Monkeypox in Wash, DC, & beyond; vaccines for gay men & other vulner. groups

once_upon

Enough
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23,960
Sorry for the double post...speaking of polio, measles, meningitis, chickenpox and other diseases we have vaccines for and as a retired pediatric nurse who during her career saw a significant difference in incidence of those diseases with vaccines - I am so disgusted with the anti vax movement and now increase in those diseases.

Misinformation.

Off my soapbox and not the thread for it.
 

Frau Muller

From Puerto Rico…With Love!
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18,476
On the day when I began this thread, local NBC News had this story-alert front & center…wanted to get the word out to the local LGBTQ+ community…esp Gay & Bi men and those who may come into contact with bed sheets, towels, etc.

DC Public Health also getting the word out…esp as cases spiked during and right after Pride Month parties (sexual activities).

What’s wrong with getting the word out?
The TODAY Show on NBC will have a feature segment this morn (Monday, July 25).

Editing to add:
 
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once_upon

Enough
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I dont think there is an issue with giving information, what is the problem is the perception that it is a gay/bisexual only problem.

That's a population that has had a spike in cases, but it is not an STD. I repeat it is NOT an STD. We cannot let the gay/bisexual community be treated like we did during the AIDS crisis.
 

once_upon

Enough
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23,960
Nor can we do what we did with Covid and think if we "control" it in one population it will be gone or limit who we believe need testing or treatment.

Remember how we thought if we isolated the orthodox conservative Jewish community in NYC, spread in NYC would be stopped? Or believed that only elderly could/would be the most severe cases? Or when we thought we could isolate it to nursing care facilities? Or limit international travel?

The mistakes we cannot, must not make, is believing-announcing-treating monkeypox as a gay/bisexual men disease. IT is not.
 

DLamp

Banned Member
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8
Nor can we do what we did with Covid and think if we "control" it in one population it will be gone or limit who we believe need testing or treatment.

Remember how we thought if we isolated the orthodox conservative Jewish community in NYC, spread in NYC would be stopped? Or believed that only elderly could/would be the most severe cases? Or when we thought we could isolate it to nursing care facilities? Or limit international travel?

The mistakes we cannot, must not make, is believing-announcing-treating monkeypox as a gay/bisexual men disease. IT is not.

So there are a couple things going on here, as long as we are getting on soapboxes.

One, I agree with you, assuredly monkeypox is not an STD and it will not only affect the gay community. As I mentioned, there are undoubtedly cases out there right now in the general population that are not being diagnosed, or are being misdiagnosed, because those people cannot get a test. They are turned away because testing has only been targeted at gay men and their close contacts.

Two, the gay population may be disproportionally affected right now. You actually see this difference of opinion playing out in the gay community. There are those who, like you, are screaming "NOT A GAY DISEASE! NO STIGMA!" And there are those who are screaming this is a real problem for the gay community right now. Help!

The fact is that both points are true. If it's not an STD, and it's not only going to affect the gay community, then why is the gay community being disproportionally affected right now? Because the ones who have got it are sexually promiscuous. Read article after article of gay men in the media who have been diagnosed with monkeypox, and they invariably describe how they had sex with dozens of anonymous strangers during pride month, or even in the same weekend.

Here are two examples:



We have been in a pandemic the last two years, where people have been forced to wear masks against their will. School children have had their development irreparably harmed by not being able to attend class and properly socialize. Little kids have barely seen smiling faces, some of them might only know life with everyone wearing scary masks all the time.

And yet we have these certain people who cannot be bothered to not have sex with dozens of anonymous strangers, spreading around disease after disease. Soapbox time! Many of these gay men who have been diagnosed have multiple other STDs, including HIV, they spread around society without thinking twice, completely unable to control their urges. You would think after contracting HIV and other STDs, such a person would get the point that there is something wrong with their lifestyle and they need to change their ways, and they would be the last one to get monkeypox, but nope! Absolutely disgusting.

When God strikes people with plagues, it's a warning they are doing evil and need to change their behavior. This is now the second pandemic, monkeypox on top of Covid-19. When God strikes people with multiple plagues upon plagues, it's a sign His warnings are not being listened to and judgment is imminent. That society and its people will be utterly destroyed from off the face of the earth.

There will be more plagues after this one. The people need to adapt their behavior or their society will not survive.
 

DLamp

Banned Member
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8
Oh and before someone tells me I can't have that opinion, I used to identify as bisexual gender non-comforming until I realized it was all social media and pornography garbage and filth widely disseminated throughout our culture.

Who knows how many other youths are out there like this girl?


If the society doesn't change, the earth will vomit it up.
 

