Just call me Harry. (Everything Harry & Meghan)

antmanb

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,067
@Karen-W my issue with your posts is that you have told people to stop talking about race or "blaming" race. When someone tries to stop a discussion about race my spider senses tingle. It's like when straight people try and shut me down when I bring up accusations of homophobia. 9/10 the people shutting me down are homophobes who are offended at being called out. Perhaps you are in the 1/10 but like I said my spider senses tingle so....
 

Judy

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,045
I don’t hate Harry and Meghan. I have said their child is cute. I have said royal life hard I don’t blame them for leaving.

I don’t like them giving an interview trashing family members and talking about what hey are owed when they quit the family business, inherited millions and you have peope who literally don’t homes who literally lost their jobs and are literally struggling.

One point Charles spent 45 million of his own money on Harry and Meghan wedding but we wanted something more private think about that in an Internet. 45 million. No thanks for the help we are grateful.

There is always to sides to every story.
But you are good about making assumptions becca.
 

Judy

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,045
I'm reading an article by Caitlin Flanagan in The Atlantic about elite private schools (through high school) where I came across the following:



She also writes about the cost to Black students who've attended them, including the micro-aggressions through overt racism they describe.
Well I worked in an elite private school in my city and there are several reasons why parents send their kids to private. Mine was independent (not for profit aka all the money goes back into the school, salaries etc). Teachers are very highly paid here and I don’t think? that teachers in the U.S. are as highly paid). I believe there are a ton more for profit schools in the U.S. and we have some too but I am not that familiar with the U.S. schools.

If you’d like to know more info though send me a pm.
 

floskate

Vacant
Messages
9,829
This is something I've been thinking about too. It was less that three years ago that Charles walked Meghan down the aisle in what seemed to be an honest, compassionate and rule-breaking gesture of support not just for his son and the marriage, but for Meghan herself. Less than 18 months later, Harry and Meghan were on their way to breaking from the BRF, and it's gone downhill from there.
I, too, was very touched by Charles walking Meghan down the aisle. There had been dodgy press in the lead up but the public mood was really positive and I was very hopeful for them as well as her being a great new addition to the Royal Family that day.....until the sermon. When I saw the behaviour of some of the family while the pastor spoke during that service, I was appalled. They LOATHED it, were excrutiatingly embarrassed by it and what was worse, they didn't even try to hide their furtive glances and giggles during it. I had an awful feeling right then that this would not end well. Also, imagine finally settling down to watch your own wedding video and to re-live the best day of your life, only to find your new family sniggering at something that you obviously held dear. That had to have cut to the quick - for both of them.
 

Karen-W

Well-Known Member
Messages
8,175
@Karen-W my issue with your posts is that you have told people to stop talking about race or "blaming" race. When someone tries to stop a discussion about race my spider senses tingle. It's like when straight people try and shut me down when I bring up accusations of homophobia. 9/10 the people shutting me down are homophobes who are offended at being called out. Perhaps you are in the 1/10 but like I said my spider sense tingle so....
Honestly, the stuff that Meghan brought up and implied that race was a factor in - specifically regarding security and titles/styles - was wrong. I don't have any problem with her decrying the UK tabloids and some of the blatant race baiting they engaged in. That, flat out, is problematic to say the least and factually provable. The security and title issues - not so much and, as someone who has actively followed not just the BRF but many royal families for the last 12-15 years, it doesn't jibe with me at all. Others have pointed out that most European royal families are moving to reduce the number of people entitled to HRH titles in their royal families, others have pointed out that security would have been provided for the Sussexes kids just by nature of their parents home being Frogmore Cottage and that the BRF doesn't actually make those determinations but instead the Metropolitan Police Protection Command. There are legitimate reasons to doubt the absolute veracity of a lot of what M&H said in that interview and I stand by my view that trashing the BRF over the titles and security and implying that Archie's skin tone/race was a factor in those decisions was gross and unnecessary.
 

antmanb

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,067
Honestly, the stuff that Meghan brought up and implied that race was a factor in - specifically regarding security and titles/styles - was wrong. I don't have any problem with her decrying the UK tabloids and some of the blatant race baiting they engaged in. That, flat out, is problematic to say the least and factually provable. The security and title issues - not so much and, as someone who has actively followed not just the BRF but many royal families for the last 12-15 years, it doesn't jibe with me at all. Others have pointed out that most European royal families are moving to reduce the number of people entitled to HRH titles in their royal families, others have pointed out that security would have been provided for the Sussexes kids just by nature of their parents home being Frogmore Cottage and that the BRF doesn't actually make those determinations but instead the Metropolitan Police Protection Command. There are legitimate reasons to doubt the absolute veracity of a lot of what M&H said in that interview and I stand by my view that trashing the BRF over the titles and security and implying that Archie's skin tone/race was a factor in those decisions was gross and unnecessary.

