UPDATED: Guilty verdict in Bill Cosby Case (threads merged)

[Japanfan]

He is 79 right? He won't be the first one to believe in his own version of events as truth.

My mil does this all the time, except her history rewrite/selective memory involves more mundane subject and does not involve anything criminal, thank goodness. I can totally see Cosby believe he is the victim.

It's also possible that he really believes his sexual relations with the women who accused him of assault were consensual, even if they weren't - I'll admit I tend to believe the women.

A male celebrity with a large sense of self-importance and vastly inflated ego might think he is simply irressistable to women. Power and wealth could buttress that feeling of entitlement and skewed perception of reality.

 

[Tinami Amori]

I am @ 90% convinced he is guilty, @ 10% still have “reasonable doubt”… But not that "he did it", rather "how women reacted and what they did".

I probably would not have voted to CRIMINALLY convict him either, because of 10% doubt … I am permanently affected since the age of 11, by a film “12 Angry Men”.

There are no questions about what Cosby did, his behavior is disgusting, he drugged them with intention to have sex, etc. In his twisted mind, it seems, he thought he was relaxing them to be more submissive and to have a pleasant experience.

I’ve read many cases and women's recaps of the encounters and it stated that some women woke up to find him engaged in sexual acts which, under normal circumstances, men perform to please women, not to brutalize them.

It’s still abuse and rape, but tells me that he more likely is a delusional sociopath with sexual obsession rather than a violent criminal. None of women needed medical help, did not get pregnant, or got an STD. So, sometimes when a girl drinks too much or smokes too much pot, she wakes up next to a “dog” who sat next to her on a bar stool. It’s yeakkie to think about it, but no-one is hurt.

There are few concerns “about women” which are part of my 10% doubt.

-Practically all kept quiet for many years. Few complained, but not to Police. Not one ran out screaming “rape”. I am sure these women were disgusted, traumatized mentally, but not to the point of involving authorities.

- Some took money right there in his hotel rooms, fairly large amounts.
- Some accepted large lump-sum payments later.
- Some accepted a series of periodic payments and financial assistance.
- Some continued being “friends” with him after the rape.
- Some seem to have written the incident off as “bad experience on a Casting Couch”.

“All about Eve”… Marilyn Monroe: “Why do all producers are old and look like a nappy rabbits?”.. "Because that's what they are..... now go make him happy".. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKhyLCjIpvw

For some reason I get the “tourist in Naples” sentiments from some women's stories….. Yes, I am going to Naples Old Town that is full of pick-pockets, I really do NOT want my purse stolen, but if it is (non-violently) well, it’s Naples after all, and not a Cappuccini Convento.

Also! Interesting how ALL these women suddenly appeared only AFTER Cosby started making “conservative political statements”. I believe every story from these women, but why did they chose to tell them all at once in this specific time? So does that mean until then they were relatively OK to forget about it?

I hope he is financially punished in Civil Cases, but not go to jail, at this point “in history”.

 

[Japanfan]

So, sometimes when a girl drinks too much or smokes too much pot, she wakes up next to a “dog” who sat next to her on a bar stool. It’s yeakkie to think about it, but no-one is hurt.

The experience can still be emotionally harmful, not to mention humiliating, and humiliation hurts. Even in cases where the sex was consensual.

 

[Tinami Amori]

The experience can still be emotionally harmful, not to mention humiliating, and humiliation hurts. Even in cases where the sex was consensual.

True...... But it is quite interesting fact that for all Cosby victims "the experience" became emotionally harmful and humiliating" enough to take actions YEARS after it happened, AND! conveniently at the same time as Cosby publicly expressed his political views......

This does not make Cosby's actions any less terrible. But it does raises a question "how harmed were the women", and should the punishment be prison or financial compensation.

I think he should pay...... To those he did not pay already, he should. Sex is either sold or performed willingly. These women did not agree, he took something for free/basically STOLE SEX from them. Now he should pay.

