Nancy Pelosi Announces Impeachment Inquiry

snoopy

Well-Known Member
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The great Republican advantage is an issues based voting bloc, that is why Trump’s behavior is ignored. Immigration, guns, religion, taxes, capitalism. Maybe only 20% are nativists but the bloc is such that the taxes people will throw in with the nativists to get their tax cuts.
 

overedge

Mayor of Carrot City
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26,333
Ha, no explanation needed, it’s all in the video. ;) It’s just that many of you and the bias media tend to twist some situations to reflect a certain narrative.
:rofl: GMAFB. You are the one twisting information to fit your own "certain narrative". As a great musician once said, before you accuse me, take a look at yourself.
 

BittyBug

And the band played on
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21,840
Or the other alternative, which is that they manage to take authoritarian control and render elections just for show and retain power as the nativist/nationalist/racist Trump party. I don't think that could really work though because they would be a 20-25% of the population and a lot of the corporate forces would not support them.
Erm, corporate forces seem only to happy to throw in their lot with Trump in exchange for their tax cuts.

You also need to look at voter suppression and voter neutering through gerrymandering. With SCOTUS having gutted the voting rights acts, many traditionally red states have been emboldened to implement impediments to voter access.
 

BlueRidge

AYS's snark-sponge
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Erm, corporate forces seem only to happy to throw in their lot with Trump in exchange for their tax cuts.

You also need to look at voter suppression and voter neutering through gerrymandering. With SCOTUS having gutted the voting rights acts, many traditionally red states have been emboldened to implement impediments to voter access.
Tech companies aren't happy with Trump. The Chamber of Commerce opposes him on limiting immigration and trade. There are lot of ways in which an authoritarian Trump regime wouldn't be favored by portions of the corporate world.

They aren't going to start supporting Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren, but looking for a way out of an extremist Republican Party that is anti-globalist is a real possibility for a lot of corporate forces.
 

Reuven

Official FSU Alte Kacher
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15,448
So you think asking someone to do something is the same as saying someone should do something? What do you make of the YouTube clip at the 2:55 mark when Trump basically said he didn’t ask China to investigate the Bidens?
Michael Cohen told us Trump doesn't directly ask, much like a mob don. Went looking for that coverage, and AP has the story here. Some quotes:
Trump declared Thursday at the White House, “China should start an investigation into the Bidens.” He said he hadn’t previously asked Chinese President Xi Jinping to investigate the former vice president and his son Hunter, but it’s “certainly something we could start thinking about.”
OK, so he didn't actually ask, but a little later in that same interview:
“I have a lot of options on China, but if they don’t do what we want, we have tremendous, tremendous power,” Trump said.
See what he did there? It's kinda like a mobbed up insurance guy who tries to sell you life insurance, then talks about other things, then on the way out the door, takes a look at your house and says, "Nice place, shame if something happened to it."
 

PRlady

Nerdy flack
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Erm, corporate forces seem only to happy to throw in their lot with Trump in exchange for their tax cuts.

You also need to look at voter suppression and voter neutering through gerrymandering. With SCOTUS having gutted the voting rights acts, many traditionally red states have been emboldened to implement impediments to voter access.
Exactly. Without voter suppression and with 2018-type instead of 2016-type turnout in key states, the Dems win this one in a walk no matter who the candidate is. And the ACLU has been winning lots of court battles, some at the local level like North Carolina and some nationally, but what we really need is a strong protection law that applies nationally. Like a Voting Rights Act, for example. :wall:
 

ballettmaus

Well-Known Member
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12,510
Tech companies aren't happy with Trump. The Chamber of Commerce opposes him on limiting immigration and trade. There are lot of ways in which an authoritarian Trump regime wouldn't be favored by portions of the corporate world.
That only matters if they did something about it. The corporate world of the 30s isn't comparable to today and I don't know how much corporate support the Nazis had. But I know that they weren't supported by a German majority. They were simply ignored because the majority of Germans either ignored or was unaware of the danger they posed. They weren't affected, so they continued to live their life the way they had.

