Insurrectionists and subversives: Trump and his supporters (Thread for all things Trump)

skatemomaz

Resist
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5,739
That’s reaching.
OK, aside from the voter id which is problematic for the reasons @skatingguy outlined. How about the severe limits placed around mail in voting, extended hours voting, extended days voting? Why is it now a crime to hand out water and food to people waiting for hours to exercise their constitutional right to vote? Why are voting sites being disproportionately removed from areas where a higher density of people of color reside? Why is it necessary to make voting harder? It is our constitutional right and this country should be doing everything possible to make it accessible and as easy as possible.

Don't throw bullshit cries of voter fraud at me. It's already been shown to be extremely rare and the top security experts have rated the 2020 the most secure election ever.
 
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caseyedwards

Well-Known Member
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16,413
OK, aside from the voter id which is problematic for the reasons @skatingguy outlined. How about the severe limits placed around mail in voting, extended hours voting, extended days voting? Why is it now a crime to hand out water and food to people waiting for hours to exercise their constitutional right to vote? Why are voting sites being disproportionately removed from areas where a higher density of people of color reside? Why is it necessary to make voting harder? It is our constitutional right and this country should be doing everything possible to make it accessible and as easy as possible.

Don't throw bullshit cries of voter fraud at me. It's already been shown to be extremely rare and the top security experts have rated the 2020 the most secure election ever.
So much of the expansion of vote by mail was ********* oriented. The ********* is over. There are many vaccines now. There is no reason not to go back to pre ********* voting rules. Why does there need to be election months now?

Absentee
Early
Election Day

It’s a crime for political activists to gift things to voters waiting in line. All the election officials can give out food and water.
 

caseyedwards

Well-Known Member
Messages
16,413
Alternatively, it encourages white people to look at their own racism. Most people are racist, even unconsciously.

I have personal experience of that myself. I grew up in a northern Canadian and mining town. There was a reserve close to town. First Nations people would come into town. They had their own coffee shop that whites didn't go to. They had their own section at the back of the two town bars. On welfare day, they would splurge on KFC (not many food choices in the town). Sometimes First Nations people would wrestle on the sidewalks outside the bar. Sometimes they would steal perfume from my dad's drug store - he was kind in that he never called the cops on them. And they made beautiful souveniers for his store - suede the name of the two beaded on top, and little mukluks hanging from them (lots of tourists came to town in the summer for fishing).

I assume there was a residential school nearby, because First Nations did not attend our school. I remember one native-looking person who came to our school, and being so shocked. I can still see him, sitting in the back corner of class, looking so very uncomfortable.

In any case, this was before knowledge of residential schools and the harms of the Indian Act had become public knowledge. For the most part we just accepted the way things were. We didn't wonder where the First Nations lived, or how they lived, or think about their welfare. Or question why they had such problems with alcohol.

Racism can operate blindly in such a context. The status quo is thus maintained, and no one questions it.
I don’t support teaching kids there is unconscious racism. You are setting up an environment where all interactions between people are racial! Of of them. Everything. If there is a group of 3 whites and 1 minority and they are brainstorming ideas and all the minorities ideas are rejected the whites could believe they are genuinely bad ideas but all unconscious bias training and CRT says it was all because of racism! It’s so horrible.

Canada is not a place now where those very old laws would be passed now and it should not be treated as such. The whites largely in charge of Canada now should not be considered like the whites of decades and decades ago! Who largely felt they were being progressive and anti racist
 

DORISPULASKI

Watching submarine races
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12,570
Does the author say that people of color can be racist?
The author describes in detail how he himself had racist ideas. And he is a person of color. So of course.


Try at least reading the excerpt. (Scroll down on the Amazon page.)

It annoys the heck out of me to hear people demonizing a book and a theory they have never read about themselves.

You can borrow a copy from the library for free.
 

Aussie Willy

Hates both vegemite and peanut butter
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24,588
Because it's just so hard to show an id when voting...................
We don't have to show an ID in Australia when voting. Turn up, tell them your name, they tick it off the role and you vote. Or do a postal vote before polling day. When you do that you have to provide a signature and someone has to witness it. But it so easy to vote and no-one is taken off the roles or has restrictions placed on how they can do it.

And funnily enough, we have very little instances of voter fraud.
 

ballettmaus

Well-Known Member
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16,361
We don't have to show an ID in Australia when voting.
We do in Germany but you're required by law to have a valid ID. You're also required to register the address of your primary residence and that's how they automatically register you to vote and send you a notification 6 or so weeks before Election Day (which they need to change, too, because it makes voting by mail a little tight nowadays, especially if you're mailing in the ballot from a foreign country. I'm sure it was fine once upon a time but it's not anymore since the postal service has gotten way worse over the past few years, at least in Berlin).
 