 

[Sparks]

Some of his victims did tell someone and were discouraged from speaking further. Rape survivors in general, and especially the victims of rich/powerful men are afraid.

Just stop.

 

[Tinami Amori]

Some of his victims did tell someone and were discouraged from speaking further. Rape survivors in general, and especially the victims of rich/powerful men are afraid.

Just stop.

Ha??!!!!!!!!

You really think i will “stop” just because you said so? ……. … make me! By proving that these women were denied access to, or their claims were rejected by, Police or the Legal/Court System, or that the women received treats from Cosby’s side. Otherwise your claim of “discouragement” and personal reasons "not to file reports or to contact authorities" are subjective.

It’s not just 1-2 women, it’s 60 and all chose not to file. Gee.. 60 women are groped or raped but then listen to some private citizens who obviously are idiots and “discourage” them from seeking justice?

We do not know the reasons why they did not file, some maybe because of his “celebrity status”, some maybe because they were happy to get the money, some did not think it will bring results, some did think it’s worth the effort, some might have thought it is not that traumatic, and many other POSSIBILITIES ……. Thus, instead of “he is innocent”, comes “not proven beyond a reasonable doubt”…. Let's see what happens next, maybe in Civil Suites if any...

 

[Japanfan]

It’s not just 1-2 women, it’s 60 and all chose not to file. Gee.. 60 women are groped or raped but then listen to some private citizens who obviously are idiots and “discourage” them from seeking justice?

This isn't the only case in which multiple victims have come forward years after sexual assault is alleged to have occurred.

In fact, the majority of sexual assaults are never reported at all. According to this source it is 80% - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...t-report-rape-or-sexual-assault-survey-claims.
And this is just one of many such sources reporting a similar statistic.

When one woman comes forward, it then gives others permission and the motivation to do the same. So, a snowball effect occurs.

Also, discouraging a woman who claims she has been raped from seeking justice isn't necessarily idiotic. Because justice is so often not achieved, and the victim is re-traumatized in the process - perhaps subjected to scorn and humiliation, not only in court but perhaps even in her private life.

When the alleged rapist is a celebrity with much more power, wealth and influence than the victim, the victim has valid reasons not to report it. Including the fact that celebrities can afford the most expensive lawyers.

This doesn't mean I don't want to see creeps like Cosby tried and held to account - just that I understand why victims choose not to report, or wait to report until they have the support of numbers.

 

[susan6]

Ha??!!!!!!!!

You really think i will “stop” just because you said so? ……. … make me!

Sounds like something a lot of rapists say.

Cosby's drugs kept his victims from protesting during the act. Attitudes like yours kept his victims from protesting after the act.

 

[Tinami Amori]

This isn't the only case in which multiple victims have come forward years after sexual assault is alleged to have occurred.

In fact, the majority of sexual assaults are never reported at all. According to this source it is 80% - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...t-report-rape-or-sexual-assault-survey-claims.
And this is just one of many such sources reporting a similar statistic.

When one woman comes forward, it then gives others permission and the motivation to do the same. So, a snowball effect occurs.

Also, discouraging a woman who claims she has been raped from seeking justice isn't necessarily idiotic. Because justice is so often not achieved, and the victim is re-traumatized in the process - perhaps subjected to scorn and humiliation, not only in court but perhaps even in her private life.

When the alleged rapist is a celebrity with much more power, wealth and influence than the victim, the victim has valid reasons not to report it. Including the fact that celebrities can afford the most expensive lawyers.

This doesn't mean I don't want to see creeps like Cosby tried and held to account - just that I understand why victims choose not to report, or wait to report until they have the support of numbers.

Just quickly to wrap up on my end.

- The law does not prevent women from reporting rape and seeking justice. The rest is their choice, their personality nuances, etc.
- Some women filed cases against Cosby. But he settled out of court, and offered them large sums of money, and they willingly dropped their case and took the money. Which legally reads: These women, for whatever social or personal reasons, AGREED to equate the sex they provided him + whatever discomfort and humiliation they suffered to an XX amount of $$. Case closed.
- Several other women, after the first rape, continued to meet with Cosby, and to have sex several more times, stating that they thought "oh, well, maybe he can help me with my career".

