Insurrectionists and subversives: Trump and his supporters (Thread for all things Trump)

Allskate

Well-Known Member
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11,840
You do understand that Hitler didn't start by invading other countries and murdering millions of people. If you wait until something is at the scale of the holocaust to call out the danger means you will always be too late.
:rolleyes: You do understand that I recently made this point in this very thread, right? I was specific in my comparison and its significance, and I have said that we should be vigilant.

But, calling something a Nazi salute when it isn't is not the same thing, which is how this current discussion started. IMO, if people are going to compare two things, then they should be accurate and they should explain the significance of the comparison. There may be some similarities, but if we are going to make comparisons, then be accurate and engage in critical thinking. So many people call things or people Nazi or Hitler with little or no analysis that it can sometimes trivialize Nazis and Hitler and also just makes others ignore what they are saying. Plus, unless we understand the complexities and nuances of a particular group, we cannot counter them and prevent their dangerous beliefs and actions from spreading. QAnon believers and their conspiracy theories are different in many ways from Nazis and from other right wing extremist groups. QAnon is based on a whacko theory that there are elite Satan-worshipping pedophiles in government, business and the media. Their catchphrase and the associated music and arm gesture may be evocative of the "Heil Hitler" phrase and gesture, but it is not the same.
 

caseyedwards

Well-Known Member
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18,225
I wonder if people in Florida will try to lure immigrants with construction skills to help rebuild areas hit hard by Ian. It looks like there will be a high demand for laborers and construction workers there, probably for several years.
Congress could pass a bill authorizing more visas if they really believe they need immigrants to do it. But if they did it would be about importing cheaper labor not more skilled labor
 

Vagabond

Well-Known Member
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22,802
Why would the DOJ have to pay for this when Trump is the plaintiff and is obligated to pay for any expenses related to this?
The DOJ will not have to pay for this.


(Not gifted; the salient information is available elsewhere.)

Since that review is no longer delaying or diverting the criminal inquiry, it is not clear what benefits remain for Mr. Trump.

For one, a special master will cost a lot of money. Judge Cannon rejected Mr. Trump’s proposal that taxpayers should foot half the bill of the review, instead saying he would be solely responsible. That includes the full cost of a vendor who will scan all the materials, as well as support staff for Judge Dearie, like an assistant who bills $500 an hour.

If the PAC won't pay for the vendor, then Trump will have to find some other way of covering the cost. If he does not do so, then the foreseeable result will be that Judge Cannon will dismiss the case.
 

MacMadame

Doing all the things
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51,376
There is learning from history and there is looking for history to repeat itself.
I'm not looking. It's slapping me in the face to get my attention.

I saw so many liberal columnists going "oh look Nazism" about that rally it alarmed me. Group think and failure to think. Liberals do it too.
Or maybe people look at the same thing and come to different conclusions. Nah, it must be because anyone who disagrees is an idiot who isn't thinking. :rolleyes:

Look, what some of us are trying to say is that we are on a dangerous path and we need to not minimize it which is what happens when you say "oh, it's not really like the early days of the Nazi party." Even when it is. There are many, many parallels between the two, and instead of doing something about it, people are ignoring it or throwing up their hands in defeat. Think out many lives could have been saved if people had taken steps to minimize Hilter in the early days instead of laughing at him and later ignoring him.
 

Aussie Willy

Hates both vegemite and peanut butter
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Dobre

Well-Known Member
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14,234

Vash01

Fan of Yuzuru, T&M, P&C
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53,624
I think he's probably right. But, imagine if Trump and the DOJ disagreed about the return of some of the non-classified presidential documents and Dearie ended up ruling that DOJ had to keep them and use them for now, explaining the ways in which the documents were evidence of Trump's criminal state of mind. But, I doubt Trump's attorneys would do this. The DOJ already has given Trump's attorneys copies of the potentially privileged documents and have offered to give them copies of other documents that are his personal property. The only reason they might try to make a claim of executive privilege is if they are pulling a Hail Mary and want some kind of ruling on executive privilege from the Supreme Court that might help Trump in some of the election-related cases. But, they can fight that battle in those cases.


The DOJ can't get the documents reviewed by the special master and get permission to use the remaining documents until they get a vendor. The vendors they've already talked to won't contract with Trump because they are afraid of not getting paid. So, if the DOJ is not the one who makes the initial payment, the DOJ may not get the evidence back or, at the very least, there will be more delay and more headaches while they try to find a vendor who will contract with Trump. The special master already has had to push back deadlines because of the difficulty getting a vendor.