Dobre

Well-Known Member
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14,234
What a load of crock, both from a religious and a scientific perspective.

People in concentration camps didn't die from typhus because God was angry at them. They died because the Nazis forced them into unhealthy living conditions.

People didn't die from typhoid because they were morally abject. They died because they honestly believed that putting sewage in large bodies of water & letting the water disperse the sewage was a safe way of dealing with it.

The girl I grew up with didn't become paralyzed from Lyme disease because she or her parents did something wrong. She was paralyzed because she was bitten by a diseased tick.

Children have seen tons of smiling faces. Even when mask mandates were in place months ago, kids were by & large not wearing them outside.

We can all make healthier decisions about how to live our lives. We can exercise more and eat healthier foods and practice safer sexual habits and wear masks in high-risk public places during pandemics. We can get our vaccination doses, avoid walking on warm rocky areas where snakes tend to live, and check our necks & the backs of our ears for ticks after we walk through brush. We can see our doctors and attend regular appointments and get recommended scans. The better educated we are about diseases and the way they spread, the better we can protect ourselves and our fellow human beings.
 
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Dobre

Well-Known Member
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14,234
Don't allowed yourself to get trolled @Dobre and others.
Nah. But now and then a little historical education is good.

One of the bits of "common wisdom" people here latched onto during the pandemic was the idea that the pioneers didn't overreact to diseases. In truth, a local homesteader told my dad, the pioneers were rigorous about sanitation because disease was such a common problem. Hand washing was a big thing. I also read about a local man who burned his cabin to the ground after losing a wife and child to typhoid. They didn't know what caused it so they certainly did "overreact." Then there were quarantine houses in the pioneer towns here, which sound to me like little cabins where you went probably expecting to die. And whole towns were quarantined when smallpox was diagnosed. There were notices in the paper warning people in other communities in the region not to go there.
 

skategal

Bunny mama
Messages
10,318
Nah. But now and then a little historical education is good.

One of the bits of "common wisdom" people here latched onto during the pandemic was the idea that the pioneers didn't overreact to diseases. In truth, a local homesteader told my dad, the pioneers were rigorous about sanitation because disease was such a common problem. Hand washing was a big thing. I also read about a local man who burned his cabin to the ground after losing a wife and child to typhoid. They didn't know what caused it so they certainly did "overreact." Then there were quarantine houses in the pioneer towns here, which sound to me like little cabins where you went probably expecting to die. And whole towns were quarantined when smallpox was diagnosed. There were notices in the paper warning people in other communities in the region not to go there.
On this note I remember reading about a small remote town during the Spanish flu.

They shut down the whole community.

Put community members as guards on the road to town.

No one allowed in or out except for emergencies and then has to quarantine before coming in.

Got mail and packages dropped off outside the town.

If anyone tried to go in or out of town without the guards knowing, they shot them. Dead.

The town was saved from Spanish flu.

No one got it.
 

once_upon

Enough
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23,960
On this note I remember reading about a small remote town during the Spanish flu.

They shut down the whole community.

Put community members as guards on the road to town.

No one allowed in or out except for emergencies and then has to quarantine before coming in.

Got mail and packages dropped off outside the town.

If anyone tried to go in or out of town without the guards knowing, they shot them. Dead.

The town was saved from Spanish flu.

No one got it.
It was much easier to isolate. When we were on our cruise, both Dubrovnik and Venice and I think another one, can't remember which, described how they avoided tge bubonic plague from entering their cities.

They had islands off their coasts, built isolation quarters and any visitors quarantined for 40 days before being allowed into the city walls.

Again a different time, easier to manage borders. But they were successful
 

Louis

Private citizen
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18,287
TBH, it was entirely predictable that monkeypox was going to spread during gay pride.

Why then wasn’t there more of an effort to vaccinate people before pride, and why are so few vaccinations making it to the US even now?

FWIW, I know several people who got monkeypox during NYC pride. I don’t know how many people (if any) they had sex with, and I don’t care. People can’t be expected to remain celibate, and AFAIK there no “safe sex” when it comes to monkeypox. There’s not even safe kissing or hugging.

(And, no, AFAIK, my friends who contracted monkeypox do not have HIV or other diseases. One has never had covid but came down with monkeypox right away.)

Sex is a basic human need. After two years of covid restrictions, I’m not going to fault anyone who has decided that life is for living.

That said — firsthand reports I had from friends who had it boiled down to “not fun” and “you really don’t want this.” Those who had covid and monkeypox said monkeypox was worse, by a lot, and far more painful.
 

once_upon

Enough
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23,960
From what I read, vaccine production was small and is being ramped up.