I am not blaming women. The issue here is: 2 out 12 jurors did not agree to "guilty" verdict, an issue of "reasonable doubt" was brought up by jury before the end of trial, they asked for clarification of the term, which means: they did not think Cosby is not guilty, they had "doubt".
I said that i "understand their doubt" because a) women chose to stay quiet for so long, and b) all 60 came out at once when Cosby in 2008, during Obama elections, expressed "conservative views".

My discussion is about "reasonable doubt"... that's all. I think Cosby is a CREEP, very talented TV actor, but a CREEP.

 

[ballettmaus]

- The law does not prevent women from reporting rape and seeking justice.

True. But society does. Not actively but passively. As one of our politicians pointed out during a debate earlier this year, no one would think of asking a woman whose handbag was stolen why she didn't fight back. And yet, rape victims get asked that question all the time. Rape victims are the only ones who get accused and blamed for not having done this or that or having provoked the action.

In addition to that, Cosby is a celebrity. As difficult as it is to bring an accusation of rape and be believed nowadays, I don't want to imagine how difficult it would have been back then when the assaults happened.

- Some women filed cases against Cosby. But he settled out of court, and offered them large sums of money, and they willingly dropped their case and took the money. Which legally reads: These women, for whatever social or personal reasons, AGREED to equate the sex they provided him + whatever discomfort and humiliation they suffered to an XX amount of $$. Case closed.

Have you ever been in a situation where you had the option of suing for damages and then were offered a settlement? Because I have. It was a completely different situation but there is a lot more to making the decision to settle than what you're making it out to be. And there is no amount of money in the world that can equate when you were harmed in whatever way that might have been.

 

[genevieve]

Cosby was not just a celebrity - he was a beloved persona, he was "America's Dad", a racial groundbreaker, a very influential mentor. And at Temple, an extremely powerful alum and donor. This would inform not only the way that his victims would act (or not act) after the fact, but also how authorities would advise them when they came forward.

As I said before, this was a difficult case to prove at a legal standard, so I'm not surprised there was no guilty verdict - but there are so, so many reasons this didn't come to trial until years after the fact.

 

[Coco]

It's difficult enough to tell your story. When you believe there is no hope that any thing will happen to the perpetrator, and in fact harm may happen to you, the rational thing (sadly) is to not report the assault.

 

[Japanfan]

Cosby was not just a celebrity - he was a beloved persona, he was "America's Dad", a racial groundbreaker, a very influential mentor. And at Temple, an extremely powerful alum and donor.

And now he looks like a total creep, at least to me. If I see him that way, others must as well. There is at least a bit of justice in that.

 

[FiveRinger]

How in the hell are they going to find an impartial jury? Everybody on the planet knows about this case. But I guess that's for the attorneys to figure out.

 

[ilovepaydays]

The verdict is out in the new trial: Cosby found Guilty on all counts.

EDIT: This shows the details of all three counts.

 

[Vagabond]

Bill Cosby Found Guilty of Sexual Assault After Years of Accusations

There are so many lessons I hope are learned from this. And I hope that this greases the wheels of justice in other sexual assault cases involving celebrities.

 

[Vash01]

Justice served.

I have only seen the headline. I don't know the details yet.

 

[ilovepaydays]

Um, acting like this probably won’t help your cause during sentencing. Just sayin’.

 

[just tuned in]

Another report says he used his "Fat Albert" voice and talked in the third person. As in, "He doesn't have an airplane, a**hole." Which makes one wonder if he has a split personality. Fat Albert is the true criminal! Case closed!

 

[Peaches LaTour]

Good. I hope he gets a long prison sentence.