I think you missed the entire point of my post. You told people in this thread on FSU to stop talking about race. You personally tried to shut down the conversation in here. That is what doesn't sit well with me but as is par for the course, there will be very little point in continuing this conversation so I will bow out now having said my piece.
 

becca

Well-Known Member
Messages
20,615
But you are good about making assumptions becca.
And people aren’t making assumptions about the royal family? Archie doesn’t have a title that means the royal family is racist that’s a pretty huge assumption.

I did say maybe I should wait for the interview before I assume it’s trashing family members and sure enough it was.

I am sorry Harry and Meghan didn’t like when Meghans family gave interviews airing private family issues but it’s a-okay for them to do the same to his own family.

Every family had their issues and disputes and usually not just one person is wrong.

We don’t know what into Charles stating enough no more bank of Dad. They were asking for a lot of money.

And Meghan and Harry could have gotten a huge house in Florida on the beach for example for one tenth of the cost. In a scenario would draw less paparazzi and this less security and funded their own security costs

Charles had a lot of issues he was a bad husband but he does do a lot of good with his money funds a lot of charities. And while yes his kid mattters but if his kid is treating money like it grows on trees he is not helping things by giving them a blank check. We don’t know the context. It’s possible Charles was willing under. certain circumstances.


If a line isn’t drawn you could have George and the British tax payers funding Harry Meghan and their kids for the rest of their live. And what’s to stop their grandkids from having expectations too. At least the Queens cousins do royal duties.


For personal reasons I want go into it I know what it’s like to have someone in your life think you owe them everything and not care about your own finances.
 
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Lemonade20

If I agreed with you, we’d both be wrong.
Messages
1,649
I think I miss aftershocks!! At least then this thread would have lengthy diatribes full of assumptions and speculation from both sides.
I don't miss aftershocks, and I understand why H&M don't feel supported by the firm. But at the same time, show some class and say they're happy and moving on.
 

jadingirl

Active Member
Messages
230
I, too, was very touched by Charles walking Meghan down the aisle. There had been dodgy press in the lead up but the public mood was really positive and I was very hopeful for them as well as her being a great new addition to the Royal Family that day.....until the sermon. When I saw the behaviour of some of the family while the pastor spoke during that service, I was appalled. They LOATHED it, were excrutiatingly embarrassed by it and what was worse, they didn't even try to hide their furtive glances and giggles during it. I had an awful feeling right then that this would not end well. Also, imagine finally settling down to watch your own wedding video and to re-live the best day of your life, only to find your new family sniggering at something that you obviously held dear. That had to have cut to the quick - for both of them.
The best part of the wedding was watching Charles move into position and then walking Meghan down the aisle. He looked beyond thrilled to be doing it.

You know if Harry and Meghan had hung on a little longer they would have been in lockdown at Frogmore Cottage and part of the Queen's social bubble since she was at Windsor. Imagine how differently this all would have played out.
 

becca

Well-Known Member
Messages
20,615
I, too, was very touched by Charles walking Meghan down the aisle. There had been dodgy press in the lead up but the public mood was really positive and I was very hopeful for them as well as her being a great new addition to the Royal Family that day.....until the sermon. When I saw the behaviour of some of the family while the pastor spoke during that service, I was appalled. They LOATHED it, were excrutiatingly embarrassed by it and what was worse, they didn't even try to hide their furtive glances and giggles during it. I had an awful feeling right then that this would not end well. Also, imagine finally settling down to watch your own wedding video and to re-live the best day of your life, only to find your new family sniggering at something that you obviously held dear. That had to have cut to the quick - for both of them.
Are you sure they loathed it or that they were in shock just not use to it?

Anglican homilies are very very different it’s probably completely not what they were use to do they laughed. Maybe they should not have but then you know laughing doesn’t mean loath they might have actually enjoyed it because they laughed.

