Insurrectionists and subversives: Trump and his supporters (Thread for all things Trump)

once_upon

Enough
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24,614
The election in Italy, the rise of Mussolini, how the new leader is an activist in the party that evolved from Mussolini, how she believes he was the greatest political leader. The fascist movements in Hungary, Poland, the woman in France who was barely defeat by Macron. The author of the book "American Pychosis" and how in the last 70 years the Republican party has always had a faction of fascism - from McCarthy, to Tea Party to MAGA. How Mussolini threatened violence to overtake the Italian Monarchy so the King voluntarily gave over the government. Russia's "election" in the Russian controlled areas of Ukraine (which will be a sham) to prove to the world Ukrainian want Russia.

In response to @Aussie Willy
 

Aussie Willy

Hates both vegemite and peanut butter
Messages
26,288
The election in Italy, the rise of Mussolini, how the new leader is an activist in the party that evolved from Mussolini, how she believes he was the greatest political leader. The fascist movements in Hungary, Poland, the woman in France who was barely defeat by Macron. The author of the book "American Pychosis" and how in the last 70 years the Republican party has always had a faction of fascism - from McCarthy, to Tea Party to MAGA. How Mussolini threatened violence to overtake the Italian Monarchy so the King voluntarily gave over the government. Russia's "election" in the Russian controlled areas of Ukraine (which will be a sham) to prove to the world Ukrainian want Russia.

In response to @Aussie Willy
Thanks for the information. I might check it out.

Meidas Touch and Tony Michaels are saying the exact thing.
 

Theatregirl1122

Needs a nap
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27,949
But it does look like a Nazi rally to me. Which is the duck I was talking about, not the salute.

We are seeing all these warning signs but people keep explaining away why the GOP isn't sliding down the same path as the Nazi party.

If it dresses itself up to look like a duck and starts to model itself after a duck and openly discusses how much it admires the duck, one might start to suspect that the difference between it and a duck are trivial.
 

sk9tingfan

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,743
Feds demand writ of replevin (!) against former Trump trade adviser and accused misdemeanant contemnor Peter Navarro with respect to certain email accounts. Concurrently, the focus on federal property (records) turns to the COVID Pandemic and the Trump Administration's handling of this crisis.

replevin: a procedure whereby seized goods may be provisionally restored to their owner pending the outcome of an action to determine the rights of the parties concerned.

"There is no genuine dispute of fact that Dr. Navarro used at least one unofficial email account
to conduct official business, that those records are the property of the United States, and that Dr.
Navarro has refused to return the records to the United States. Indeed, his counsel has expressly
admitted as much. Because Dr. Navarro remains in possession of property that belongs to the United
States, this Court should issue a writ of replevin requiring Dr. Navarro to return what he wrongfully
continues to possess.

While serving as a presidential advisor, Defendant used at least one non-official email account,
namely a ProtonMail account,3 to send and receive messages in the course of discharging his official
duties. SMF ¶ 14. Certain of these messages were obtained by the House Select Subcommittee on
the Coronavirus Crisis (the Subcommittee) as part of its investigation into the government’s response
to the coronavirus pandemic. SMF ¶ 14 (citing Select Subcommittee on the Coronavirus Crisis, Select
Subcommittee Releases New Evidence Of Trump Administration Failure To Heed Early Pandemic
Warnings.

 

once_upon

Enough
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24,614
Whether or not the 1 finger salute is or is not the actual Nazi salute is not the issue. It's the behavior/symbol of worship of a person/ideal. The expectation that one is pledging allegiance to that leader.

In the case of Q-MAGA party similar to Nazi party, the principles of allegiance to an individual, to the belief of white supremacy, the commitment to eliminating the world of the "other", to recruitment of people to overthrow a government.

In those similarities it is a Nazi salute.
 

Dobre

Well-Known Member
Messages
14,647
Here we go . . .

