Nancy Pelosi Announces Impeachment Inquiry

BittyBug

BittyBug

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It will be interesting to see where this goes, especially since the whistleblower has asked to speak directly with Congress. On the one hand, the IC IG is reputed to be an extremely sober, by the book guy, so the fact that he saw an urgent concern suggests that the issue is quite serious. On the other hand, I can help but conjure up a Spy vs. Spy scenario in which this was all a ploy by Trump to prove for once and for all that the media is nothing but FAKE NEWS and that the Dems are just on the GREATEST WITCH HUNT EVER. So I will hold my breath as this unfolds.
 
skatesindreams

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I pray for wisdom for all involved; that they will be able to proceed as effectively as possible, against their opposition.
 
BlueRidge

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BittyBug said:
It will be interesting to see where this goes, especially since the whistleblower has asked to speak directly with Congress. On the one hand, the IC IG is reputed to be an extremely sober, by the book guy, so the fact that he saw an urgent concern suggests that the issue is quite serious. On the other hand, I can help but conjure up a Spy vs. Spy scenario in which this was all a ploy by Trump to prove for once and for all that the media is nothing but FAKE NEWS and that the Dems are just on the GREATEST WITCH HUNT EVER. So I will hold my breath as this unfolds.
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I would answer that concern with this editorial from the Washington Post:

Congress, don’t fall into this trap

In short, we already know enough. The Post says don't fall into the trap that there is some unknown information that will make this an impeachable affair. It already is. If Trump was trying to trick anyone, he managed to trick himself.

IN THE matter of President Trump pressuring the leader of Ukraine to manufacture dirt on a domestic political opponent of Mr. Trump, Congress is right to press for more information. But this time, in its quest for documents and testimony, it should not minimize what is already known.

...
Congress therefore is right to demand, as an urgent matter, that the whistleblower complaint be shared with its intelligence committees. It is right to demand more information, including transcripts of the leaders’ phone calls; Mr. Trump’s contemporaneous and current explanations for blocking the aid and denying a meeting; and testimony from Trump lawyer Rudolph W. Giuliani and from administration officials about their communications with Ukrainian officials.

But Congress also should not forget what it already knows. Mr. Trump and his cringing Cabinet enablers are scrabbling furiously to obscure that truth by throwing out lies about the Bidens, pretending that the Trump phone call was normal and ethical and, maybe most contemptibly, impugning the patriotism of the whistleblower. Republicans in Congress might ask themselves how they would have responded if President Barack Obama had been caught importuning a foreign leader to concoct dirt on one of them and using the levers of American power to enforce the request. They and their Democratic colleagues should keep in the front of their minds what they already know.
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Sparks

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"Ukrainian president “directly” expressed concerns at meeting w US lawmaker that “the aid that was being cut off to Ukraine by the president was a consequence” of his unwillingness to launch an investigation into the Bidens."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/trump-ordered-hold-on-military-aid-days-before-calling-ukrainian-president-officials-say/2019/09/23/df93a6ca-de38-11e9-8dc8-498eabc129a0_story.html?outputType=amp&__twitter_impression=true&outputType=amp&__twitter_impression=true
 
oleada

oleada

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A transcript is not enough. We know that Trump and co will lie over anything. If there is a transcript, there was a recording, right? We need that too.
 
BlueRidge

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Jennifer Rubin says no select committee, that will take too long and she lays out a succinct process that begins with the House Intelligence Committee and then goes to the House Judiciary Committee. This works for me. We'll see what Nancy says soon.

Any impeachment inquiry should avoid the Mueller investigation traps

The appropriate forum for investigation of the discrete issues, namely Trump’s attempt to gain help from a foreign power and his refusal to allow Congress to investigate, already exists in the House Intelligence Committee.

Acting director of national intelligence Joseph Maguire will appear before the Intelligence Committee on Thursday. In all likelihood, Maguire will refuse to turn over the whistleblower complaint. As soon as he does that, Schiff should have subpoenas at the ready for the whistleblower complaint and for appearance of witnesses such as acting chief of staff Mick Mulvaney.

If Schiff does not receive such information within two weeks, the committee should assemble all information in the public record, including Trump’s and Rudolph W. Giuliani’s latest admissions (e.g., Trump did ask to delay the delivery of aid), confirm the administration has refused as required by law to turn over needed information and refer the matter to the House Judiciary Committee to vote on two articles of impeachment. Sen. Chris Murphy (D-Conn.), who spoke directly with the Ukrainians, can provide a sworn statement substantiating the Ukrainians’ concern that Trump was pressuring them to dig up dirt on former vice president Joe Biden and his son.
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I look forward to the day I disagree again with everything Jennifer Rubin says. ;)

Meanwhile, the biggest trap for Democrats is to believe there is some holy grail out there and they have to get that before taking the final steps. We have the holy grail. Trump used the Office of President of the United States to bully a foreign leader to take actions to try to harm Trump's political rival. Impeach (I really want to start shouting what Rashida said, but I'll refrain :saint: )
 
Zemgirl

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Democrat representatives continue to join the call for impeachment: Donna Shalala, Charlie Crist, Andy Kim, Stephanie Murphy and Ami Bera have all come out in support. Bera still appears as a no in the NYT tracker.

Now if only some Republicans would join in... come on, Will Hurd, you know you want to.
 
ballettmaus

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BlueRidge said:
It can't mean they really are dividing themselves from Trump, though that's what it looks like. Somethings going on here.
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This Republican might agree with you: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/09/24/im-republican-its-time-put-gop-senators-spot-with-impeachment/

I'm not there yet. It's only a non-binding resolution. I'll take it for now but I think a lot depends on how bad it might get for Trump. I believe they will turn on Trump only if he can't escape unharmed.
 
Sparks

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I read Mitch was angry that the funds they approved for Ukraine were held up by Trump.
Plus, he hates the name Moscow Mitch.
I'm not sure it is significant, but it IS something.
 
V

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ballettmaus said:
Ukraine might reopen the investigation in question. They say if they do, it's due to a law Zelensky signed right before leaving for NY. https://www.thedailybeast.com/ukraine-likely-to-reopen-probe-of-hunter-biden-firm-sources
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The article says the investigation would focus on corruption within Ukraine. But I wonder if it might also look at Trump's efforts to coerce Government conduct for his own personal benefit.

Also: New York Times List of Representatives' Positions on Impeachment
 
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BlueRidge

BlueRidge

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Quick and to the point. And that's how everything needs to be now.

I just want to give my feelings on this, given that it is often really hard for people to see beyond the horse-race politics of party vs party that is presented so constantly in the media.

To me, this situation is not about "getting Trump." It is about holding accountable a president who has by all the information we have now seen, seriously abused the power of his office with regard to the Ukraine affair. If our country is to survive as a constitutional democracy, the president must be held accountable for such actions.

To me, this is a very grave step and a very distressing day for our country.
 
BlueRidge

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ballettmaus said:
I hope so but six committees? I guess, we'll see how good they are at coordinating.
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With regard to the Ukraine affair, it is the Intelligence Committee and Adam Schiff that is in the lead.

I think she went with the six committees because that way the whole thing would not be derailed by turf wars and problems of coordination. The other committees may continue what they are working on. If (or if it does not), Intelligence gets the whistle blower complaint or the whistle blower testimony, it can be handed to Judiciary for articles of impeachment to be introduced, as in the path Jennifer Rubin described in her earlier column.
 
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