Jeffrey Epstein's death by apparent suicide, conspiracy theories/investigations, and legal aftermath

AxelAnnie

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Isn't there some way that the Clintons could bring a civil lawsuit against Trump for Trump's criminal insinuations against them in this matter?
I believe you cannot bring a law suit against a sitting President.

PBS News Hour

I don't think there is anything called criminal insinuation.

What do you have in mind for the Clintons to sue Trump for? People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

As an aside: I think everyone is bat-shit crazy. Politicians generally have sold their souls before they ever get to office.
 

MacMadame

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I don't think there is anything called criminal insinuation.
But there is libel and slander.

I don't think the Clintons will bother but that doesn't mean they couldn't do it ... once Trump is out of office, if not before.

IMO, since Trump always accuses people of things he does, the fact that he suggested that the Clintons had Epstein murdered is very telling. I don't assume everyone in Epstein's orbit likes little girls and even had sex with them, but now I'm wondering about Trump.
 
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attyfan

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But there is libel and slander.
...
The Clintons are public figures. This means that they have to prove (as an element of their case) not merely that Trump's accusation was false, but that he knew it was false (or spoke with reckless disregard for the truth) at the time. This is a very high standard -- and difficult to meet.
 

MacMadame

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I think in this case, they should be able to meet it. He clearly spoke with reckless disregard for the truth and he has a history of doing so.

But it's most likely not worth pursuing.
 

Peaches LaTour

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I believe you cannot bring a law suit against a sitting President.

PBS News Hour
I don't think there is anything called criminal insinuation.
What do you have in mind for the Clintons to sue Trump for? People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.


As an aside: I think everyone is bat-shit crazy. Politicians generally have sold their souls before they ever get to office.

Defamation of Character, for one.

Obviously, you believe the Clintons are as corrupt as Trump & perhaps they are, in their own way, but if I were them, I would pursue legal action against him, ASAP.

Somebody has to stop this shithead.
 

rfisher

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coroner had ruled death as suicide. Now, the theories will have to shift to assisted suicide.
 

overedge

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All the conspiracy theories amid heavily armed and paranoid people.

I'd trust the president has heightened security these days, as well.
This. If people are batsh*t crazy enough to drive from several states away to attack a pizza parlor because they were told that Hillary was running a child sex traffic operation in its basement....anything is possible.
 

MacMadame

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^No, they don't. That the coroner was pressured/paid off would also work.
In the comments on the WaPo article, they were doing both.

I don't think a lot of people are going to go for the suicide verdict. Even I, who thinks most conspiracy theories are bunk, am slightly skeptical. But I'm willing to accept it because I mostly don't care. People who want desperately to believe Trump or Clinton ordered this aren't going to be put off by something as little as an expert opinion from the coroner.
 

Prancer

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When I read that (gasp) Epstien had multiple broken bones in his neck and that his hyoid bone was broken--something that usually happens when someone is strangled!--I thought, well, didn't he hang himself? That's usually how prisoners commit suicide. But my, didn't some in the media have a good few days with that before the verdict.

Occam's razor--if you have more than one possible answer, the simplest version is most likely correct. I have no trouble at all believing that he was left alone because the prison was understaffed and incompetently managed; that happens all the time. Incompetence is much more likely than chicanery.
 

aftershocks

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Interview with Virginia Roberts Giuffre:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRaXlHeQFGI :eek: Thank God she was able to escape during the NZ venture

The written comments in this report, from women who did not want to appear in court, are so saddening:
One of Giuffre's lawyers seemed a bit too eager there, as if seeing dollar signs, which of course doesn't lessen the apparent validity of Giuffre's claims. Giuffre has been fighting a long time and she's courageous for doing so. The fact she was so young when she was seduced by Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell, at none other than 'Mar-a-lago,' speaks volumes...

Full version of Giuffre's recent statement to reporters in Manhattan:

Senior Giuffre attorney says there's "too much evidence against the Duke"

Royal reporter Robert Jobson doing backflips to defend Prince Andrew:

A BBC report that takes a more professional journalistic approach: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibDCJ_CQKAY

Commentary:
 
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aftershocks

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canbelto posted this revelation in the royalty thread:


It's interesting how after the clip of Amy Roback was revealed that ABC and Roback have both tried to spin what she said in this unguarded moment.
 

Sylvia

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aftershocks

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OMG! :eek: Incredulous...

