Nevada Primary Democratic Debate: What Happens in Vegas Gets Hysterical on Twitter

Dragonlady

Sew Happy
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10,385
missed part of the statement sorry, but Bernie is an old white man so its not just about old white men here.

The super delegates regardless of whether they are old white men or not, are going to be the worst optic the Democratic Party could have.

If only the elected delegates voted on second and subsequent ballots, then it could be a democratic process. With the super delegates it is not and voters are going to feel over-ruled.

I am dreading how this will all turn out if no one wins the delegate majority before the convention.
Bernie agreed to a brokered convention prior to the primary season starting. He favoured a brokered convention when Hillary had more delegates than he did. Now he's leading the polls (but not the delegates), he's opposed to it. You can't suck and blow at the same time.

Hypothetical: If three candidates are centrists who split the votes, and only one who defines themself as socialist, who has 1/3 of the delegates, then the centrists really do have the majority of the party - 67%, and the candidate should come from that group. Just because 1/3 of the party want far left, doesn't give them the majority. Shouldn't the majority centrists be able to broker a deal and stop the minority candidate, to pick a candidate which reflects the wishes of the majority?
 

snoopy

Well-Known Member
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11,877
How is anyone voting for steyer? He has like 8% in Nevada entrance polling with Hispanics and African Americans. Otherwise good news for Bernie not so much for warren in same demographics.
 

skatingguy

Golden Team
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6,801
Bernie agreed to a brokered convention prior to the primary season starting. He favoured a brokered convention when Hillary had more delegates than he did. Now he's leading the polls (but not the delegates), he's opposed to it. You can't suck and blow at the same time.

Hypothetical: If three candidates are centrists who split the votes, and only one who defines themself as socialist, who has 1/3 of the delegates, then the centrists really do have the majority of the party - 67%, and the candidate should come from that group. Just because 1/3 of the party want far left, doesn't give them the majority. Shouldn't the majority centrists be able to broker a deal and stop the minority candidate, to pick a candidate which reflects the wishes of the majority?
I think, as Canadians, we're more accustomed to seeing this type of convention than Americans, and therefore, are more comfortable with the idea that the nominee or leader is not chosen until after the convention starts. American political conventions have for decades been a week long advertising campaign for the nominee rather than a process of selecting said nominee.
 

BlueRidge

AYS's snark-sponge
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55,580
How is anyone voting for steyer? He has like 8% in Nevada entrance polling with Hispanics and African Americans. Otherwise good news for Bernie not so much for warren in same demographics.
:bribe:

he's doing even better according to polls in SC and poised to take enough votes there from Biden to allow Sanders to win.

I mean, its hard to figure exactly what his strategy is. I'd be interested to know.
 

Vagabond

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14,977
I'll find some articles for you, but I am going by involvement with the state party, previous meetings/conferences with the DNC.
In other words, you have no facts at hand to support your assertion.

Here, for comparison's sake, is the Pew Research Center's breakdown of the 2016 superdelegates by sex and race. Fifty-eight percent were men, forty-two percent were women. Sixty-two percent were white, thirty-eight percent non-white or "unknown."

Assuming that the division between men and women was roughly the same for whites as for non-whites, a clear majority of the superdelegates were not white men, let alone "old white men."

I would expect that the percentage of "old white men" among the superdelegates is lower this year than in 2016 because both the number and the percentage of Senators and Representatives who are Democratic women has increased since then.

If you have any hard facts to show that the makeup of this year's superdelegates is markedly different, please share them. Otherwise, I will continue to be skeptical of what you post here.
 

Dragonlady

Sew Happy
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10,385
I think, as Canadians, we're more accustomed to seeing this type of convention than Americans, and therefore, are more comfortable with the idea that the nominee or leader is not chosen until after the convention starts. American political conventions have for decades been a week long advertising campaign for the nominee rather than a process of selecting said nominee.

I hadn't thought of that. My thought was one of disappointment that there wasn't going to be a real convention.