I had a close friend in the entertainment industry who met Cosby several times. Said Cosby was rude & arrogant and those were his better qualities.

 

[genevieve]

I don't think he'll go to prison - I think he will die before his sentence begins.

Nevertheless, his life and legacy are in ruins, and he has finally been tried and convicted. I hope this brings justice to all the women he has harmed over the years.

 

[BaileyCatts]

Does anyone really think he will see the inside of a jail cell? I had heard a report that sentencing can be anytime in the next 60-90 days, and then he will just immediately appeal and likely remain free on bond as he is now. He's 80 and doesn't seem to be in good health. I think he'll likely die before he ever goes to jail. The conviction is some justice at least.

 

[Japanfan]

Social justice has no place in a jury room.

Reading through this thread a second time today, this struck me as a really odd comment.

How can any evolved legal system not aspire to advance social justice? Social justice is an integral element of a justice system.

 

[puglover]

I totally understand why women would not report an assault by a man with the power and influence of Bill Cosby. The one who did come forward did not have an easy go of it. These so easily become a "he said she said" and the time was not right for women to be able to be assured they would be listened to and believed. When so many women - many older and with absolutely nothing to gain, come forward with the same story I feel a very strong feminist disgust when they are still called liars.

 

[Vagabond]

Does anyone really think he will see the inside of a jail cell? I had heard a report that sentencing can be anytime in the next 60-90 days, and then he will just immediately appeal and likely remain free on bond as he is now.

I think he'll go to prison (not jail) after sentencing.

Here's why:

(1) When the sentence imposed includes imprisonment of less than 2 years, the defendant shall have the same right to bail as before verdict, unless the judge, pursuant to paragraph (D), modifies the bail order.
(2) Except as provided in paragraph (A)(1), when the sentence imposed includes imprisonment of 2 years or more, the defendant shall not have the same right to bail as before verdict, but bail may be allowed in the discretion of the judge.

https://www.pacode.com/secure/data/234/chapter5/s521.html

State court judges are political figures. Even though Cosby is 80, it would be a very bold judge who would use his discretion to allow bail to such a high-profile defendant in a sexual assault case.

And I think there's a good chance that any appeal before sentencing will be dealt with speedily to send a message.

ETA: This piece in The New York Times explains why Cosby is likely to face incarceration sooner rather than later: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/27/arts/television/bill-cosby-guilty-next-steps.html

 

[AxelAnnie]

Reading through this thread a second time today, this struck me as a really odd comment.

How can any evolved legal system not aspire to advance social justice? Social justice is an integral element of a justice system.

Sorry my meaning eluded you. It still holds true. The jury did not convict him the first time round. It is the way the system works..

 

[genevieve]

I'm sure that with the second case coming on the heels of the #metoo movement, and more people understanding just HOW FECKING PERVASIVE sexual abuse of power is, jurors may have been more willing to believe Constand's story this time around. I don't see that as social justice, I see it as us becoming a less ignorant society. May this be a sign that more rapists will face juries unwilling to overlook their misdeeds, and more victims will be believed.

 

[MacMadame]

Sorry my meaning eluded you. It still holds true. The jury did not convict him the first time round. It is the way the system works..

And the prosecutor is allowed to re-try when the jury can't come to an agreement. That's also how our system works.

 

[Rob]

It's difficult enough to tell your story. When you believe there is no hope that any thing will happen to the perpetrator, and in fact harm may happen to you, the rational thing (sadly) is to not report the assault.

This.
Rape victims were traditionally put on trial themselves.
Rape victims in the workplace are afraid that the accusation will ruin their careers.
I see the timing as more a sign of the times that women are being believed, and that the now older victims no longer fear the repercussions.

 

[MacMadame]

WaPo said something similar in this article and has some quotes from lawyers talking about how justice is impacted by cultural norms:

https://s2.washingtonpost.com/camp-rw/?e=bWFjbWFkYW1lQGdtYWlsLmNvbQ==&s=5ae3231dfe1ff668a04e9561