I'm not sure the current outbreak of monkeypox was occurring before Pride. As I've said, it is not an STD and while we are currently seeing more in the gay and bisexual men population it was not considered a high risk population group.

Again, the monkeypox virus is/was considered endemic in African nations. I dont know that there is a clear contact tracing as to arriving the US and European nations.

At the current vaccine schedule I see is a two shot series, first best given 4-14 days after exposure and 2nd shot 2 weeks later. Most vaccines are time sensitive in vials, im not sure a large quantity can be on hand everywhere when it wasn't in high demand until recently.

AGAIN - it is not an STD, it is not confined to the gay and busexual men population.

Edited to add: I just read where you can now register for vaccinations in DC area and for now, it seems eligibility is based on sex risks. It is free. I do understand the targeted vaccinations but really, really wish they could do something to dispel an idea that it us sexually transmitted.
 
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Louis

Private citizen
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Monkeypox IS sexually transmitted (with extremely high certainty). It’s not exclusively sexually transmitted.
 

myhoneyhoney

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2,952
A bit off topic…

Ooo boy, I get to ignore another! As someone who was forced to attend Catholic school for most of my childhood years including high school… uh uh… done with “religious” nuts. I firmly believe they’re the root of all evil.

I hope more vaccines are made. This is scary, I hate vaccines, but I’ll take it and advise Hubby and our kids too if it becomes available for us. I have the smallpox vaccine scar on my left arm. I’ll have to research if that reduces the severity of a Monkeypox infection. Or if it’s even still effective.
 

Miezekatze

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16,532
TBH, it was entirely predictable that monkeypox was going to spread during gay pride.

Why then wasn’t there more of an effort to vaccinate people before pride, and why are so few vaccinations making it to the US even now?

In Germany they ordered doses a few months ago already and yet it took until nearly now to start distribution. My state only NOW starts vaccinations.
Also with so little doses it seems hard for people to actually get access, even if they are the people who are designated to get them with priority.

Some guy in a German forum was going to move to Berlin from a rural area near Cologne and he wanted to get the vaccine 4 weeks before moving to Berlin (and attending pride there) and he found no possibility nearby his home town and would have had to travel 2,5 hours for it. So I think he just decided to wait until he's already moved to Berlin. He was pretty frustrated, because he wrote he spent like a whole week on the phone just trying to find out about vaccination possibilities.

And there just was another article about pride here in Stuttgart, that many people want to get the vaccine and are actively asking for it, but there's only 1200 doses distributed to Stuttgart and only of a vaccine that has to be stored at -20 degrees celsius and be used within 12 hours after being defrosted, which again makes logistics difficult.

If that's what happens when people are actively trying to get the vaccine, that's pretty lame.

FWIW, I think monkeypox cases are under control and a bit declining in Germany already again.

So I don't think it's very difficult to manage this, but it seems many countries just aren't good at quickly distributing vaccines to the people who need/want them.

One would think Covid would have helped improving such processes :shuffle:
:rolleyes:
 

Louis

Private citizen
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18,287
Here’s a gifted New York Times article on the bureaucracy of getting vaccine doses to the US:

Vaccines were literally sitting in storage and waiting for ridiculously slow transport, while people were begging for them and being turned away. The two people I know with moneypox both tried to get vaccinated. Several other friends have been constantly refreshing the web site and travelling hundreds of miles for vaccines. It’s a sh*tshow, and a lot of was preventable.

(Another) sad failure of the Biden administration. I can’t imagine the outrage if a Republican administration had done this.
 

Wyliefan

Slow, dull, and G-rated
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37,460
TBH, it was entirely predictable that monkeypox was going to spread during gay pride.

Why then wasn’t there more of an effort to vaccinate people before pride, and why are so few vaccinations making it to the US even now?

FWIW, I know several people who got monkeypox during NYC pride. I don’t know how many people (if any) they had sex with, and I don’t care. People can’t be expected to remain celibate, and AFAIK there no “safe sex” when it comes to monkeypox. There’s not even safe kissing or hugging.

(And, no, AFAIK, my friends who contracted monkeypox do not have HIV or other diseases. One has never had covid but came down with monkeypox right away.)

Sex is a basic human need. After two years of covid restrictions, I’m not going to fault anyone who has decided that life is for living.

That said — firsthand reports I had from friends who had it boiled down to “not fun” and “you really don’t want this.” Those who had covid and monkeypox said monkeypox was worse, by a lot, and far more painful.
It's not a need. It's important, but it's not a need. If it were a need, we'd have to sympathize with every incel who acts like an idiot because he can't get a woman to sleep with him.