Trump reportedly isn't the one paying the fees. A PAC is. So, I would guess the DOJ will get paid by them. If not, the DOJ will file a motion and publicly point out that Trump brought this bogus case for bogus reasons and isn't paying and Dearie will rule accordingly, once again making Trump look bad. If we're lucky, this will coincide with the New York trial where there will be proof of other financial wrongdoing by Trump. :lol:
All skate, what would I do without you? Thanks for all your inputs in this thread.
 

Dai's Blues for Klook

Well-Known Member
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1,565
Or maybe people look at the same thing and come to different conclusions. Nah, it must be because anyone who disagrees is an idiot who isn't thinking. :rolleyes:
Yes, it must be like "absurdity" and "strawman argument". :lol:

I wish I were as confident as some on here lmao
Just because you continuously repeat “critical thinking” doesn’t make the person you’re talking to wrong.
Nor can it lead to people thinking critically, as it turns out.
 
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BlueRidge

AYS's snark-sponge
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61,356
I'm not looking. It's slapping me in the face to get my attention.


Or maybe people look at the same thing and come to different conclusions. Nah, it must be because anyone who disagrees is an idiot who isn't thinking. :rolleyes:

Look, what some of us are trying to say is that we are on a dangerous path and we need to not minimize it which is what happens when you say "oh, it's not really like the early days of the Nazi party." Even when it is. There are many, many parallels between the two, and instead of doing something about it, people are ignoring it or throwing up their hands in defeat. Think out many lives could have been saved if people had taken steps to minimize Hilter in the early days instead of laughing at him and later ignoring him.

I don't think that it is necessary to equate current events with specific past history to be aware of danger and act against it.

I did it too at the beginning of the Trump presidency. "Is this the Reichstag fire?!" etc. Things just don't unfold that way.

There was one photo that made the rally look like the people's arms were at the Heil Hitler angle. But if you looked at more pictures that was just that one photo's angle. This is why I'm being an asshole. I saw many columnists saying "it looked like a Nazi rally" because of that one photo. I was curious and looked at more photos. It concerns me when something like that seems to go viral, that is one photo and everyone passes it on. That's a problem in the internet era.

You seem to be positing a litmus test, either you see Hitler in what's happening or you are not concerned enough about what is happening to stop us from barreling to WWII and the holocaust.

How is it we are still in 1922? Shouldn't it be 1936 yet? IMO, very different things are transpiring and while we need to remember what dehumanization and dictator worship etc lead to in the 1930s and 1940s we can't be tracing today's events to match them to a timeline from over a 100 years ago and see what is really happening.

Maybe you are right and after Trump steals the 2024 election (or wins it outright) or DeSantis wins it outright, he'll nullify the constitution, take all power, and we'll have the military goose-stepping to glorify him and a majority of people will be too afraid not to raise their one finger salute whenever committed Trumpists confront them, and the QAnon belief that all the leading Democrats will be executed will come to pass.

Hopefully we'll stop the subversion of democracy from happening before we find out. I think looking critically at evidence that confirms your biases will be part of the effort that stops the worst from happening.
 

Dobre

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14,234
"The Guardian: After the Jan. 6 committee identified Roger Stone’s number, they found he called former Proud Boys chair Tarrio before and after the Capitol attack, and former Oath Keepers chief Rhodes on Jan. 19 — as well as Don Jr aide Arthur Schwartz."


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"Former Turning Point USA events coordinator Adam Hageman sentenced to 66 months..."

 

sk9tingfan

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5,631
Can't help but smile if for no reason other than she attacks people for doing the exact same stuff she does, she has no empathy and is a horrible human being.
When she first came on the scene, she used to post videos showing her doing bench presses with considerable weight on her barbell. I used to dream of no one spotting her and then losing control, dropping it on her neck. :watch:
 

overedge

Mayor of Carrot City
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33,773
I've heard some absolute bonkers stuff about Trump's abilities, but this has to be in the top 100

Slightly OT but I'm reading a book about Phil Mickelson - if only to try to understand why he signed up to the Saudi Blood Money pro golf tour - and there is a very funny story in it about him wanting to be a pro baseball pitcher.

