ISU Congress

Rock2

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,701
It was fun watching Zagitova reel off the jumps in the last half. Unfortunately the first half was a snooze (IMHO).

Well, ya.

Many complain about this, although for some reason choose not to account for part of the problem being her average choreo, unremarkable spinning, poor basic skating and collapsed line. * shrug *
If you don't like the music you're essentially checked out.

So since we're rewarding mediocrity in the other elements we have little choice other than to spread them out.

Give me some footwork a la Chan, Kozuka, Sato, Buttle...a Nikodinov layback, any Ruh or Krieg spin, a Rippon combo spin and I'd be rivetted.
 

kwanfan1818

RIP D-10
Messages
34,121
Um let's see if we apply the new system to the Nebelhorn 2017 Pairs Results

01. RUS (already qualified)
02. GER (not competing for spots because S&M were already at 2017 worlds final)
03. AUS (already qualified)
04. AUT (wins 1 spot)
05. GER (wins 1 spot)
06. PRK (already qualified)
07. USA (wins 1 spot)
08. ISR (wins 1 spot)

However CHN would have sent Peng/Jin to compete to get their 3rd spot and I think the odds of them placing higher than Conners/Krasnopolski would be very high so ISR will likely had lost the final spot available at Nebelhorn and also losing a chance to qualify for the team event.
Got it -- KOR weren't on the cusp, but did get a host spot, leaving ISR on the cusp.
 

zebobes

Active Member
Messages
572
Thank you. I found it. Though it says it has to be a double or triple flip. So does that mean guys are limited to one quad now?
What what WHAT?? How come I didn't hear about this proposal?! Only one Quad in the short now?

Edit: I looked up the proposal, and I'm pretty sure that you were looking at the Junior requirements, especially since the combination jump has to include a double or a triple or two triple jumps.
 
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Willin

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,236
So basically all the technical rules were voted as a whole package, that's why they had a previous discussion on them during the first day and that's why they made the ammendment to allow at least one repetition for quads, after the huge discussion on that proposal. Will this be called the Chen rule??

Other notable technical rules approved:

*Projection is now a separate bullet for the PE component.
* 10 in PCS is only for outstanding routines (Of course how you determine what is outstadning and what's not is still way subjective:rolleyes:).
Ah, yes, the good old "we're trying to make PCS better" when they actually do nothing of any meaning. If anything I say this encourages judges to give 10's more - I'd say outstanding is a whole lot more subjective than whatever they were using before.

I also don't think 10's were the problem - I think it was all the 9-9.5s they were giving out to skaters who obviously didn't deserve them.
*The skaters now have 20 seconds after a music malfunction to go to the referee.
A reasonable proposal, but I wonder what prompted it...
*Half loops between 2 listed jumps now will be cauled Euler and will have their own SOV.
Again, I wonder what prompted this. I don't think I'll have an opinion on it until I see this in action.
*Sequence jumps will only be considered when its a jump + Axel jump combo.
This wording makes a lot more sense that what I'd originally heard. It makes sense now.
* No more requirement of the preceded steps before the solo jump in the SP. :rolleyes::rolleyes::slinkaway:wall::wall:
I agree that I'm against this change, but since they were ignoring it anyways I don't see why they should keep the rule.
*Short dances are now called Rhythm Dances :shuffle:
Why though...
I liked them being called the Short Dance - it made things a lot more clearer to fans who don't follow Ice Dance as it was an obvious parallel to the structure of singles skating.

Well, ya.

Many complain about this, although for some reason choose not to account for part of the problem being her average choreo, unremarkable spinning, poor basic skating and collapsed line. * shrug *
If you don't like the music you're essentially checked out.

So since we're rewarding mediocrity in the other elements we have little choice other than to spread them out.

Give me some footwork a la Chan, Kozuka, Sato, Buttle...a Nikodinov layback, any Ruh or Krieg spin, a Rippon combo spin and I'd be rivetted.
I mean, I and a few other users (and some of the commentators on NBC) did call her out on this, but it didn't take off since her supporters couldn't really argue against any of those comments.

On the other hand they could argue about back-loading since it's technically legal.
 

caseyedwards

Well-Known Member
Messages
16,726
All the people who used to say figure skating is more than jumps now say an only spins and steps first half is doing nothing!! I always believed it was doing nothing!
 