He may as well have stayed completely silent, since the intent is to deny, deny, deny utterly unconvincingly. The fake reviews of the Pizza Express in Woking are the least of the fodder this interview has provided for jokesters and spoof-meisters. :scream:
 
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Sylvia

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From the Associated Press:
Excerpt:
The Associated Press reported Friday that the officers were offered a plea deal by prosecutors, but declined to take it.
Both guards were working overtime because of staffing shortages when Epstein was found. The officers have been placed on administrative leave while the FBI and the Justice Department's inspector general investigate the circumstances surrounding Epstein's death.
The city's medical examiner ruled Epstein's death a suicide, but that hasn't stopped conspiracy theories. A forensic pathologist hired by Epstein's family to observe the autopsy has said authorities could help clear things up by being more transparent.
 

aftershocks

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bi-K7udHr1s body language expert analyzes highlights of PrAndrew interview

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXOaocqzXCk CBC discussion of PrAndrew interview

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nxlggVDXhk Channel 4 News synopsis & discussion with articulate writer & Prince Charles biographer, Catherine Mayer:
“Prince Andrew's interview entirely erases the victims… the overwhelming sense of this interview is that he sees himself as a victim…” [Mayer's response to a question about Andrew being outclassed intellectually and manipulated by Epstein]: “There's no doubt that Andrew was outclassed intellectually… so much of what we're looking at is the wider culture of impunity… by visiting Epstein after his conviction, Andrew gave cover to Epstein… The #MeToo movement has needed to take it beyond individual stories to highlight the enablers and organizations that attempt to cover and close down the criminal behavior of abusers *... This [Andrew] interview in a way is useful in exposing how that cover works… even though that wasn't Andrew's intention in giving the interview… When Andrew talked about letting the side down, the side he meant is the Establishment, the monarchy, he let light in accidentally…”

I would phrase it that Andrew (with Ghislane Maxwell and Epstein as debauched, craven opportunists and manipulators) apparently 'let light in' on his own reckless, culpable behavior, cluelessly, self-indulgently and stupidly, rather than 'accidentally.'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQOOxOl9l80
Australian 60 Minutes investigative report provides details on how Virginia Roberts Giuffre became entrapped for three years in Epstein's web, including stories from other victims who have as adults been fighting back for years to bring Epstein to justice

*In his work, Ronan Farrow has exposed how criminal behavior by powerful people is often enabled and how attempts to shed light on abuses are shut down--

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25grufuBxl8 a discussion between Ronan Farrow and Canadian investigative reporter, Robin Doolittle, about the problem with the justice system often being the gatekeeper for protecting sexual abusers; they also discuss Farrow's new book and the hazards of pursuing investigative work that gets at the truth of injustices.
 
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aftershocks

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Additional fallout reactions on Prince Andrew's interview:
"I don't think self-awareness is anything Prince Andrew has ever suffered from..."
"A mixture of stupidity and arrogance..."



A British talk radio show breaks down the PrAndrew interview
"He's made himself look seriously stupid and remorseless..."
 

aftershocks

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If Andrew were in line for the throne (God forbid), I think there would have been way more heavy scrutiny on him well before now, and minding by royal courtiers and senior family members. In such an instance, bad behavior would have been ferreted out and dealt with head-on or perhaps somehow avoided.

It may have helped his course of behavior too had Andrew been allowed to marry his first love, Koo Stark. She was well-liked by the royal family and loved by Andrew before the 'naked on film' episode was uncovered. And btw, Stark was not a porn star, as popularly characterized and believed. She was just a young actress who made an unfortunate choice of agreeing to take off her clothes for one particular obscure film role.

Of course, there's no way of knowing how things might have turned out, but surely it couldn't have been any worse than the broken marriage with Fergie which possibly contributed to Andrew spiraling out of control without a loving partner by his side to help temper his worst excesses. It can't be overstated that Andrew is also not the brightest bulb amongst the royals.
 

aftershocks

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A rundown that provides more details about the various Epstein prosecutions and the instances of certain legal authorities deceptively enabling Epstein from being brought to full justice over the years. :eek: The infamous Ken Starr was even involved at one point in assisting the pedophile. Quotes by Trumpster (the pedophile's friend) are included... In fact, this video reminds us that it was during the 2016 campaign that a woman came forward to accuse and to sue Epstein of having arranged for Donald Trump, and Alan Dershowitz to sexually abuse her when she was 13. The woman later dropped her suit because she said she was threatened. Meanwhile, nothing whatsoever was done to further investigate her allegations. And of course, the claim was a blip on Trump's incredulous but very real path to the White House:

 

Sylvia

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@Prancer, I started this thread back in August and have no problem if you deem it worthy to be moved to OTBT & merged into the Prince Andrew thread (with Jeffrey Epstein's name added somewhere in the thread title) since that thread is much more active:
 

ballettmaus

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The MCC preserved the wrong surveillance video from the day of Epstein's first suicide attempt. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/surveillance-video-jeffrey-epstein-s-first-apparent-suicide-attempt-no-n1113166


But that video is now gone because MCC officials mistakenly saved footage from a different floor of the federal detention facility, prosecutors said in a court filing.

The MCC "inadvertently preserved video from the wrong tier within the MCC and as a result, video from outside the defendant’s cell on July 22-23, 2019 no longer exists," the court papers say.

The FBI made the discovery last week while reviewing a copy of the video provided by MCC officials, prosecutors said.

...

A backup video system was in place, but the requested video wasn't available due to unspecified "technical errors," the court filing says.
This doesn't look suspicious at all.
 

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