BlueRidge

AYS's snark-sponge
Messages
58,470
The author describes in detail how he himself had racist ideas. And he is a person of color. So of course.


Try at least reading the excerpt. (Scroll down on the Amazon page.)

It annoys the heck out of me to hear people demonizing a book and a theory they have never read about themselves.

You can borrow a copy from the library for free.
I read Kendi's other book, History of Racist Ideas in America I got it from the library. :D

He talks about having racist ideas himself. He defines ideas as racist rather than people who can hold the ideas or they can change their ideas.

I've read a lot about the history of race and racism in the United States and in none of my reading did I ever come across the term "Critical Race Theory." Suddenly it is everywhere because rightwingers are labeling any discussion of race and racism as "Critical Race Theory." And then people who listen to rightwing media are sure they know that Critical Race Theory is a hate-filled concept that demonizes individuals because they are white. And then they are sure that all discussion of race and racism is just spewing hate toward white individuals and toward our country.

Its so disheartening to see this kind of process playing out.
 

demetriosj

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2,108
I don't know how the author defines racism, but generally a definition of racism includes a reference to power within the society in question. In some definitions individuals belonging to the dominant group can be racist, and individuals belonging to subdominant groups cannot. Individuals in the subdominant group are capable of being bigots, and racism is a form of bigotry.

Woke gobbledygook.

Racism is judging someone by the color of their skin.
 
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demetriosj

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2,108
Heck, I'm not poor & I don't have photo ID because I don't own a car, so I don't have driver's license, and I'm not planing on international travel so I don't have a passport either.

That's your problem. It's not a matter of your vote being suppressed and needing to "dismantle" the system.
 

demetriosj

Well-Known Member
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2,108
How ‘bout we stop calling it “critical race theory” and call it “What’s Goin’ On”?
It seems me that racists get REAL uncomfortable about talking about racism. That’s what the push against CRT is mostly about.

I think most parents, of all races, are uncomfortable with their children being taught that people should be judged by the color of their skin. CRT focuses everything on race.
 

DORISPULASKI

Watching submarine races
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12,570
The two most vile things in this raft of voting laws: in Texas there are far fewer voting places and voting machines per 100,000 population for urban areas, like Houston, than for rural areas. As a result, even before the *********, lines could be as much as 5 or 6 hours long in urban areas. The new voting restrictions on date and time mean those lines will be even longer. They were 6 hours long for a primary during the *********.

There will be fewer places next year and fewer days and shorter hours to use them. Lines will be even longer.

Now add to that that you can't even give people water..people will pass out, others may die . It is reminiscent of the way people are arrested for leaving water for border crossers.


And the people in those lines suffering will be overwhelmingly people of color. And the legislatures who passed those laws either do not think those people are fully human, (and so they are racists) or they are sociopaths who are happy to make other people suffer so long as they can stay in power.

The second will be the official death of democracy, if the legislatures actually do it. If the legislature thinks, for whatever reason, there was "fraud," they can overturn the election. It does not require any proof of fraud. So that's the end of it. If the party In power is voted out, they can just declare themselves winners and, Good morning, we are in Belarus :cry:
 
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demetriosj

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2,108
How about the severe limits placed around mail in voting, extended hours voting, extended days voting? Why is it now a crime to hand out water and food to people waiting for hours to exercise their constitutional right to vote? Why are voting sites being disproportionately removed from areas where a higher density of people of color reside? Why is it necessary to make voting harder?

None of this is true.
 

demetriosj

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2,108
Now add to that that you can't even give people water..people will pass out, others may die . It is reminiscent of the way people are arrested for leaving water for border crossers.

People in line may die waiting to vote because they can't get water??!! That's bull. People in line can receive water from election officials as much as they want, just not from political activists trying to gift water.
 

DORISPULASKI

Watching submarine races
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12,570
I think most parents, of all races, are uncomfortable with their children being taught that people should be judged by the color of their skin. CRT focuses everything on race.
But that is not what is being taught at all. Quit listening to what others tell you is in the works of Ibram Kendi or the 1619 project and just read them for yourself. Not just one page each, but the whole books. "Critical Race Theory" is not a big thing in either project. Both are quite short and written for ordinary readers like myself.

Critical Race Theory is a (college or graduate school) area of study for legal folk about the intersection of race and the laws.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_race_theory .

