Nancy Pelosi Announces Impeachment Inquiry

demetriosj

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,494
Trump wants to write down his answers as his testimony to defend himself.

We know how that worked out in the Muller investigation. Now the Dems are reviewing his answers to see if he lied (under oath) in his written answers.

Wait! Did Trump lie? Does the Sun rise in the East?
What crimes do you think President Trump is guilty of?
 

skateboy

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,626
In America, aren't you considered innocent until proven guilty?
Not really. Well, only on paper.

In America, the accused are often put in jail for many months while awaiting trial. The media reports on the alleged crimes of the the accused, which certainly colors public opinion... fairly or unfairly. I think we all know this.

The accused is expected to defend his/herself, either personally or through a lawyer. This is nothing new.
 

mag

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,114
So anyone who is not a white male will not be treated unfairly in a court of law? That's preposterous.
No, but the chances of being treated unfairly increase quite a bit if you are not white and male. There are many studies that support this.


“...Despite substantial evidence that minorities are overrepresented in the drug arrestee population, they remain a relatively large share of prison commitments and a relatively small share of criminal justice referrals to treatment. Hispanics and Blacks contributed to roughly 60% of prison admissions2 in 2006 compared with only 35% of drug and alcohol treatment admissions.7 Disparities in criminal justice referrals to drug treatment potentially affect access to treatment of hundreds of thousands of individuals arrested for drug offenses each year. If racial/ethnic disparities exist in incarceration and diversion rates, then these disparities are likely to reinforce current imbalances in the criminal justice system and impose substantial economic costs on minorities, such as the loss of future employment opportunities and poor health outcomes.8...”


“...Many scholars and activists assume the public would be motivated to fight inequality if only they knew the full extent of existing disparities. Ironically, exposure to extreme disparities can cause people to become more, not less, supportive of the very policies that create those disparities (Hetey & Eberhardt, 2014). Here, we focus on the criminal justice system—policing and incarceration in particular. We argue that bringing to mind racial disparities in this domain can trigger fear and stereotypic associations linking Blacks with crime. Therefore, rather than extending an invitation to reexamine the criminal justice system, the statistics about disparities may instead provide an opportunity to justify and rationalize the disparities found within that system...”




“...The author of the acclaimed Chokehold: Policing Black Men writes on how the system treats African Americans with contempt: ‘If police patrolled white areas as they do poor black neighborhoods, there would be a revolution’...”
 

missing

Well-Known To Whom She Wonders
Messages
2,616
I don't think there's been a moment in American history where at least 30% of the population hasn't been just awful, and that percentage is on the kindly side. It's way higher than that when you include American history of racism.

You don't need Fox News or Rush Limbaugh. They weren't around during the anti-German American sentiment during World War One. Look at how popular Father Coughlin was. Think about how accepted by everyone, including Earl Warren, imprisoning Japanese Americans was during World War Two. Consider red baiting during the 1920s and McCarthyism in the 1940s and '50s, or the danger and illegality of being a homosexual.

The Trump worshipers have always been part of life in America. At their worst, they're KKK. At their best, they're Archie Bunker. At their most cynical, they're the powers that be of the Republican party.
 

demetriosj

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,494
The Trump worshipers have always been part of life in America. At their worst, they're KKK. At their best, they're Archie Bunker. At their most cynical, they're the powers that be of the Republican party.
You've just insulted a wide spectrum of American citizens that are none of those things.
 

canbelto

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,337
I don't think there's been a moment in American history where at least 30% of the population hasn't been just awful, and that percentage is on the kindly side. It's way higher than that when you include American history of racism.

You don't need Fox News or Rush Limbaugh. They weren't around during the anti-German American sentiment during World War One. Look at how popular Father Coughlin was. Think about how accepted by everyone, including Earl Warren, imprisoning Japanese Americans was during World War Two. Consider red baiting during the 1920s and McCarthyism in the 1940s and '50s, or the danger and illegality of being a homosexual.

The Trump worshipers have always been part of life in America. At their worst, they're KKK. At their best, they're Archie Bunker. At their most cynical, they're the powers that be of the Republican party.
Great post. Before Trump, there were people like George Wallace, Strom Thurmond and Jesse Helms. Remember that only in 1967 was interracial marriage finally legal in the U.S.

What I do think is the difference with Trump is that people like George Wallace et al. never made it to the presidency. Now you have the leader of the country openly saying racist things. So the 30% that privately were always unabashedly racist and sexist are now all out of the woodwork, flapping their jaws on twitter and reddit.
 

snoopy

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,536
I don’t think all trump supporters are racists. Tribalists yes but I already said that I don’t think tribalism equals racism. For example, there have been several posts from people here noting their Hispanic or Vietnamese relatives vote for trump or vote for republicans because socialism.
 

mag

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,114
I don’t think all trump supporters are racists. Tribalists yes but I already said that I don’t think tribalism equals racism. For example, there have been several posts from people here noting their Hispanic or Vietnamese relatives vote for trump or vote for republicans because socialism.
I think anyone who votes Republican in 2020 is okay with supporting racism and racist policies, and is okay with not caring about people they don’t know. They are also okay with a President who lies regularly and employs some people who are willing to lie on his behalf and some people who are white nationalists.

If you are not okay with these things you should not be voting Republican. I know, “the economy!” Well if you look at history, you have a better chance of having a Democratic President build a stronger economy. Republicans generally inherit a strong economy, bring in sweeping tax cuts for the rich, and leave the economy in a worse state than they got it. Wash, rinse, repeat.