I thought it ridiculous that Trump, with 15% of primary votes was winning ALL of the delegates in the primarys in 2016. 85% of the voters didn't vote for him. 85% of the voters voted for someone else. It's anti-democratic. Giving someone who wins 15% of the vote, all of the delegates wipes votes of the 85% majority who didn't vote for him.
 

BlueRidge

AYS's snark-sponge
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55,580
Even apart from the bogey word socialism, a lot of people, probably even some who get swept along and vote for Sanders in the primaries, are going to pause at descriptions like this:

Sanders’s agenda would, if implemented, involve a vast increase in the centralization of power in Washington.

His Medicare-for-all proposal would effectively nationalize most of the health-care system that is not already under government control...There are other important pieces to the Sanders agenda, including “free” college at state schools, guaranteed jobs for able-bodied adults and a pledge that teachers should earn at least $60,000 a year. These proposals, if adopted, would also centralize power in Washington. They, too, would raise government spending.

How do voters react to all this centralized power?
This was Robert Samuelson writing in the Washington Post.

There's always been a strong suspicion of big government in the US and faced with descriptions of massive centralization in Washington, are people really going to flock to Bernie? Is his being against the establishment going to work for people or are they just going to see him as a big government agent who wants to put more control in Washington?

I think its pretty risky to think people will see him as someone bringing power to the people when his agenda not entirely unfairly can be described this way.
 

mrinalini

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1,410
The thing with Sanders is that nothing sticks to him (like Trump), so you can affix any labels you'd like to him and bemoan the ill-effects of socialism all you want and it won't get you anywhere. His base of support remains unshakeable, and as long as he's able to grow it (however small) it'll be enough to win him the nomination.

Earlier, I advocated that the other candidates should start targeting him but now I'm not sure that would do any good; if anything, it will only serve to strengthen his support. Even Bloomberg with all his money and ads can do nothing about it at this point, IMO.
 

VGThuy

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31,219
I think there will come a point where the tone needs to shift from we need to prevent Bernie from being the nominee and listing all the reasons he shouldn’t be to it may look like he is so let’s adapt and find a way to beat Trump with him as the nominee.
 

mrinalini

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1,410
They might as well get to it because that point has already been reached.

Speaking selfishly as a Warren supporter, I sure as hell hope that she doesn't endorse Sanders. After enduring such hateful, demoralizing and misogynistic treatment from his supporters and surrogates, it would be so hard to bear having Warren kowtow to Sanders and do his bidding. May she go back to the Senate, continue doing plentiful good work there, and just stay out of the race and turn down any overtures from Sanders and his ilk.
 

sk9tingfan

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2,959
I think there will come a point where the tone needs to shift from we need to prevent Bernie from being the nominee and listing all the reasons he shouldn’t be to it may look like he is so let’s adapt and find a way to beat Trump with him as the nominee.
I'm not going to believe that Bernie is the ultimate nominee until after Super Tuesday when some of the six candidates that are still running will need to drop out. I also believe that this will be a brokered convention. I'm concerned that no one is pointing out to his followers that Bernie cannot deliver the vision that he has promised without the explicit support of the Senate. If nominated, we can say goodbye to the Senate, stopping Mitch McConnell and rebalancing the Supreme Court. We are also in danger of losing the house. Goodbye, democracy.....
 

VGThuy

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31,219
I don’t see that happening. There’s obviously room for her in the admin and she will have a role to play in making the platform. This is about the cause and Warren has openly said she’ll support whoever the nominee is. I think people’s feelings from interacting with trolls on social media is making forget what the endgame is and for Sanders and Warren, it wasn’t just beating Trump but going after the people who need to pay their fair share and restricting this country to work better for all people.
 

VGThuy

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31,219
I'm not going to believe that Bernie is the ultimate nominee until after Super Tuesday when some of the six candidates that are still running will need to drop out. I also believe that this will be a brokered convention. I'm concerned that no one is pointing out to his followers that Bernie cannot deliver the vision that he has promised without the explicit support of the Senate. If nominated, we can say goodbye to the Senate, stopping Mitch McConnell and rebalancing the Supreme Court. We are also in danger of losing the house. Goodbye, democracy.....
It’s funny how when I go to FSU, its so doom and gloom and depression about Sanders but when I enter other Dem communities and talk to my friends, the tone is vastly different about Bernie and his chances. The tone is so negative regarding Bernie here that we might as well rename the 2020 Dem Race thread to “Dangers of a Bernie nomination” thread since that’s all some people want to harp on it seems.
 

mrinalini

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Well, duh. Of course, she's not going to do that because she's a better person than I am; that's why I said I was speaking selfishly for myself. And it is not just online trolls who display such revolting and divisive behaviour, but then I bet you don't see that.

