News and Updates about Russia's War against Ukraine.

Karen-W

Well-Known Member
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17,587
Trump being in the White House meant Putin didn’t need to.
Well, it isn't like Obama expressed anything more than mild outrage and did nada when Putin invaded Crimea...

But, really, let's keep harping on what Trump or Obama or Bush 2 or Clinton did or didn't do that helped lead to the rise of Putin, and not focus at all on anything the guy who is currently in charge is doing.
 

skatingguy

Well-Known Member
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11,918
Honestly, I'm not sure. I think it is too simplistic to say "well, Putin didn't try this crap while Trump was in office" but that's more because I think Putin has lost his grip on reality than anything else.
Important to point out to people who say that sort of thing that Putin laid the groundwork for this invasion during the Trump administration. The Kerch Strait incident in 2018 was the first combat between Ukrainian & Russian forces since the annexation of Ukrainian territory began in 2014.

The Putin regime also started handing out Russian passports to people in the Donbas region in 2019 so that they could claim that they were going to protect Russian citizens when they sent troops in Donetsk, and Luhansk.

 

Karen-W

Well-Known Member
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17,587
Important to point out to people who say that sort of thing that Putin laid the groundwork for this invasion during the Trump administration. The Kerch Strait incident was the first combat between Ukrainian & Russian forces since the annexation of Ukrainian territory began in 2014.

The Putin regime also started handing out Russian passports to people in the Donbas region in 2019 so that they could claim that they were going to protect Russian citizens when they sent troops in Donetsk, and Luhansk.

Again, a lot of you Trump-haters are selectively ignoring the fact that Obama did less when Putin invaded Crimea in 2014 than Biden is now being forced to do because Putin's gone off the deep end. 🙄

I explained where I think Biden has made some critical missteps in trying to clean up the mess of his predecessorS. Not just Trump but Obama, Bush 2, etc. And all any of you can seem to do is stay stuck in "well, but Trump..." Strangely enough, Trump isn't in charge any more, so maybe focus on what Biden is doing (or not doing), mmmkay?
 

Tesla

Whippet Good
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2,929
Well, it isn't like Obama expressed anything more than mild outrage and did nada when Putin invaded Crimea...

But, really, let's keep harping on what Trump or Obama or Bush 2 or Clinton did or didn't do that helped lead to the rise of Putin, and not focus at all on anything the guy who is currently in charge is doing.
But what is Biden supposed to do? What is the US supposed to do? The US just can't go into Ukraine. Europe needs to lead the charge against Putin. The US is doing the best it can with sanctions.

ETA Judging by Trump's remarks about Putin, I think the US would be doing nothing if Trump were president.
 

Stephanie

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2,354
The Bolshoi Ballet's planned London "season" (normally it's around 3 weeks worth of performances) this summer, which I believe is quite lucrative for them, has been cancelled:

The 2022 schedule of Moscow's Bolshoi Ballet also is being affected by reaction to the invasion.

London's Royal Opera House said on February 25 it was canceling a season of performances by the famed ensemble.

"A summer season of the Bolshoi Ballet at the Royal Opera House had been in the final stages of planning," it said in a statement. "Unfortunately, under the current circumstances, the season cannot now go ahead."

 

BlueRidge

AYS's snark-sponge
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60,450
The figures from the poll linked above showed a majority of Americans supporting the sanctions, but that number significantly declining if they start to hit us economically.

How about setting aside the partisan :argue: for the sake of Ukraine and instead hone your arguments to convince people in your social and social media circles to stick with the sanctions and strengthen them even when they hit home for us.

We can disagree on Biden and still agree to push him for a harder stand economically and diplomatically toward Russia.
 

aka_gerbil

Rooting for the Underdogs
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4,713
But what is Biden supposed to do? What is the US supposed to do? The US just can't go into Ukraine. Europe needs to lead the charge against Putin. The US is doing the best it can with sanctions.

Europe needs to knuckle down and do the hard thing and cut off access to SWIFT.

I’m not sure what more they US can do at this moment. It’s unlikely Congress would give approval to do more.



ETA Judging by Trump's remarks about Putin, I think the US would be doing nothing if Trump were president.
Or, he’d be sending troops to help Russia with the invasion.
 

Karen-W

Well-Known Member
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17,587
But what is Biden supposed to do? What is the US supposed to do? The US just can't go into Ukraine. Europe needs to lead the charge against Putin. The US is doing the best it can with sanctions.

ETA Judging by Trump's remarks about Putin, I think the US would be doing nothing if Trump were president.
Trump's remarks are as irrelevant as HRC's, in my opinion. They only serve to create more useless noise and distract from Biden's missteps.

First and foremost, Biden needs to tell the Green New Dealers that now is not the the time for their agenda and get the US back to energy independence, and able to help Europe out. I can't really blame the European nations that rely on Russian energy for being hesitant in how to approach this crisis.
 

Spikefan

At the Hubbell Salon
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2,482
But, really, let's keep harping on what Trump or Obama or Bush 2 or Clinton did or didn't do that helped lead to the rise of Putin, and not focus at all on anything the guy who is currently in charge is doing.
I agree that at this time we need to focus on what is being done now, which means who is in charge currently. There is no time to spare.
 