Republicans/Trump don't need broad support. They just need enough people who don't care enough to do anything and for things to continue the way that they are now. (And when things get really bad, they need military and law enforcement support).
 

BlueRidge

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I disagree that corporations are uniformly going to just go along with Trump. His isolationist pro-authoritarian policies don't benefit a lot sectors. And there's more to what corporations want than tax cuts.
 

Simone411

Well bleffing Covfefe! Clippy's flipping over P/C!
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15,857
Well, good for you, Mr. Biden! He speaks up!

For 1st Time, Joe Biden Call For Trump to Be Impeached

ROCHESTER, N.H. — Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden said Wednesday for the first time that President Donald Trump must be impeached for abusing the powers of his office to help his own reelection.

Biden made the remarks as part a blistering 25-minute campaign speech in New Hampshire.

Biden said Trump is "shooting holes in the Constitution" by asking foreign powers to interfere in the 2020 election and then refusing to cooperate with a resulting House impeachment inquiry.

"This is a president who has decided this nation doesn't have the tools, the power, the political will" to punish bad behavior, Biden said. "He's not just testing us. He's laughing at us."
"We're not going to let Donald Trump pick the Democratic nominee for president," Biden said. "I'm not going to let him get away with it. He's picked a fight with the wrong guy."
 

PRlady

Nerdy flack
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Well, they don't want tariffs, generally. And they do want more free-trade agreements like NAFTA etc, without of course the environmental/labor protection built in that Warren and Sanders want. Some want a lot of legal/illegal immigration to depress wages at the low level. Some want us leaning on the Chinese on things like intellectual property rights, not witch-hunting the Bidens.

But in general I think they mostly hold their collective nose and go with the Republican, especially with a rejuvenated progressive wing of the Dems actually trying to help unions, raise the minimum wage, etc.
 

BlueRidge

AYS's snark-sponge
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Well, they don't want tariffs, generally. And they do want more free-trade agreements like NAFTA etc, without of course the environmental/labor protection built in that Warren and Sanders want. Some want a lot of legal/illegal immigration to depress wages at the low level. Some want us leaning on the Chinese on things like intellectual property rights, not witch-hunting the Bidens.

But in general I think they mostly hold their collective nose and go with the Republican, especially with a rejuvenated progressive wing of the Dems actually trying to help unions, raise the minimum wage, etc.
I don't think you can generalize. There is actually a culture war opposition to the big tech companies on the far right, see Sen. Hawley from MO. I believe we are talking here not about 2016 but about IF the Republican party follows Trump to full nativist/rightwing nationalist/anti-globalist authoritarianism. I don't think that will be seen as beneficial by all corporate sectors. And the ones who aren't onboard can play a role in a center-right challenge to the Republican Party.
 

PRlady

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I don't think you can generalize. There is actually a culture war opposition to the big tech companies on the far right, see Sen. Hawley from MO. I believe we are talking here not about 2016 but about IF the Republican party follows Trump to full nativist/rightwing nationalist/anti-globalist authoritarianism. I don't think that will be seen as beneficial by all corporate sectors. And the ones who aren't onboard can play a role in a center-right challenge to the Republican Party.
I follow a lot of the NeverTrumpers on Twitter. Now, of course, they're mostly journalists and pundits, not corporate types, but it makes me :lol: when they earnestly tell us Dems whom to nominate so as to make them happy. Everyone from David Brooks to David Frum to Jennifer Rubin to Jonah Goldberg to Tom Nichols want us not to nominate someone too far too the left for them - these people who supported W and his wars to the bitter end. GMAFB.

In other words, I think these people are partially the reason that we have Trump: the Republican party they were selling wasn't what the people wanted, and Trump took advantage of that.
 

BlueRidge

AYS's snark-sponge
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I follow a lot of the NeverTrumpers on Twitter. Now, of course, they're mostly journalists and pundits, not corporate types, but it makes me :lol: when they earnestly tell us Dems whom to nominate so as to make them happy. Everyone from David Brooks to David Frum to Jennifer Rubin to Jonah Goldberg to Tom Nichols want us not to nominate someone too far too the left for them - these people who supported W and his wars to the bitter end. GMAFB.