She can still do some work to help him get elected but she doesn't have to outright endorse him, and that is the path I hope she chooses.
 

alchemy void

make dance classy again
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22,857
She can still do some work to help him get elected but she doesn't have to outright endorse him, and that is the path I hope she chooses.
Seriously? Dems are going to need EVERY single endorsement to pull this out. And particularly because she's predicted to play a prominent role in a hypothetical Sanders administration, I don't see Warren even hesitating to endorse.

The tone is so negative regarding Bernie here that we might as well rename the 2020 Dem Race thread to “Dangers of a Bernie nomination” thread since that’s all some people want to harp on it seems.
:rofl:

I see a lot of negativity on Twitter regarding Bernie (and lots of rampant support, too). It's such a polarized environment. Seriously, bring on the general. This primary is exhausting, and it's not yet March. :drama:
 

sk9tingfan

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2,959
It’s funny how when I go to FSU, its so doom and gloom and depression about Sanders but when I enter other Dem communities and talk to my friends, the tone is vastly different about Bernie and his chances. The tone is so negative regarding Bernie here that we might as well rename the 2020 Dem Race thread to “Dangers of a Bernie nomination” thread since that’s all some people want to harp on it seems.
If Bernie is nominated, you can say goodbye to support from moderate Democrats and Republicans who are looking for an alternative to Trump. It is a matter of his policies that are impractical from a cost as well as implementation basis. My opinion is based on my graduate work in both Public Administration/Policy and Business Administration as well as 45 years in healthcare including work inside the ACA, implementing nationwide programs in care management/insurance, developing predictive models and analyzing program approaches using all types of health care and drug data. IMO, his Medicare for all proposal is highly questionable, and his approach that all resources are unlimited is ridiculous.
 

mrinalini

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Seriously? Dems are going to need EVERY single endorsement to pull this out. And particularly because she's predicted to play a prominent role in a hypothetical Sanders administration, I don't see Warren even hesitating to endorse.
Of course she will. I just selfishly hope she doesn't, but she's never listened to me before so why should she start now? :p

It is just so hard to accept Sanders telling Warren that a woman could never beat Trump (and yes, I believe her), and then she has to eventually go, yeah, I guess you were right, Bernie; now, what is it you need me to do for you?

The M.C.P. always wins, as usual!
 

Wyliefan

Trying to appease the skategods
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28,536
It’s funny how when I go to FSU, its so doom and gloom and depression about Sanders but when I enter other Dem communities and talk to my friends, the tone is vastly different about Bernie and his chances. The tone is so negative regarding Bernie here that we might as well rename the 2020 Dem Race thread to “Dangers of a Bernie nomination” thread since that’s all some people want to harp on it seems.
You should try going to other places. I'm seeing utter panic among both liberals and conservative Never Trumpers about the Democrats lining up to hand this country back to Trump via a Sanders nomination.
 

snoopy

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11,877
Well it would be kind of fun in a train wreck kind of way to see the Bernie bro’s go against the trumpists.
 

VGThuy

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You should try going to other places. I'm seeing utter panic among both liberals and conservative Never Trumpers about the Democrats lining up to hand this country back to Trump via a Sanders nomination.
I don’t actively find places, it’s just with my work and meeting people doing various work across different fields/communities who are also Dems From different parts of the country. They are much more optimistic. I avoid social media to ascertain an accurate measure of the electorate’s opinions. And you know we are all smart people and we have our own perspectives, but I haven’t see anyone show they know for sure what will happen if he becomes the nominee. Some of it doesn’t seem to logically follow to me.
 

mrinalini

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You should try going to other places. I'm seeing utter panic among both liberals and conservative Never Trumpers about the Democrats lining up to hand this country back to Trump via a Sanders nomination.
This. I don't know which places she's hanging out in, but in other, rather liberal forums I lurk in, the prevailing sentiment is that Sanders is an absolute disaster who will guarantee a wipeout win for Trump.
 