He got a tryout with a Triple A league team, hired a very well known pitching coach, and on the day of his tryout threw balls that were timed around 60 mph (MLB pitchers throw balls at around 80-90 mph and more). No one got a hit off him, but one of his friends who was watching the tryout said the batters were probably not used to pitches at the speed that they last saw in Little League :lol:
 

Allskate

Well-Known Member
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11,840
And Bennie Thompson's response that she answered some questions, indicating she still believes the election was stolen.

https://twitter.com/nicholaswu12/status/1575549302650175488 (SHPOS)
Maybe she really did believe it and still does believe it even though all the courts rejected such claims. She said she has a history of involvement with a cult. She supposedly became an anti-cult activist. But, she does seem to be quite gullible when it comes to nutty conspiracy theories.

Or, maybe she's lying and knows now that the election was not stolen and finds it politically useful to say that she does.

She reportedly began by saying that she didn't discuss her conduct with Justice Thomas. I am very doubtful that he was not aware of at least some of what she was doing. I don't think it is a coincidence that he was the only Supreme Court Justice to say that Congress should not get White House documents relating to the insurrection.

I don't think that it is necessary to equate current events with specific past history to be aware of danger and act against it.
That is very logical. I find logic and facts to be valuable and useful.
 

Aussie Willy

Hates both vegemite and peanut butter
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26,128
Maybe she really did believe it and still does believe it even though all the courts rejected such claims. She said she has a history of involvement with a cult. She supposedly became an anti-cult activist. But, she does seem to be quite gullible when it comes to nutty conspiracy theories.

Or, maybe she's lying and knows now that the election was not stolen and finds it politically useful to say that she does.

She reportedly began by saying that she didn't discuss her conduct with Justice Thomas. I am very doubtful that he was not aware of at least some of what she was doing. I don't think it is a coincidence that he was the only Supreme Court Justice to say that Congress should not get White House documents relating to the insurrection.


That is very logical. I find logic and facts to be valuable and useful.
Trump had almost everyone around him telling him he lost and he still didn't listen to them. It was politically expedient for him to do that.

As the judge said to Alex Jones, just because you believe something doesn't make it true.
 
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sk9tingfan

Well-Known Member
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5,631
Maybe she really did believe it and still does believe it even though all the courts rejected such claims. She said she has a history of involvement with a cult. She supposedly became an anti-cult activist. But, she does seem to be quite gullible when it comes to nutty conspiracy theories.

Or, maybe she's lying and knows now that the election was not stolen and finds it politically useful to say that she does.

She reportedly began by saying that she didn't discuss her conduct with Justice Thomas. I am very doubtful that he was not aware of at least some of what she was doing. I don't think it is a coincidence that he was the only Supreme Court Justice to say that Congress should not get White House documents relating to the insurrection.


That is very logical. I find logic and facts to be valuable and useful.
Ginni Thomas is full of it.
 

Aussie Willy

Hates both vegemite and peanut butter
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26,128
Oh, I think she believes it. My question is who influenced her and who used her, knowing full well that she was half a bubble off plum.
Steven Hassan (the Influence Continuum podcast) has talked about her a lot from when she was in a cult years ago. He is now equating her Trumpism these days as again being in a cult. So of course she is going to go along with what Trump says.

But the big issue with her is who she is married to and the very clear conflict of interests she and her husband have.
 

Allskate

Well-Known Member
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11,840
As the judge said to Alex Jones, just because you believe something doesn't make it true.
Of course. Unfortunately, when she says she still believes it, that probably makes other people more willing to believe it.

Although I think it's entirely possible that she is nutty enough to believe it, I do not think she was being candid and forthcoming with regard to her hubby. The statement she read seemed to be kind of dodgy and some of it was just really difficult to belief. Her husband has no interest in politics?

 

Dobre

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14,234
"DOJ tonight asked the 11th Circuit to set a fast track schedule for its full appeal of the special master review of seized Mar-a-Lago docs."

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Tennessee Man Pleads Guilty to Felony Charges For Actions During Jan. 6 Capitol Breach​

Defendant Admits Advance Planning to Interfere With Peaceful Transition of Power, Assaulting Law Enforcement Officers

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Russian Oligarch Oleg Vladimirovich Deripaska And Associates Indicted For Sanctions Evasion And Obstruction Of Justice​

 

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