ISU Statement on Russia's war against Ukraine - Participation in international competitions of Skaters and Officials from Russia and Belarus

airgelaal

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I think IOC allowed the refugees participate and represent erm.. am not even sure what, but the refugees. I don't see why can't the Russian athletes who are not sponsored by Russia and train outside Russia (such as Kasatkina) participate whatever as refugees. Without the flag, without the anthem etc.
They can act as refugees. Then they need to publicly admit why they fled their country. This is exactly what the Russians do not want to do, but they want to keep silent.
 

TAHbKA

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They can act as refugees. Then they need to publicly admit why they fled their country. This is exactly what the Russians do not want to do, but they want to keep silent.
Think exactly Kasatkina's case.
 

MsZem

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I think IOC allowed the refugees participate and represent erm.. am not even sure what, but the refugees. I don't see why can't the Russian athletes who are not sponsored by Russia and train outside Russia (such as Kasatkina) participate whatever as refugees. Without the flag, without the anthem etc.
The refugee Olympic team - the most famous member from past Olympics is probably the Syrian swimmer Yusra Mardini.

That would be quite a statement for a Russian athlete to make. But maybe this can get Tuktamysheva to the Olympics? :saint:
 

Irina89

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I think Bach has a point. Take away the flag, the anthem, the ROC stupidity and make the athletes denounce the criminal regime in Russia. How is that helping Putin? Maybe some normal Russian will finally start seeing the truth if major names decide to publicly speak against the war...
 

reut

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I think IOC allowed the refugees participate and represent erm.. am not even sure what, but the refugees. I don't see why can't the Russian athletes who are not sponsored by Russia and train outside Russia (such as Kasatkina) participate whatever as refugees. Without the flag, without the anthem etc.
That would be fair solution. (Even if in any other context I flatly refuse to see anyone fleeing mobilisation or just "not wanting to live in putin's russia" as refugees.)

But as you can see in comments above some of us suspect that Bach wants russia back because of money (like, for example, Channel One TV-rights?). If we have russian athletes participating as refugees, Bach won't get what he wants.

Also, I don't see many ru athletes doing that to tell the truth. Although for a moment me too, I thought about such option for Liza.
 
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MsZem

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That would be fair solution. (Even if in any other context I flatly refuse to see anyone fleeing mobilisation or just "not wanting to live in putin's russia" as refugees.)
I absolutely understand that sentiment. But if you look at the members of the refugee team who competed in Tokyo, it's not unusual to have athletes who fled military service (sometimes to avoid becoming child soldiers!) and repressive regimes.
 

reut

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I absolutely understand that sentiment. But if you look at the members of the refugee team who competed in Tokyo, it's not unusual to have athletes who fled military service (sometimes to avoid becoming child soldiers!) and repressive regimes.
But we're not talking about child soldiers here, are we?
Anyways, when - and if - this direction is ever taken (that russians can participate in refugee team), we can discuss the details. Me personally, I don't see this happening. Maybe for a very small number of individuals like Kasatkina (give her Swiss citizenship already! <- that was a joke).
 

airgelaal

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My problem with russian athletes is that they were fine with the regime until they were banned from competition. They did not refuse to visit Crimea after 2014, for example. I remember that this summer the Moskvina group had a training camp in Abkhazia. They do not care about the laws of the civilized world.
 

Frau Muller

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How many of the known Russian figure skaters (who haven’t switched countries yet) even qualify according for Bach’s proposal? I can think of one ice-dance team: “Nepotism Baby of the Century, Diana Davis” - as termed by v-logger These Are the Blades of our Lives - and Davis’ husband, Gleb Smolkin.

But then there’s the association with her mother which, IMO, nullifies any possibility that Davis/Smolkin could be allowed through Bach’s proposal…even if D/S would vocally denounce Russia.
 

airgelaal

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I can't remember many russian skaters who have been successful in other countries. I mean those who moved to train in another country. Only Anisina, and probably Medvedeva or Kurakova. All the rest remain to train in russia. And now no one is in a hurry to leave the country, because they know that the results will not be the same.
 

SkateFanBerlin

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As a German resident married to a German Bach's proposal sickens me. More trips for Thomas to Russian dachas in, let's say, Nice or Gstad. Reading this thread the number ways Russians have for circumventing the rules and downright cheating is staggering. Sick of their antics hanging over every event. Ban them from the ISU and let them form their own international association for their chums.
 

MsZem

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But we're not talking about child soldiers here, are we?
We're not talking about only child soldiers in the refugee team, either.

I can't remember many russian skaters who have been successful in other countries. I mean those who moved to train in another country. Only Anisina, and probably Medvedeva or Kurakova. All the rest remain to train in russia. And now no one is in a hurry to leave the country, because they know that the results will not be the same.
Well, back in the day Tarasova and Moskvina were based in the US. Wasn't Yagudin with Tarasova in Simsbury when he won in SLC?

And Ksenia Makarova was based in the US, of course, and is now an American citizen.
 

PRlady

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I can't remember many russian skaters who have been successful in other countries. I mean those who moved to train in another country. Only Anisina, and probably Medvedeva or Kurakova. All the rest remain to train in russia. And now no one is in a hurry to leave the country, because they know that the results will not be the same.
Denis Petukov, Peter Tschernychev, Ksenia Makarova (I’m probably misspelling them all.) procuring a Russian partner in ice dance was so common here we called it “rent-a-Russian.”
 

airgelaal

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That's why I wrote "of course" ;)

Evgeniia Lopareva, then. She and Brissaud seem to be on the way up.
Maybe in the future.
I'm talking about what we've been hearing for years about how strong russian skaters are. We have been hearing for years that the participants of the russian Championship are stronger than the participants of the World Championship. But why, then, are there no serious successes for those who move to other countries? At the same time, we can recall many successful examples from other countries.
 