If you want to read about it, the work of Professor Kimberlé Crenshaw might be a good place to start.
 

BlueRidge

AYS's snark-sponge
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58,470
With regard to Kendi's views, I enjoyed reading the book because I agreed with him on somethings and disagreed on others and it made for a very interesting read.

There is not one way to think about race and racism of course, but many voices that are interesting to consider.
 

DORISPULASKI

Watching submarine races
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12,570
People in line may die waiting to vote because they can't get water??!! That's bull. People in line can receive water from election officials as much as they want, just not from political activists trying to gift water.
Yes? But the election officials are not constrained to give anyone water. Trust me, if I had to wait 6 to 10 hours standing in the hot sun to vote, I would dehydrate and pass out. Die? It would depend on whether anyone called 911.


At the most extreme of heat, you are asking people to carry around 30 cups, (15 pints) or 15 pounds of water for a day of waiting in line.
 

DORISPULASKI

Watching submarine races
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12,570
With regard to Kendi's views, I enjoyed reading the book because I agreed with him on somethings and disagreed on others and it made for a very interesting read.

There is not one way to think about race and racism of course, but many voices that are interesting to consider.
I have not read his first book yet, but I just borrowed it from the library. I found the second interesting and thought- provoking.
 

skatemomaz

Resist
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5,739
None of this is true.
All of it is true.
People in line may die waiting to vote because they can't get water??!! That's bull. People in line can receive water from election officials as much as they want, just not from political activists trying to gift water.
People giving out water are not doing anything more than handing people water, they aren't asking people to vote for their candidate, they aren't asking party affiliation and only giving water to those they agree with. They see a need when people are waiting for hours in the heat and cold and doing something to help the situation. I've been one of those people handing out water on election day. Arizona is still damn hot in November and there certainly aren't election officials out there doing this. They have more important work to do to keep the lines moving.
 

MacMadame

Staying at home
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41,360
That’s reaching.
Ooh, I see the @demetriosj greatest hits parade has circled back to "anyone can get voter id!" Did you get tired of misrepresenting Critical Race Theory? ;)

Yes? But the election officials are not constrained to give anyone water.
And they don't do it. Anywhere in the US that I've seen. (Thought it's a big country so there may be one or two places that do it that I haven't heard of.)
 

overedge

G.O.A.T.
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30,091
I think most parents, of all races, are uncomfortable with their children being taught that people should be judged by the color of their skin. CRT focuses everything on race.

You seem to know a lot about CRT for someone who is asking for summaries of books about it.

Another very good book is Emmanuel Acho's Uncomfortable Conversations With a Black Man, which has an excellent discussion of systemic and institutional racism.
 

Spikefan

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1,142
I don’t know all of the details on the food and water laws. There has to be a way to work around that part of it, let’s get creative. If food trucks got permits for the parking lots and streets next to polling places why couldn’t they sell water and pizza for a penny? Does the GOP plan to stand against small business? (I know the answer in this scenario but let’s see them try.) Such permits are usually approved by the city and these cities are generally Dem run.
 

ErikWilliam

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548
I don’t know all of the details on the food and water laws. There has to be a way to work around that part of it, let’s get creative. If food trucks got permits for the parking lots and streets next to polling places why couldn’t they sell water and pizza for a penny? Does the GOP plan to stand against small business? (I know the answer in this scenario but let’s see them try.) Such permits are usually approved by the city and these cities are generally Dem run.
I'm active in my local Democratic Party, and I suggested doing exactly that, "selling" water or food for a penny. And supplying a "tip" jar filled with pennies that anyone can use to get what they need. Some scoffed and rolled their eyes at me, but I honestly don't know why that would be a felony? In my neighborhood (George Floyd's childhood home) voting is at a church. I'd love to see TX arrest and sue churches for providing this to voters.
 

once_upon

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18,642
My cousins who live in a very affluent neighborhood in Iowa, posted pictures of a large school gymnasium (fairly new high school with both gymnasium and auditorium) with at least 20 feet between voting machines saying that it's easy to vote. Long lines are fake news. Saying voter IDs are readily available. I tried to explain the difficulties encountered by many people, including what it costs to prove who you are, poverty levels prevent you from traveling, work (especially minimum wage jobs) don't allow you to vote, ability to read, child care demands and so much more. Living in their Ivory Towers of $500,000 -1.5 million dollar homes, in one of the richest school districts in Iowa they are totally clueless as to the real world problems. And Fox News certainly won't tell them what reality looks like.
 

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