for decades to come, and just because @TAHbKA wishes to be dismissive of the efforts, and sacrifices of people who are fighting for the freedom doesn't mean that I have to be.
She's not being dismissive, she's pointing out the cost to them has been extremely high. It is easy for us to say what we'd do in their place, or if we were in Russia. But taking a principled stand is hard, and the cost to doing so can be beyond what most people can bear.

As for the athletes who took part in the pro-war show, either they wanted to be there, which is awful, or they didn't and were pressured because authorities have some hold on them. Which is awful in a different way.

Obviously these challenges are not equivalent to those being experienced by people in Ukraine. There are also people in the world who have had it even worse than the population of Ukraine. It is possible to have compassion for those experiencing different types of adversity, even if some are more extreme than others.
 

Asli

Well-Known Member
Messages
12,638
We may not know the impact of these events for decades to come, and just because @TAHbKA wishes to be dismissive of the efforts, and sacrifices of people who are fighting for the freedom doesn't mean that I have to be.
I think there is a misunderstanding. Noone is dismissive of the efforts and sacrifices. The point is that the cost to those people and their families is so great that others cannot be blamed for choosing not to make those sacrifices. As long as they don't actively support the war of course.
 

PRlady

Well-Known Member
Messages
39,667
Clearly many ordinary Russians are leaving despite the hardships: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/17/opinion/russian-migrants-putin-war-ukraine.html

As the grandchild of immigrants who has lived as an expat, I don’t minimize the difficulties. But international skating medalists have skills. They can perform and/or coach. They have connections abroad, Russian and foreign. All I’m saying is that it isn’t that they have no choices, they do, at least until Putin closes the borders.
 

airgelaal

Well-Known Member
Messages
692
As for the athletes who took part in the pro-war show, either they wanted to be there, which is awful, or they didn't and were pressured because authorities have some hold on them. Which is awful in a different way.
Plushenko and Sotnikova happily danced among the audience. Were they forced too? Why couldn't they force Zagitova or Mamun?
Why are Davis/Smolkin still in the US?
 

Asli

Well-Known Member
Messages
12,638
Clearly many ordinary Russians are leaving despite the hardships: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/17/opinion/russian-migrants-putin-war-ukraine.html

As the grandchild of immigrants who has lived as an expat, I don’t minimize the difficulties. But international skating medalists have skills. They can perform and/or coach. They have connections abroad, Russian and foreign. All I’m saying is that it isn’t that they have no choices, they do, at least until Putin closes the borders.
Yes, it looks like at least some skaters support Putin. Some of the skaters in that "celebration" looked happy about being there. Cross country skiing olympic champion Aleksandr Bolshunov was not wearing a Z and looking miserable. I hope they don't take away his passport.
 

MsZem

Well-Known Member
Messages
17,434
Plushenko and Sotnikova happily danced among the audience. Were they forced too? Why couldn't they force Zagitova or Mamun?
Why are Davis/Smolkin still in the US?
As for the athletes who took part in the pro-war show, either they wanted to be there, which is awful, or they didn't and were pressured because authorities have some hold on them. Which is awful in a different way.
I have no idea why some athletes were prioritized over others. Zagitova is not a reigning Olympic medalist, so that might have something to do with it. Davis is a US citizen and has been based there for years, why would she be elsewhere?
 
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marbri

Hey, Kool-Aid!
Messages
14,951
Oh please. Ukraine experienced a revolution in 2004 and in 2013-14. Do you think we didn’t have powerful propaganda and weren’t scared? If all those who say that they are against the war came out, they would not be able to beat them all and arrest them. What did all these Russians do when their freedom was taken away step by step? Were they afraid, made compromises and were silent?
I'm sorry, but I don't understand and I don't want to understand. Precisely because we went through all this and we know how it is.
About a week ago I watched Winter on Fire: Ukraine's Fight for Freedom on Netflix. As with everything I am sure there will be critics but I for one found it compelling and I think it's maybe something many of us would benefit from watching for a number of reasons.
 

gralha

New Member
Messages
6
I have no idea why some athletes were prioritized over others. Zagitova is not a reigning Olympic medalist, so that might have something to do with it. Davis is a US citizen and has been based there for years, why would she be elsewhere?
Olympic champion is a permanent status)
 