SmallFairy

#teamtrainwreck #teamjapan
Messages
12,533
*Half loops between 2 listed jumps now will be cauled Euler and will have their own SOV.
This is saving the layout of my new program! Just yesterday I was crushed when I was told the euler would count as a real loop:lol:

* No more requirement of the preceded steps before the solo jump in the SP. :rolleyes::rolleyes::slinkaway:wall::wall:
Well, the judges never cared so I guess it doesn't make a difference:p

* 20 pairs advance to the final at Worlds !!:cheer2:

Whoa!!! :cheer2:


* and of course men can now wear tights:encore:


YEEEEEES! #aronrule #dmitrevrule
 

nimi

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,681
I'm reading the SYWTWFS summary of day 4 and the pairs are now allowed to do lifts with more than 3.5 rotations? And they can do show style moves where the guy is swinging his partner around, by holding her just by her neck/feet/hands, which also used to be illegal? And all lifts in FS must be from different groups in FS (also in seniors) so no more programs with 2 lasso lifts?
Whoah. Those are pretty significant changes! :watch:
 

Aussie Willy

Hates both vegemite and peanut butter
Messages
24,747
I have no problem with them getting rid of the steps before solo jump in the SP. From a judging perspective it is one of the easier things to overlook when looking at the GOE. Also from video cutting it is easy to not put that into the clip for the judges because you can't always pre-empt it, even off the PPC.
 

Weve3

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,301
*Short dances are now called Rhythm Dances :shuffle:
I don't mind that change, it's a helpful description to educate the casual viewer.

I know … most loyal fans will say who gives a hoot about the casual viewer... :cold:
 
C

casken

Guest
I'm reading the SYWTWFS summary of day 4 and the pairs are now allowed to do lifts with more than 3.5 rotations? And they can do show style moves where the guy is swinging his partner around, by holding her just by her neck/feet/hands, which also used to be illegal? And all lifts in FS must be from different groups in FS (also in seniors) so no more programs with 2 lasso lifts?
Whoah. Those are pretty significant changes! :watch:

You're right. According to the wording, headbangers would be allowed now?

Even lying on the ice is fine now? That's far beyond allowing knee slides in ice dance again.
 

ananis

Member
Messages
70
*Half loops between 2 listed jumps now will be cauled Euler and will have their own SOV. *Sequence jumps will only be considered when its a jump + Axel jump combo.[/QUOTE said:
So now when doing a 2F-Euler-2S for example, this will not count as a sequence anymore? Will it be a 3-jump combo and will get full value of all jumps unlike before that was getting a reduction of 10% i think?
And the sequence with the Axel must not include any hopping in between and will have this 10% reduction of value?
Thanks
 

Weve3

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,301
I'm reading the SYWTWFS summary of day 4 and the pairs are now allowed to do lifts with more than 3.5 rotations? And they can do show style moves where the guy is swinging his partner around, by holding her just by her neck/feet/hands, which also used to be illegal? And all lifts in FS must be from different groups in FS (also in seniors) so no more programs with 2 lasso lifts?
Whoah. Those are pretty significant changes! :watch:
You're right. According to the wording, headbangers would be allowed now?

Even lying on the ice is fine now? That's far beyond allowing knee slides in ice dance again.
I'm not really surprised they gave some of this stuff the green light, but you know, "it's all fun and games until someone gets hurt." Hopefully, that doesn't happen because if it does, they'll take it out immediately and be forced to explain why they allowed it in the first place. :wideeyes:
 

starrynight

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,001
The rule changes for pairs lifts seem like pairs is about to have a major overhaul?

Am I correct in interpreting it to mean that many show style/adagio pairs lifts like the headbanger will be allowed in competition?

No doubt some of the more brave acrobatic pairs skaters will be looking forward to their time to shine now.
 

aftershocks

Banned Member
Messages
17,335
I'm reading the SYWTWFS summary of day 4 and the pairs are now allowed to do lifts with more than 3.5 rotations? And they can do show style moves where the guy is swinging his partner around, by holding her just by her neck/feet/hands, which also used to be illegal? And all lifts in FS must be from different groups in FS (also in seniors) so no more programs with 2 lasso lifts?
Whoah. Those are pretty significant changes! :watch:

Wowza! Wowzers! :watch: :encore: I can't wait to see the creative possibilities this may unleash!