In other words, I think these people are partially the reason that we have Trump: the Republican party they were selling wasn't what the people wanted, and Trump took advantage of that.
Or maybe they just couldn't compete with Fox News and Rush Limbaugh and the rest of talk radio in working people's emotions.
 

PRlady

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Or maybe they just couldn't compete with Fox News and Rush Limbaugh and the rest of talk radio in working people's emotions.
They took us into no-win wars, tried to build a democracy with 22 year old political operatives running things in Baghdad, crashed the economy and treated Obama like a no-count dumbass for eight solid years. My sympathy for them is limited, if they couldn't compete with Fox news it's because people had just about enough of their program.
 

BlueRidge

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They took us into no-win wars, tried to build a democracy with 22 year old political operatives running things in Baghdad, crashed the economy and treated Obama like a no-count dumbass for eight solid years. My sympathy for them is limited, if they couldn't compete with Fox news it's because people had just about enough of their program.
Well yeah that group, but is that all there is of a potential center-right politics in the US?

Fox News however made a lot of people into Trumpists who might not otherwise have been.
 

PRlady

Nerdy flack
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I have a hard time finding anyone else, really. It's interesting that Goldberg, David French and some others have left National Review to found a new magazine, and I'll be interested to read it, but even I don't think inside-the-Beltway ideas have that much impact on voters, at least not immediately.

The so-called moderate Republicans in Congress, from Collins to Alexander, are either retiring or facing some damn stiff opposition in the upcoming election. Trump's base owns the party at least through the primaries in most places, and conservative suburbs are going blue, maybe pale-baby-blue but still blue, both on social issues and on the unmitigated catastrophe of this president. I think it's more likely we'll see a schism in the Dem party over the next ten years, with the DLC-style moderates joining what's left of the moderate Republicans to float a MOR candidate. Good luck with that.
 

BlueRidge

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I have a hard time finding anyone else, really. It's interesting that Goldberg, David French and some others have left National Review to found a new magazine, and I'll be interested to read it, but even I don't think inside-the-Beltway ideas have that much impact on voters, at least not immediately.

The so-called moderate Republicans in Congress, from Collins to Alexander, are either retiring or facing some damn stiff opposition in the upcoming election. Trump's base owns the party at least through the primaries in most places, and conservative suburbs are going blue, maybe pale-baby-blue but still blue, both on social issues and on the unmitigated catastrophe of this president. I think it's more likely we'll see a schism in the Dem party over the next ten years, with the DLC-style moderates joining what's left of the moderate Republicans to float a MOR candidate. Good luck with that.
You are only looking in the political class.

That's why I think that the corporate world, including Wall Street, is where they will come from. And some are currently supporting Democrats but aren't happy with the Sanders/Warren wing. There are people like Michael Bloomberg and Coffeeman (forgot his name) who would be prominent in a center-right grouping. And corporations that depend on globalization, that have a stake in not denying climate change, that are responsive to consumers who reject rightwing racism. Something could happen there. And I can see ordinary Republican type voters who want lower taxes, just don't want the government to have programs to help people, etc. gravitating to such a grouping.

I also think that there's a lot of room for activism aimed at the corporate sector rather than the political sector. We even saw Walmart buck the gun extremism a bit recently.

Especially if Trump muscles his way into another term, we're going to need a lot of thinking outside the box.
 

BlueRidge

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@BlueRidge do you mean Howard Schultz of Starbucks?
Yes that coffee guy :lol:

My sister told me about it; she was so excited she sent Dick a letter and she got a response back thanking her. And Dick's Sporting Goods is probably not even the most likely to be responsive to center left sentiments but a lot of corporations are wary about their images.
 

caseyedwards

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You should post some of it. We'd all be interested.