Dobre

Well-Known Member
Messages
12,807
There are soldiers getting called back up on duty & I assume some already standing at the borders of Ukraine, people taking strangers into their homes, political leaders over the age of 65 risking their health by traveling during a pandemic and at least three even traveling into Ukraine. There are reporters embedded in the war zone and risking arrest by reporting in Russia. There are people from different countries enlisting to fight in Ukraine. There are leaders risking their careers by employing sanctions that will raise prices and impact their constituents. (And if the wrong people take advantage, we will all suffer). There are Belarusians defying their leader in order to punch back against military commitment and I assume there are also protests going on in some countries where it is frowned upon. There are organizations and churches taking in refugees & dedicating unknown amounts of time & resources. There are businesses (ones with options) that are pulling out of Russia and losing money, planes, customers, etc. And people whose jobs will be impacted by this. Of course, all this pales in comparison to what Ukrainians are losing and what we could all lose if Putin keeps attacking.

On a nationwide scale, there are other, greater risks.

Russians are certainly facing serious risks, and I appreciate your insight into some of them. My post was in response to a statement saying that people helping Ukraine are not taking a risk. I believe many are.
 

skatingguy

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,918
She's not being dismissive, she's pointing out the cost to them has been extremely high. It is easy for us to say what we'd do in their place, or if we were in Russia. But taking a principled stand is hard, and the cost to doing so can be beyond what most people can bear.

As for the athletes who took part in the pro-war show, either they wanted to be there, which is awful, or they didn't and were pressured because authorities have some hold on them. Which is awful in a different way.

Obviously these challenges are not equivalent to those being experienced by people in Ukraine. There are also people in the world who have had it even worse than the population of Ukraine. It is possible to have compassion for those experiencing different types of adversity, even if some are more extreme than others.
I agree with everything you said about the cost to the Russian people, and the athletes attending the rally, but I wasn't referring to any of that in my responses. I was responding to the original comment about what happened in Belarus, and I do feel that she was dismissive of the Belarusian democracy movement, and what it accomplished in a relatively short period of time. It may not have toppled Lukashenko yet, but his regime is still vulnerable, and we don't know what will happen if, for example, Russia has to deploy troops, and resources away from Belarus to continue the war in Ukraine.
 

reut

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,853
Preparations underway for Zelensky Knesset speech
https://www.timesofisrael.com/prepa...-knesset-speech-amid-fears-of-low-mk-turnout/
https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/sye11009mg5#autoplay (more detailed, in Hebrew)

It will look different, because the Knesset is in recess, some members are abroad, and the building is undergoing renovations.
There will be live streams, also with option without simultaneous translation (so we'll be able to actually hear him).
 

Asli

Well-Known Member
Messages
12,638
There are soldiers getting called back up on duty & I assume some already standing at the borders of Ukraine, people taking strangers into their homes, political leaders over the age of 65 risking their health by traveling during a pandemic and at least three even traveling into Ukraine. There are reporters embedded in the war zone and risking arrest by reporting in Russia. There are people from different countries enlisting to fight in Ukraine. There are leaders risking their careers by employing sanctions that will raise prices and impact their constituents. (And if the wrong people take advantage, we will all suffer). There are Belarusians defying their leader in order to punch back against military commitment and I assume there are also protests going on in some countries where it is frowned upon. There are organizations and churches taking in refugees & dedicating unknown amounts of time & resources. There are businesses (ones with options) that are pulling out of Russia and losing money, planes, customers, etc. And people whose jobs will be impacted by this. Of course, all this pales in comparison to what Ukrainians are losing and what we could all lose if Putin keeps attacking.

On a nationwide scale, there are other, greater risks.

Russians are certainly facing serious risks, and I appreciate your insight into some of them. My post was in response to a statement saying that people helping Ukraine are not taking a risk. I believe many are.

I feel better after reading your post, what with all of that being done. :)

ITA, the soldiers enlisting to fight for Ukraine and Belorussians defying Lukashenko are taking the kind of risks I was talking about. Though at least the foreign soldiers' families are safe at home.

The risks I was talking about were not catching covid, losing time or money. As for the companies, we would boycott any company doing business with Russia and that, probably even after the war. So whether they are doing it to help Ukraine or not, they have more to gain than to lose by puling out of Russia.