Hedwig

WoolSilk Fanatic
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20,285
Yes please no US politics in here. There is too much to stomach for all of us so please dont add to it with internal US centric fights. There are enough threads for it and we are all here with nerves as raw as anything.

I cried so many tears today I cannot even close my eyes because they are so swollen.
 

BlueRidge

AYS's snark-sponge
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60,450
Trump's remarks are as irrelevant as HRC's, in my opinion. They only serve to create more useless noise and distract from Biden's missteps.

First and foremost, Biden needs to tell the Green New Dealers that now is not the the time for their agenda and get the US back to energy independence, and able to help Europe out. I can't really blame the European nations that rely on Russian energy for being hesitant in how to approach this crisis.
Now is the time for renewable energy. If Europe had moved faster away from fossil fuels so easily provided by Russia it wouldn't have been forking over so much cash to Putin nor been so unwilling to break from him.

Energy independence is what the Green New Deal is about. We need to pass it now and put people like Putin who depend on selling fossil fuels out of business.
 

Hedwig

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20,285
I spoke to many people today. We think as well that now is time for the combined push away from gas and oil.

And if it will be cold now, we are all ready to wear two extra layers instead of using Russian gas.

Most people in Germany are more than willing to sanction Russia even at personal costs.
 

rfisher

Let the skating begin
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70,484
However some of them will be arrested and tortured and you can't know if you'll be one of them.
And if arrested, can be prevented from getting a job in the future. Protestors in Russia do so at personal risk and have my utmost respect. Ukrainian civilians are taking up small arms to defend their country. Paying a little more for gas in the comfort of western Europe or the US is not even comparable to people willing to risk themselves.
 
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skatingguy

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11,918
Again, a lot of you Trump-haters are selectively ignoring the fact that Obama did less when Putin invaded Crimea in 2014 than Biden is now being forced to do because Putin's gone off the deep end. 🙄
I was just providing the arguments to dispel the notion that some are putting forward on social media, and that you mentioned, that this wouldn't be happening if Trump was President.
I explained where I think Biden has made some critical missteps in trying to clean up the mess of his predecessorS. Not just Trump but Obama, Bush 2, etc. And all any of you can seem to do is stay stuck in "well, but Trump..." Strangely enough, Trump isn't in charge any more, so maybe focus on what Biden is doing (or not doing), mmmkay?
The problem here is trying to make this about the US President, whoever holds the office. The reason that the Putin regime has been emboldened is, and has been, the feckless response of Europe. US Presidents have a limited number of responses, and the tougher responses require agreement from European leaders, and countries like Germany, Italy, and Hungary have been hesitant because of the costs that would come to their own people. There is no doubt that previous US administrations could have done more, but the bulk of the response needs to come from Europe, and there is no consensus to be found so far.
 

Gil-Galad

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Messages
1,261
I spoke to many people today. We think as well that now is time for the combined push away from gas and oil.

And if it will be cold now, we are all ready to wear two extra layers instead of using Russian gas.

Most people in Germany are more than willing to sanction Russia even at personal costs.
I don't get why the politicians hesitate that much. Unless it's more about the industries and production. But it can't be about the heating, it's not like this has been a real winter anyway in Germany.
 

Taso

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7,314
Trump's remarks are as irrelevant as HRC's, in my opinion. They only serve to create more useless noise and distract from Biden's missteps.

First and foremost, Biden needs to tell the Green New Dealers that now is not the the time for their agenda and get the US back to energy independence, and able to help Europe out. I can't really blame the European nations that rely on Russian energy for being hesitant in how to approach this crisis.
Still just shifts the problem until the next huge fallout somewhere politically. Many of us who might live past 2050 don't think this Green New Deal is BS.
 

Hedwig

WoolSilk Fanatic
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20,285
I don't get why the politicians hesitate that much. Unless it's more about the industries and production. But it can't be about the heating, it's not like this has been a real winter anyway in Germany.
Yes it is about big industry who is dependent an gas.
So what?
Help them to switch to othet energy forces. Pay them for their downside and be done with it. This will be felt economically but so what?
 

Asli

Well-Known Member
Messages
12,638
I spoke to many people today. We think as well that now is time for the combined push away from gas and oil.

And if it will be cold now, we are all ready to wear two extra layers instead of using Russian gas.

Most people in Germany are more than willing to sanction Russia even at personal costs.
I think that if the heating goes off you will find that it is very cold, Hedwig. My bones still ache at the thought of the second oil crisis in 1979.
 

Hedwig

WoolSilk Fanatic
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20,285
I think that if the heating goes off you will find that it is very cold, Hedwig. My bones still ache at the thought of the second oil crisis in 1979.
I dont think it will be fun. But certainly better than the alternative
 

Asli

Well-Known Member
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12,638
What happened to the embargo on technological exports to Russia that the US was considering? That, together with sanctions on Russian state banks would make quite an impact IMO.
 
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Spikefan

At the Hubbell Salon
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2,482
I keep hearing former military heads stating we need to get air missile defense to Ukraine immediately. Is that something Congress has to approve?
 

skatingguy

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11,918
I keep hearing former military heads stating we need to get air missile defense to Ukraine immediately. Is that something Congress has to approve?
It seems like it's too late for that considering Russian troops have already advanced to the capitol.
 

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