VGThuy

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31,219
If Bernie is nominated, you can say goodbye to support from moderate Democrats and Republicans who are looking for an alternative to Trump. It is a matter of his policies that are impractical from a cost as well as implementation basis. My opinion is based on my graduate work in both Public Administration/Policy and Business Administration as well as 45 years in healthcare including work inside the ACA, implementing nationwide programs in care management/insurance, developing predictive models and analyzing program approaches using all types of health care and drug data. IMO, his Medicare for all proposal is highly questionable, and his approach that all resources are unlimited is ridiculous.
I need to see actual hard data to give this prediction any serious consideration. If you want to have a policy debate about Medicare for all, then that’s valid, but all the experience working in the healthcare field cannot show me that people will not vote for Bernie. Obviously, millions of people are voting for Bernie now and he’s consistently placing in the top two of the primaries/caucuses so far, something no other candidate can say. Dems need to be working from that than yelling and screaming what a mistake they’re making.
 

VGThuy

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This. I don't know which places she's hanging out in, but in other, rather liberal forums I lurk in, the prevailing sentiment is that Sanders is an absolute disaster who will guarantee a wipeout win for Trump.
How about you address me directly. I’m talking to real people who are working on campaigns and others who just work in various legal fields and volunteer. I’m talking to other lawyers, some academics, some working class people I know from blue, purple, and red states. I’m not obsessively going on twitter and fighting with trolls.
 

mrinalini

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How about you address me directly. I’m talking to real people who are working on campaigns and others who just work in various legal fields and volunteer. I’m talking to other lawyers, some academics, some working class people I know from blue, purple, and red states. I’m not obsessively going on twitter and fighting with trolls.
I'll do what I like which includes addressing you directly as I see fit. If that is unacceptable to you, you know what you can do.

And although I do spend time on Twitter, I can honestly say that I have never in my life posted anything on there.
 

VGThuy

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31,219
I'll do what I like which includes addressing you directly as I see fit. If that is unacceptable to you, you know what you can do.

And although I do spend time on Twitter, I can honestly say that I have never in my life posted anything on there.
For someone who talks about disrespect Warren has received, you sure are good at expressing that as well.
 

mrinalini

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For someone who talks about disrespect Warren has received, you sure are good at expressing that as well.
That was not my intention, but you'll read into it what you will. You insinuated that you've a wealth of real world experience unlike me who is just busy trolling around on Twitter. The other forums I mentioned earlier do not include Twitter.

Enough - I'm done having this petty back and forth with you. As I said, you know what to do if what I say (or don't say) is tantamount to disrespecting you.
 

VGThuy

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31,219
That was not my intention, but you'll read into it what you will. You insinuated that you've a wealth of real world experience unlike me who is just busy trolling around on Twitter. The other forums I mentioned earlier do not include Twitter.

Enough - I'm done having this petty back and forth with you. As I said, you know what to do if what I say (or don't say) is tantamount to disrespecting you.
Speaking about insinuations. I just said it’s funny how out of all the communities I’m a part of, FSU is the only one so negative towards Bernie. That’s it. I was talking about my own experience, not saying I had a lot of it. I do find it disrespectful when a conversation is happening and talk about a person in third person when as if they weren’t in the conversation or refuse to address them. And I was in the conversation since the post you quoted and directly replied to was a post where Wyliefan quoted me and addressed me directly.
 

sk9tingfan

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I need to see actual hard data to give this prediction any serious consideration. If you want to have a policy debate about Medicare for all, then that’s valid, but all the experience working in the healthcare field cannot show me that people will not vote for Bernie. Obviously, millions of people are voting for Bernie now and he’s consistently placing in the top two of the primaries/caucuses so far, something no other candidate can say. Dems need to be working from that than yelling and screaming what a mistake they’re making.
 

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