Charles was the one who invited the gospel choir. If he was so anti a non white person entering the family why would he suggest a gospel choir to celebrate her heritage?

 
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mella

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,732
Are you sure they loathed it or that they were in shock just not use to it?

Anglican homilies are very very different it’s probably completely not what they were use to do they laughed. Maybe they should not have but then you know laughing doesn’t mean loath they might have actually enjoyed it because they laughed.

Charles was the one who invited the gospel choir. If he was so anti a non white person entering the family why would he suggest a gospel choir to celebrate her heritage?

There were literally members of that family sniggering. Rude regardless of how kindly you try to spin it and strangely only in response to a black man speaking. From people trained to have best poker faces in Britain? Please give me a break that they couldn't do better at pretending/concealing such an obnoxious reaction. I personally prefer to have seen the truth but let's not now pretend that behaviour can be excused.

For what its worth I doubt Charles was the person who made the comments at the centre of the racism claims. It doesn't align to what seem to be his attitudes in general. But that doesn't mean the rest of his family get a pass - Phillip and Andrew are both already on record as having made racist jokes or comments in the past and those claims hella predate Meghan. Phillip has been excused. No reason to assume Andrew is the only other amongst the family who might have made the comments in question.

"Hatred" is such a strong word. I've been a skeptical, sometimes pretty cynical, person much of my life. It's a shame that you both have chosen to interpret my skepticism and cynicism toward the purity of H&M's motivations and actions as hatred. I think they, especially Harry, have treated the BRF with a level of disrespect and destructiveness that borders on venomous. The fact that I'm comfortable calling their hypocrisy out certainly doesn't equate to hatred. Of course, YMMV, and clearly it does, but go right ahead and use that ignore function if you must.
And somehow not a scrap of cynicism or skepticism to be directed at the BRF. One of the strangest, most secretive and entitled (hereditary and unearned yet here it is still enduring) institutions on the planet but your concerns are directed at H&M disrespect and destructiveness to it. What H&M have costed/would have costed is a drop in the ocean compared to centuries of the royal family but yes lets aim all the cynicism at H&M specifically and ignore that H at least became what/who he is having been born into that family.

Whoever said earlier that the Crown always wins earlier in the thread had it right. So we really needn't exercise ourselves over this interview. Like all the others it will prove to be a blip on the BRF landscape. If Andrew's interview couldn't rock that institution I dont know what can. It was worthy of far more upset and outrage than H&M have warranted over the Last 15months IMHO but here we are with H&M still being talked about like the worst thing to crawl out from under a royal rock in the last century.

Why should they defend it? They are private citizens now. I highly doubt they will ever go back. They haven’t committed any crimes.

I agree they shouldn't have to. But i think that was one of their motivators in doing the interview based on what we've seen. That's just my opinion of course.

@antmanb Thanks for summing up why this thread is such an uncomfortable read. So many experts on what should or should not cause offence to someone in terms of comments about race, who have probably never had to deal with racism directed at themselves. As well as the comparison to discussions about/calling out homophobia I'd add men (and some women) who refuse to acknowledge women's experience of sexism and harassment and want us to stop talking about it. All these conversations being shut down by people who are uncomfortable with looking at behaviours and attitudes that might make them consider their own. It's exhausting.

Time for me to bow out too I think.
 
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overedge

G.O.A.T.
Messages
30,428
Are you sure they loathed it or that they were in shock just not use to it?

Anglican homilies are very very different it’s probably completely not what they were use to do they laughed. Maybe they should not have but then you know laughing doesn’t mean loath they might have actually enjoyed it because they laughed.

Charles was the one who invited the gospel choir. If he was so anti a non white person entering the family why would he suggest a gospel choir to celebrate her heritage?


Please stop quoting the Daily Mail as a reliable source of information. Because it isn't. And stop the misinformation on faith traditions that you know nothing about. Anglican ministers give sermons in many different styles, just like ministers in other faiths give sermons in different styles. There is no one style for "Anglican homilies", and I would guess that the members of the royal family who were present have been at many church services that weren't Anglican. So the excuse that "it wasn't what they were used to" is bogus.