At the end of the day, if you truly believe that all people were created equal and that we should care for people, even those we don’t know know, the Republican Party is not your party. Vote Republican, and people are going to make assumptions based on that.
 

skatingguy

Golden Team
Messages
6,036
In America, aren't you considered innocent until proven guilty?
This a political process, not a criminal one, so those standards really don't apply, but if we want to make a comparison to the criminal justice system than the hearings in the House are the Grand Jury stage where the rights of the accused are extremely limited.
 

MacMadame

Cat Lady-in-Training
Messages
30,247
I love all these comments about how unfair the process is and how Trump hasn't done anything to warrant impeachment because I watched the Clinton impeachment trial and impeaching the President for lying about having an affair using basically the same process we're using now has to be the height of unfair, partisan politics. Yet the GOP was okay with it then but up-in-arms now when we're investigating possible bribery and other illegal actions which Trump has already admitted to. Yeah, you guys really care about fairness. :rolleyes:
 

canbelto

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,337
I think anyone who votes Republican in 2020 is okay with supporting racism and racist policies, and is okay with not caring about people they don’t know. They are also okay with a President who lies regularly and employs some people who are willing to lie on his behalf and some people who are white nationalists.

If you are not okay with these things you should not be voting Republican. I know, “the economy!” Well if you look at history, you have a better chance of having a Democratic President build a stronger economy. Republicans generally inherit a strong economy, bring in sweeping tax cuts for the rich, and leave the economy in a worse state than they got it. Wash, rinse, repeat.

At the end of the day, if you truly believe that all people were created equal and that we should care for people, even those we don’t know know, the Republican Party is not your party. Vote Republican, and people are going to make assumptions based on that.
I also think this is no longer a conservative/liberal issue. My mom is personally as conservative as one gets. She's scandalized by R-rated movies and tried to convince me that my string bikini was not appropriate and bought a non-string bikini for me to prove the point. But she believes in the rights of women to control their bodies, she thinks gay marriage is "fine, it's not like the world is going to end."

It's really about respecting the people you don't know and who might have very different life experiences than you. The lack of respect Trump shows people is no longer an opinion. It's a fact. If you think it's okay to be so disrespectful on that level towards fellow humans then I really don't know what to say.
 

mag

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,114
If you think it's okay to be so disrespectful on that level towards fellow humans then I really don't know what to say.
This x 1000. If any Trump supporters can explain to me why this is okay, I am willing to listen because I just do not understand.
 

caseyedwards

Well-Known Member
Messages
13,172
I love all these comments about how unfair the process is and how Trump hasn't done anything to warrant impeachment because I watched the Clinton impeachment trial and impeaching the President for lying about having an affair using basically the same process we're using now has to be the height of unfair, partisan politics. Yet the GOP was okay with it then but up-in-arms now when we're investigating possible bribery and other illegal actions which Trump has already admitted to. Yeah, you guys really care about fairness. :rolleyes:
Big difference though! David Kendall, clintons lawyer ,was at the impeachment inquiry hearings! Asking starr questions. Trumps been banned from having his lawyer be in hearings. It’s not the same. This being so much more serious it should have been so much more fair! But then I guess Gingrich and Hyde used the Albert rodino model for Nixon because the charges were so flimsy! That they treated Clinton’s impeachment exactly like Nixon’s to make it more serious. But now with all trump lawyers being banned from asking any witnesses anything it’s so much worse a process.
 

Sparks

Well-Known Member
Messages
10,162
The Republicans on the committee (who overwhelmingly defend Trump) have their own counsel. It is fair according to established rules.
 
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mag

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,114
Weren’t the current rules / process put in place by Republicans in 2015? I wonder if they were assuming Clinton would be the president and wanted to make sure they could start impeachment right away. Given that they have been pretty consistent about projecting their misdeeds onto Democrats, the charges of reversing the 2016 election is starting to make sense.
 

once_upon

New condo owner
Messages
12,600
I'm trying to be open to Nunes statements, but his current statements are all on Russia investigation and media. And the relationship of whistleblower and disappeared after starting this sham.
 

Vash01

Fan of Yuzuru, Three A's, T&M, P&C
Messages
48,395
Nunes is such a scumbag. He started his opening statement with- the three diplomats disliked Trump, and gave their testimonies based on second and third hand information. I turned off the TV at that point. This guy insults career professionals who have served the country for decades, by suggesting that they were biased, and they knew nothing. Shame on him.
 

BlueRidge

AYS's snark-sponge
Messages
53,900
I read Nunes and Republicans were going to attack the witnesses for not being loyal to Trump.

Career civil servants aren't supposed to be loyal to Trump. They are supposed to be loyal to the country.

Being loyal to the country and to the current president should not be in conflict but it is because the president is betraying the country by using foreign policy for his personal interests.
 

BlueRidge

AYS's snark-sponge
Messages
53,900
And sounds like Nunes questioning is not about the content of the witnesses' testimony but about other things like whether they leaked anything. Um yeah, I'm sure Nunes considers testifying under subpoena to be leaking... just like Sen. Ron Johnson considers that the whistle blower's actions in filing a complaint through the channels set up to legally do so was "leaking."
 

rfisher

Let the skating begin
Messages
60,420
They have to act like they're doing something and that's all they have in the face of the evidence.
 

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