I think Europeans have a kind of wisdom gained through centuries of war and destruction. They can see things in perspective. Ukraine is being invaded. All other issues are now in the background. Whatever efforts or sacrifices they are making, they're getting on with it without much ado.
 

babayaga

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,192
Kherson today:
There are protests every day in various occupied towns. Russian fascists know they are not welcome. They will not be able to make it look as if locals wanted them like they were able in 2014.
 

Asli

Well-Known Member
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12,638
www.facebook.com

Олена Кулигіна - Ðайкраща новина Ñьогодні — це визволеннÑ...

179 views, 58 likes, 19 loves, 3 comments, 17 shares, Facebook Watch Videos from Олена Кулигіна: Найкраща новина сьогодні — це визволення з полону Oleh...

That's amazing! Are they saying "Go home"?
 

babayaga

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,192
By the way, those who think that Russians are against the war, but are afraid or whatever. You should listen to intercepted conversations of Russian soldiers with their mothers and wives. It's really eye opening.
They couldn't care less about Ukrainians. They complain about prices at home, Zara and other brands leaving, asking to steal a phone from some local Ukrainian to call more often. Soldiers are bragging about stuff they stole from homes of Ukrainians, their wives are happy and praising them.
 

Judy

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,258
I wish I could say with absolute certainty I would risk my life to protest the criminal actions of Russia.

I think I might, but it is easier to say that I would sitting in my living room watching basketball, than if Russian police were holding a gun to my family.

I'm not defending skaters or elite people in Russia, I'm just saying I don't know for certain what I would do.

My heart hurts so. I can't believe that we are reliving the horrors of Hilter through Putin.
I’m a very honest person. I would not dealing well at all. I hate violence and war … I’d be a mess.
 

text_skate

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,616
"Workers of Chornobyl nuclear power plant evacuated. 64 people trapped at the Chornobyl Nuclear Power Plant, occupied by Russia, were released. 46 employees volunteered to take their place and traveled to the occupied facility."

according to zerkalo
"50 of them were plant personnel, 9 employees of the National Guard of Ukraine (8 women and 1 cancer patient), 1 employee of the State Emergency Service, and 4 "stalkers"."
 

Hedwig

WoolSilk Fanatic
Messages
20,285
"Workers of Chornobyl nuclear power plant evacuated. 64 people trapped at the Chornobyl Nuclear Power Plant, occupied by Russia, were released. 46 employees volunteered to take their place and traveled to the occupied facility."

according to zerkalo
"50 of them were plant personnel, 9 employees of the National Guard of Ukraine (8 women and 1 cancer patient), 1 employee of the State Emergency Service, and 4 "stalkers"."
those volunteers are heroes.
 

kosjenka

Pogorilaya’s fairy godmother
Messages
4,728
Yes, those phone calls are mind boggling.
They are the same as those intercepted by Croatian intelligence during early 90s from Serbian forces. Many of them were bragging what they got for themselves and their family back in Serbia ect.

But there were calls worried about what is happening and what they were witnessing and participating in. War brings out criminals of all shades.
 

babayaga

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,192
So these sugar fights seem to continue all over Russia: https://twitter.com/AlexandruC4/status/1505198364811534339
The entire thread is very entertaining.
And among tons of sugar lines videos, there is one that is claimed to be an anti-war protest in Novosibirsk. I heard before that people hate Putin in eastern parts of Russia. So maybe if there will be massive protests they won't start in Moscow or St Petersburg but in Siberia.
 

barbk

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,505
By the way, those who think that Russians are against the war, but are afraid or whatever. You should listen to intercepted conversations of Russian soldiers with their mothers and wives. It's really eye opening.
They couldn't care less about Ukrainians. They complain about prices at home, Zara and other brands leaving, asking to steal a phone from some local Ukrainian to call more often. Soldiers are bragging about stuff they stole from homes of Ukrainians, their wives are happy and praising them.
These are not honorable soldiers. I won't be sorry if many of them make it back home inside plastic bags. Then their mothers/wives can complain about the costs of funerals. Too bad, so sad.
 

hoptoad

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,750
I'm hoping logistics really is the Russian Achilles heel:

conclusion from a thread on truck maintenance (or lack thereof):
Between the end of April and Mid-May 2022, the Ukrainian Army will be able to counter-attack EVERYWHERE. Because there will be NOWHERE more than 20 miles/30 km inside Ukraine where Russian troops won't be out of food and low on ammunition.
 

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