I've read the articles and I feel awful for these poor guys who are in such pain. :( I want us to provide vaccines for everyone who needs them, and I want us to wipe this thing out. And I want people who haven't yet been vaccinated to lower their risk all they can in this moment, for their own sakes. If COVID taught us anything, it taught us that. I haven't yet been able to be vaccinated for COVID (for reasons I've gone into elsewhere on the board) and I'm still living like a hermit. I hate it, but which is worse -- to live like a hermit for now, knowing it won't be forever, or to raise the risk to myself and to others? We all have to make decisions like that sometimes. It sucks, but we have to.

My heart goes out to your friends, and I hope they're doing much better.
 

Susan1

Well-Known Member
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12,006
Vaccines were literally sitting in storage and waiting for ridiculously slow transport, while people were begging for them and being turned away. The two people I know with moneypox both tried to get vaccinated. Several other friends have been constantly refreshing the web site and travelling hundreds of miles for vaccines. It’s a sh*tshow, and a lot of was preventable.

(Another) sad failure of the Biden administration. I can’t imagine the outrage if a Republican administration had done this.
Sorry for your friends, but where was all this outrage during covid? Would you wear a mask and not whine about missing international travel if it helped YOUR friends? Now you want the big, bad US government to help THEM. Most of the covid deaths were preventable. Your favorite president's inaction and lies caused them.
 

Louis

Private citizen
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Sex is a basic physiological need for human beings. There’s probably more scientific agreement on that than on man-made climate change. I’m honestly shocked anyone would disagree. Sex being a need has nothing to do with rape, etc., which is never ok.

Sorry for your friends, but where was all this outrage during covid? Would you wear a mask and not whine about missing international travel if it helped YOUR friends? Now you want the big, bad US government to help THEM.

I want the big, bad US government not to get in the way of vaccine supply. People want vaccines. Pharma companies want to supply vaccines. The vaccines are widely recognized as safe. Big government is in between, blocking. If the same had happened with covid vaccinations, I’d have been just as loud. We haven’t seemed to have learned that time is of the essence.

I am glad that we did not see prides cancelled, social distancing rules, useless masks, or other assaults on liberty during pride events. At least not so far. Trust me, I’ll be screaming just as loudly if we do.
 

once_upon

Enough
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Sex is a basic physiological need for human beings. There’s probably more scientific agreement on that than on man-made climate change.
Source?
I want the big, bad US government not to get in the way of vaccine supply. People want vaccines. Pharma companies want to supply vaccines. The vaccines are widely recognized as safe. Big government is in between, blocking.
Source?
 

Prancer

Aun Aprendo
Staff member
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53,279
Sex is a basic physiological need for human beings. There’s probably more scientific agreement on that than on man-made climate change. I’m honestly shocked anyone would disagree. Sex being a need has nothing to do with rape, etc., which is never ok.
I believe there is actually quite a bit of disagreement among scientists about this. You cannot live without oxygen, water or food, so those are needs. You can live without having sex; a lot of people do.

Can you really look at stats like these and say that sex is a basic physiological need? How are these people surviving then?

But let's say that sex is a basic biological need. Even basic biological needs can be restricted; people fast, for example, for health reasons. People can choose to be celibate--and do--for the same reasons. Even if you need sex, you don't need it this minute or else.
 

Susan1

Well-Known Member
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12,006
I believe there is actually quite a bit of disagreement among scientists about this. You cannot live without oxygen, water or food, so those are needs. You can live without having sex; a lot of people do.

Can you really look at stats like these and say that sex is a basic physiological need? How are these people surviving then?

But let's say that sex is a basic biological need. Even basic biological needs can be restricted; people fast, for example, for health reasons. People can choose to be celibate--and do--for the same reasons. Even if you need sex, you don't need it this minute or else.
Well, again, he is projecting his feelings, wants and needs on to all human beings. Shocker (not).
 

MacMadame

Doing all the things
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51,376
I thought adameve.com gave us adult toys. 🤷

Anyway, the reason you can't just walk up somewhere and get the monkeypox vaccine is that they are in short supply and public health people want the most vulnerable people to get what little we've got until production ramps up.
 

once_upon

Enough
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23,960
I thought adameve.com gave us adult toys. 🤷

Anyway, the reason you can't just walk up somewhere and get the monkeypox vaccine is that they are in short supply and public health people want the most vulnerable people to get what little we've got until production ramps up.
And given the potential shelf life of unreconstituted is around 18 months keeping a supply big enough for all US citizens in national reserves seems difficult to manage.
 

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