Well, there was a lot of excitement surrounding James/Cipres' 2016-2017 Earned It sp. There was the boffo 'leap of faith' move suggested by Jeremy Barrett that he used to perform with Caydee Denney:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rEWL-Mb8XI

Here's former partners Castelli/Tran in an exhibition during which the 'swinging partner by the neck move' is sexily demonstrated starting in a sequence of moves at 2:20. The entire program is fun to watch, with some other exciting moves at 1:24 and 1:52 :swoon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVAqIyTNpCU

This blast from the past of hot sexy chemistry and cool moves is a big reason why I continue to love watching this former pair. The entire program is thrilling, especially check out the upside down, leg split entry into the 'Look, Ma, no hands' move at 2:05, and the variation swing move at 3:18 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsS7n3Vpybs

And here's another inventive exhibition from the same pair: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOB8Jhydk44

The headbanger move by J/C at 3:58 in this exhibition is fabulous, but maybe their ending 'no-hands spinning with partner on top of head' move might be taking things too far. ;) I think they're the only pair who are doing that particular variation move in exhibition: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCpQoT2r7Uw

A lovely demonstration of lifts and cool moves by a young adagio pair team, Artem & Darya Fadeevs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_19_xzwaIg :inavoid:

And this adagio couple: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n11UbueyVFc :watch:

Here's an interesting article I missed in the lead-up to the Olympics which actually foreshadows the pairs rules change, with a focus unsurprisingly, on James/Cipres and Savchenko/Massot discussing the revolutionary influence of ice dance on pairs programs that 'mix heart with cool dance grooves and acrobatics':
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-era-with-disturbed-dance-moves-idUSKCN1FY0BH
 
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VGThuy

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Messages
35,221
I really do prefer the name "rhythm dance" over "short dance". I find it a lot more descriptive. I think I would like "short dance" if the free dance was called "long dance".
 

Dobre

Well-Known Member
Messages
10,968
I liked them being called the Short Dance - it made things a lot more clearer to fans who don't follow Ice Dance as it was an obvious parallel to the structure of singles skating.

I could certainly be wrong, but I would assume precisely because it made the short dance sound like it was parallel to a short program in pairs & singles. And it's not. There are some very strong differences between an SD and an SP that many fans either disregard or don't seem to "get." It's a required rhythm. It's not a negative to select a piece of music that fits within the same required rhythm as everyone else; it's a requirement and a plus. This name makes that difference more clear for novice viewers. (Though it has an unfortunate connotation so I'm not sure I prefer the name. But I appreciate the clarification that it is a different beast than a short program).
 

DimaToe

Retired by Frank Carroll
Messages
5,512
At the end of the day I’m glad that whatever many changes are approved that at least TPTB try making some sort of an effor to progress the sport. When compared to rhythmic and artistic gym Ice skating has made very little changes since the introduction of IJS. So I’m excited to see this trial and error that will happen in this Olympic cycle and hopefully that leads to positive and equal change in how the ISU treats this sport in the future.
 

Dobre

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Messages
10,968
Even lying on the ice is fine now? That's far beyond allowing knee slides in ice dance again.

They have to keep moving and perform it in unison, though, correct? (That was my interpretation of what someone said in the dance technical requirements thread earlier). So still no "dying" on the ice. I can see it being a bit of a short-term gimmick, but I'm looking forward to seeing what kinds of new movement we are going to get with this and the other new dance rules.
 

Aussie Willy

Hates both vegemite and peanut butter
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24,747
I don't mind that change, it's a helpful description to educate the casual viewer.

I know … most loyal fans will say who gives a hoot about the casual viewer... :cold:
Most casual viewers wouldn't give a crap anyway.

I do think Rhythm Dance is a better description than Short Dance.
 

Coco

Rotating while Russian!
Messages
16,433
@ananis I believe a change was made a few years back to count half loops as jumps, making the old fashioned series of jump-1/2 loop - flip or salchow a three jump combination.

What is being changed now is that they have created a 7th type of jump - a euler. So the 1/2 loop will no longer count as a loop. I believe this matters now because of another rule change a few years back that dealt with limitations on repeating jumps with 2 or less rotations.

I'm pretty sure I butchered that, as sure as I am that someone will correct me and provide the right information :)

I for one am sad to see the steps before the solo jump being eliminated. They are totally admitting judges weren't getting it done with this element. Rather than make the callers award the steps a level, they are trashing the whole thing.

It's interesting, though. Success in IJS programs really depends on being able to do difficult entrances, be they short or simply full of complex transitions, into jumps. It's a shame none of the skaters, particularly juniors, will have this element to track their progress in this area.
 

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