Well, that's what they say. But we all know that many in the GOP don't really care about immigration, legal or otherwise, because they need the cheap labor to keep their businesses going.
Of course. These people are the corporate republicans who are demonstrated by the Koch family, McConnell and Ryan! Remember the first thing mcconnell and Ryan did was pass a budget bill banning any kind of Trump wall
ah! I was thinking the one thing that Republicans would have trouble with if they tried to veer away from Trump back to the mainstream is immigration. 20% is obviously not enough to sustain a political party, but losing that 20% would make it pretty hard as well.

I think they have no choice but to try to dump the 20% and try to compete with Democrats for more traditionally centrist and Republican-type voters.
This could easily be called the Reagan party. Reflecting Reagan signed the biggest immigrant amnesty ever and made more immigrants citizens than any democrats ever did
 

Aussie Willy

Hates both vegemite and peanut butter
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I saw a journalist asking a question of a statement that didn’t happen.

That’s the problem here, most media commentators, including Stephanopoulos is not objective.
To be fair, one can argue the Democrats would care less if Andrew Yang is accused of the same thing.
That is your perception and opinion. My perception and opinion is different. So who is right?
 

Aussie Willy

Hates both vegemite and peanut butter
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Ha, no explanation needed, it’s all in the video. ;) It’s just that many of you and the bias media tend to twist some situations to reflect a certain narrative. All Stephanopoulos needed to do was to play the press conference a little longer. Very irresponsible of him not to have done so, and to have repeatedly antagonized his interviewee was so over the top, but admittedly very funny.
You are doing exactly the same thing. Twisting it to suit your own agenda.

I also saw a politician who was having trouble coming up with a cohesive point and fumbling for words. But that is only my perception.
 

CaliSteve

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641
Of course. These people are the corporate republicans who are demonstrated by the Koch family, McConnell and Ryan! Remember the first thing mcconnell and Ryan did was pass a budget bill banning any kind of Trump wall

This could easily be called the Reagan party. Reflecting Reagan signed the biggest immigrant amnesty ever and made more immigrants citizens than any democrats ever did
Those were the days of biparticianship.
 

CaliSteve

Well-Known Member
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641
Ha, no explanation needed, it’s all in the video. ;) It’s just that many of you and the bias media tend to twist some situations to reflect a certain narrative. All Stephanopoulos needed to do was to play the press conference a little longer. Very irresponsible of him not to have done so, and to have repeatedly antagonized his interviewee was so over the top, but admittedly very funny.
GMAFB!

Twist and turn situations to reflect a certain narrative is what Trump and the Republicans do best.

There will come a time (probably years) when you will finally realize that Trump is a disaster and f***** you big time all along for his own gain.
 

missing

Well-Known To Whom She Wonders
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Trump seems to think it's 25% of Americans who support impeachment rather than 25% of Republicans.

That got me thinking about Republicans who are now opposed to impeachment. I think it's possible a substantial percentage of them will move from No to Undecided. Trump's Syria Turkey position doesn't seem to be winning him Republican support but there may well be people who simply won't be able to accept a guilty verdict because of party loyalty. Undecided gives them a way out of that dilemma.

And that got me thinking about Republican senators like Susan Collins. I wonder if a few of them are starting to consult each other about voting Abstain. They can't skip the actual vote ( " My tummy hurts! ") but in a lose/lose situation abstention might be an acceptable option just as long as several of them do it.
 

rfisher

Let the skating begin
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Well, we know math, history, science, grammar, and English were never strong suits while he was in school, in spite of his being a genius. We can throw in civics (which he took at his age,) geography, ethics, and social studies. I guess he was OK at golf.
 

Zemgirl

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Well, we know math, history, science, grammar, and English were never strong suits while he was in school, in spite of his being a genius. We can throw in civics (which he took at his age,) geography, ethics, and social studies. I guess he was OK at golf.
He cheats at golf.
 

once_upon

New condo owner
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I am so sad for the world today. Our Allies now know that America can't be trusted to work with them in fact Trump's actions today show them we don't want to work together, we toss them out.

I am depressed and anxious that we will be under a dictatorship in the next year.

I see Ellen's discussion on how she doesn't need to agree with someone to be kind to them and think she is a much better person than me. I can't be kind to those who defend Trump and his actions.
 

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