MsZem

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Maybe in the future.
I'm talking about what we've been hearing for years about how strong russian skaters are. We have been hearing for years that the participants of the russian Championship are stronger than the participants of the World Championship. But why, then, are there no serious successes for those who move to other countries? At the same time, we can recall many successful examples from other countries.
If we don't count those who grew up in the US, those who competed in the past, and those who are still in the earlyish stages of their career, I'm not sure who that leaves. How many successful Russian skaters have moved to other countries in recent years? It's been more feasible financially to stay where they were.

Also, not finding success after moving elsewhere doesn't necessarily mean something shady was going on in the original training location. Carolina Kostner went to Frank Carroll and turned right back around within months. Tomas Verner went to Canada and didn't last all that long either. Some people are more comfortable in familiar surroundings.
 

airgelaal

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If we don't count those who grew up in the US, those who competed in the past, and those who are still in the earlyish stages of their career, I'm not sure who that leaves. How many successful Russian skaters have moved to other countries in recent years? It's been more feasible financially to stay where they were.

Also, not finding success after moving elsewhere doesn't necessarily mean something shady was going on in the original training location. Carolina Kostner went to Frank Carroll and turned right back around within months. Tomas Verner went to Canada and didn't last all that long either. Some people are more comfortable in familiar surroundings.
I just want to say that russian skaters are used to train at home and are not able to successfully train in other countries. That is why no one will leave even now.
I'm not saying it's suspicious. It's just that the Russian system gives them results, so they won't go against the system.
 

barbarafan

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And will athletes who have clearly stated they do not support the war (few as they are) even be selected by their national federations to represent Russia? Really WTF statement from Bach. :confused:
Good Point....The list of those openly supporting the war(or massacre of civilions) as the case may be is very long. We all have pics of the Z's.....automatic elimination....We have pics of so many kissing Putin's A*s.....bang...elimination. Then there are those who are being careful of not competing in Russia lately for valid reasons, injuries etc who have not competed and some who have now left the country , some training or not who may intend to compete for another country once there year is up. Russia's right to block them needs to be taken away. I agree speaking out against the war while living in Russia could be suicide for those living in Russia and their families so each case needs to be investigated thoroughly. What a mess.
 

airgelaal

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It is absolutely normal to want to train at home, in your own country. But many choose other countries to progress. We have Shoma Uno, who won the Olympic silver when he trained in Japan and the bronze when he trained in Switzerland. Skaters from all over the world train in Montreal and their results do not get worse. Are there such successful examples among russian figure skaters?
As for me, they will never agree to any conditions if they need to leave russia.
 

screech

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Russian athletes who do not support the country's invasion of Ukraine may be allowed back into international competition, the International Olympic Committee (IOC) President Thomas Bach has hinted - sparking an angry reaction from Russian politicians and sports officials.
In the wake of Russia's invasion of Ukraine, the IOC issued guidance to sports governing bodies in February to remove Russian and Belarusian athletes from competition, but Bach has now outlined a different approach in speaking to Italian newspaper Corriere della Sera.
"It is not about necessarily having Russia back," said Bach ... "It's about having athletes with a Russian passport who do not support the war back in competition."

Anyone else anticipating Putin to 'allow' athletes to publicly disavow the war in advance of Games, while continuing to voice support him in private, as long as they swear to support him publicly again once the Games are done?
 

VGThuy

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I'm not surprised with Bach's comments. I had a feeling he really cared about Russian interests during the Sochi opening ceremonies when he talked about not letting "political pressures" affect whether or not the Games would take place...of course, at the time, the biggest issues being discussed were human rights issues, especially LGBTQ rights, so that was more easily brushed off for most people. However, who knew a full-blown invasion could still inspire Bach to find a way around a blanket ban? I guess the violence against Georgia and the invasion of Crimea should have told us but the latter was going on during the whole ROC and OAR thing was happening and drug issues seemed to have "taken care of things" enough even if most people were dissatisfied with what the IOC came up with.
 

Karen-W

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It is absolutely normal to want to train at home, in your own country. But many choose other countries to progress. We have Shoma Uno, who won the Olympic silver when he trained in Japan and the bronze when he trained in Switzerland. Skaters from all over the world train in Montreal and their results do not get worse. Are there such successful examples among russian figure skaters?
As for me, they will never agree to any conditions if they need to leave russia.
Well, one could argue that Davis/Smolkin have had great success competing for Russia while training in the US. But, right now, they are the only elite Russian skaters of whom I can think of that fit that bill.

My bigger concern is for skaters who hold Russian passports, but are already competing for other countries, especially junior level skaters. Artem Markelov has been partnered with Leah Neset for a few years now, but it's going to be a challenge for him to compete internationally as long as he holds a Russian passport when countries are refusing visas to anyone with one of those - and he's years off from getting a US passport. How many other skaters are in a similar situation? Alisa Efimova, Sasha Korovin, Daria Danilova, Nika Osipova, Anton Spiridonov, those are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head. I'd like to see what Bach is going to do to work with Russian-born athletes who were already out of the country before Putin decided to go full-throttle delusional imperialistic dictator on the world.
 

MacMadame

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Well, back in the day Tarasova and Moskvina were based in the US. Wasn't Yagudin with Tarasova in Simsbury when he won in SLC?
SLC was 20 years ago and pre-IJS. For figure skating, that's ancient history. :D Back then, there weren't good facilities in Russia and many Russians lived and trained elsewhere. That hasn't been the situation in Russia for a while now.

Note: I am not necessarily agreeing that Russians can't get results if they move out of Russia. I don't know enough about all their skaters' training and results to say one way or another. I'm just saying that these results are just too far in the past to prove or disprove anything about Russian skaters now.
 

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