You might want to watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3oz0esG7M0
Zara Tindall was extremely pregnant and probably really uncomfortable at having to sit for so long, no matter what was going on, but the other reactions are quite telling.
 

becca

Well-Known Member
Messages
20,615
There were literally members of that family sniggering. Rude regardless of how kindly you try to spin it and strangely only in response to a black man speaking. From people trained to have best poker faces in Britain? Please give me a break that they couldn't do better at pretending/concealing such an obnoxious reaction. I personally prefer to have seen the truth but let's not now pretend that behaviour can be excused.

For what its worth I doubt Charles was the person who made the comments at the centre of the racism claims. It doesn't align to what seem to be his attitudes in general. But that doesn't mean the rest of his family get a pass - Phillip and Andrew are both already on record as having made racist jokes or comments in the past and those claims hella predate Meghan. Phillip has been excused. No reason to assume Andrew is the only other amongst the family who might have made the comments in question.


And somehow not a scrap of cynicism or skepticism to be directed at the BRF. One of the strangest, most secretive and entitled (hereditary and unearned yet here it is still enduring) institutions on the planet but your concerns are directed at H&M disrespect and destructiveness to it. What H&M have costed/would have costed is a drop in the ocean compared to centuries of the royal family but yes lets aim all the cynicism at H&M specifically and ignore that H at least became what/who he is having been born into that family.

Whoever said earlier that the Crown always wins earlier in the thread had it right. So we really needn't exercise ourselves over this interview. Like all the others it will prove to be a blip on the BRF landscape. If Andrew's interview couldn't rock that institution I dont know what can. It was worthy of far more upset and outrage than H&M have warranted over the Last 15months IMHO but here we are with H&M still being talked about like the worst thing to crawl put from under a royal rock in the last century.



I agree they shouldn't have to. But i think that was one of their motivators in doing the interview based on what we've seen. That's just my opinion of course.

@antmanb Thanks for summing up why this thread is such an uncomfortable read. So many experts on what should or should not cause offence to someone in terms of comments about race, who have probably never had to deal with racism directed at themselves. As well as the comparison to discussions about/calling out homophobia I'd add men (and some women) who refuse to acknowledge women's experience of sexism and harassment and want us to stop talking about it. All these conversations being shut down by people who are uncomfortable with looking at behaviours and attitudes that might make them consider their own. It's exhausting.

Time for me to bow out too I think.
No one is denying it exists and yes
There were literally members of that family sniggering. Rude regardless of how kindly you try to spin it and strangely only in response to a black man speaking. From people trained to have best poker faces in Britain? Please give me a break that they couldn't do better at pretending/concealing such an obnoxious reaction. I personally prefer to have seen the truth but let's not now pretend that behaviour can be excused.

For what its worth I doubt Charles was the person who made the comments at the centre of the racism claims. It doesn't align to what seem to be his attitudes in general. But that doesn't mean the rest of his family get a pass - Phillip and Andrew are both already on record as having made racist jokes or comments in the past and those claims hella predate Meghan. Phillip has been excused. No reason to assume Andrew is the only other amongst the family who might have made the comments in question.


And somehow not a scrap of cynicism or skepticism to be directed at the BRF. One of the strangest, most secretive and entitled (hereditary and unearned yet here it is still enduring) institutions on the planet but your concerns are directed at H&M disrespect and destructiveness to it. What H&M have costed/would have costed is a drop in the ocean compared to centuries of the royal family but yes lets aim all the cynicism at H&M specifically and ignore that H at least became what/who he is having been born into that family.

Whoever said earlier that the Crown always wins earlier in the thread had it right. So we really needn't exercise ourselves over this interview. Like all the others it will prove to be a blip on the BRF landscape. If Andrew's interview couldn't rock that institution I dont know what can. It was worthy of far more upset and outrage than H&M have warranted over the Last 15months IMHO but here we are with H&M still being talked about like the worst thing to crawl put from under a royal rock in the last century.



I agree they shouldn't have to. But i think that was one of their motivators in doing the interview based on what we've seen. That's just my opinion of course.

@antmanb Thanks for summing up why this thread is such an uncomfortable read. So many experts on what should or should not cause offence to someone in terms of comments about race, who have probably never had to deal with racism directed at themselves. As well as the comparison to discussions about/calling out homophobia I'd add men (and some women) who refuse to acknowledge women's experience of sexism and harassment and want us to stop talking about it. All these conversations being shut down by people who are uncomfortable with looking at behaviours and attitudes that might make them consider their own. It's exhausting.

Time for me to bow out too I think.
Looking back yes snickering shouldn’t have happened. But bad manners isn’t necessarily malice or racism.

And the whole because you don’t think everything is racism that means you don’t believe it exists.

I have seen it I do believe it exists but I have also seen people claim racism unfairly. And that does nothing to help the situation.

I see the videos of the wedding of William beaming happily for his brother while Meghan walked down the aisle.

And Charles beaming happily too he apparently kept a photo on display in his personal residence.

These didn’t look like people that didn’t want to accept Meghan.

Racism exists yes and cultural insensitivity but not everything is racism. There was no need to bring that up. And the fact that they refused to name names means they all got tainted with that brush. It is no right.
 

AxelAnnie

Like a small boat on the ocean...
Messages
13,513
There were literally members of that family sniggering.


@antmanb

Time for me to bow out too I think.
How do you know what these people were sniggering about?
Isn't it equally possible that any sniggering that was about the flower boys and girls? They were terribly cute, and I am sure confused and funny.

I would love to know the source of your contention. Were you inside St. George's Chapel? If you were, I would love more details.

Did you enjoy the Black Choir?

Black choir at Harry and Meghan’s wedding defends Prince Charles amid racism allegations

I saw it only on TV, but they looked great.
 

Judy

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,045
Please stop quoting the Daily Mail as a reliable source of information. Because it isn't. And stop the misinformation on faith traditions that you know nothing about. Anglican ministers give sermons in many different styles, just like ministers in other faiths give sermons in different styles. There is no one style for "Anglican homilies", and I would guess that the members of the royal family who were present have been at many church services that weren't Anglican. So the excuse that "it wasn't what they were used to" is bogus.

You might want to watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3oz0esG7M0
Zara Tindall was extremely pregnant and probably really uncomfortable at having to sit for so long, no matter what was going on, but the other reactions are quite telling.
Please stop quoting the Daily Mail as a reliable source of information. Because it isn't. And stop the misinformation on faith traditions that you know nothing about. Anglican ministers give sermons in many different styles, just like ministers in other faiths give sermons in different styles. There is no one style for "Anglican homilies", and I would guess that the members of the royal family who were present have been at many church services that weren't Anglican. So the excuse that "it wasn't what they were used to" is bogus.

You might want to watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3oz0esG7M0
Zara Tindall was extremely pregnant and probably really uncomfortable at having to sit for so long, no matter what was going on, but the other reactions are quite telling.
I always get up for Royal Weddings but set my alarm wrong for Harry and Meghan’s. I did watch a replay but you really have to watch it live. I absolutely believe that Charles was extremely happy and proud to walk her down the aisle. I thought Doria rocked too. I didn’t read comments. Social media can just be very ugly I refuse to participate in it.
 

Judy

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,045
Something to take into consideration when posters criticize Harry and Meghan about security. What do you think happened when the tabloids attacked Meghan for “making Kate cry”. I believe that went on for a lengthy time. The palace should have said something immediately. Nobody in their right mind can’t possibly appreciate that the anger and death threats wouldn’t have escaluated.

I like Kate but yah. Big lesson learned Royals.
 

AxelAnnie

Like a small boat on the ocean...
Messages
13,513
Something to take into consideration when posters criticize Harry and Meghan about security. What do you think happened when the tabloids attacked Meghan for “making Kate cry”. I believe that went on for a lengthy time. The palace should have said something immediately. Nobody in their right mind can’t possibly appreciate that the anger and death threats wouldn’t have escaluated.

I like Kate but yah. Big lesson learned Royals.
No, Morgan would be a typo. What does this have to do with Security?
And the Palace does not comment of this kind of stuff. Why would they?
Is "Morgan" the Q-Anon addition to this story?
 

MacMadame

Staying at home
Messages
42,612
Maybe I should rephrase no need to bring up to the public should have been addressed in private with the folks involved.
There is always a need to bring up racism. We can't combat something we refuse to talk about.
Where is Aftershocks?

For posting some batsh*t stuff. Which is why, when Prancer said people were reporting posts in this thread, my reaction was :huh: . While I've seen some infurating posts in this thread, I haven't seen anything that actually breaks the rules or is as crazy as some of her stuff.
 

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