Jury selection begins today in Oath Keepers seditious conspiracy trial​

Founder Steward Rhodes and four other members of his anti-government extremist group face trial in the attack on U.S. Capitol


----

Is it my imagination, or has there been zero news about the Tom Barrack trial since it started? Is this normal?
 

just tuned in

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,485
Whether or not the 1 finger salute is or is not the actual Nazi salute is not the issue. It's the behavior/symbol of worship of a person/ideal. The expectation that one is pledging allegiance to that leader.

In the case of Q-MAGA party similar to Nazi party, the principles of allegiance to an individual, to the belief of white supremacy, the commitment to eliminating the world of the "other", to recruitment of people to overthrow a government.

In those similarities it is a Nazi salute.
I kind of thought it looked like a rabid football crowd chanting they were "Number 1." And Trump is their hero quarterback.
 

BlueRidge

AYS's snark-sponge
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61,685
I kind of thought it looked like a rabid football crowd chanting they were "Number 1." And Trump is their hero quarterback.
It looked more like this than a Nazi rally for sure.

If you look at the videos of the rally, its a chunk of people close to the dais where Trump is standing who are making the QAnon sign. You'll see most of the crowd isn't doing that and you'll also see empty chairs.

This group is exactly what is described in the Washington Post article I linked to. They are part of a cult-like conspiracy phenomenon that seems to eat people's brains. They travel to many, many Trump rallies and position themselves up front. So when Trump had the QAnon music played they were right there to raise their fingers.

There is speculation as to why Trump is cozying up to them right now. I certainly think it is in part because he likes having them see him as saving the world and all that. I think there's probably also some truth to the idea that he sees them as a potential mob to act on his behalf, as happened on January 6. He's repeatedly made statements about what would happen if he were prosecuted and its possible he could call out these people in his way and they would be ready to riot on his behalf.

Here's a look at the possibilities of why this is happening https://boilingfrogs.thedispatch.com/p/q-ing-up

There is plenty that is dangerous here. Not least to the people who are taken in by the conspiracy as Michelle Goldberg says in this column: Trump’s Heartless QAnon Embrace
 

once_upon

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24,614
Maybe - most sports (football, basketball, baseball) #1 are in an upright position directed at cameras as they pan the fans, not an angle like a forward salute. But yeah.
 

VGThuy

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Messages
39,774
Feds demand writ of replevin (!) against former Trump trade adviser and accused misdemeanant contemnor Peter Navarro with respect to certain email accounts. Concurrently, the focus on federal property (records) turns to the COVID Pandemic and the Trump Administration's handling of this crisis.

replevin: a procedure whereby seized goods may be provisionally restored to their owner pending the outcome of an action to determine the rights of the parties concerned.

"There is no genuine dispute of fact that Dr. Navarro used at least one unofficial email account
to conduct official business, that those records are the property of the United States, and that Dr.
Navarro has refused to return the records to the United States. Indeed, his counsel has expressly
admitted as much. Because Dr. Navarro remains in possession of property that belongs to the United
States, this Court should issue a writ of replevin requiring Dr. Navarro to return what he wrongfully
continues to possess.

While serving as a presidential advisor, Defendant used at least one non-official email account,
namely a ProtonMail account,3 to send and receive messages in the course of discharging his official
duties. SMF ¶ 14. Certain of these messages were obtained by the House Select Subcommittee on
the Coronavirus Crisis (the Subcommittee) as part of its investigation into the government’s response
to the coronavirus pandemic. SMF ¶ 14 (citing Select Subcommittee on the Coronavirus Crisis, Select
Subcommittee Releases New Evidence Of Trump Administration Failure To Heed Early Pandemic
Warnings.


I honestly cannot read or hear "writ of replevin" without thinking of this hilarious scene in the 2010 version of True Grit:

 

sk9tingfan

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Messages
5,743
And the plot thickens with respect to Mark Meadows' involvement in the attempted seizure of voting machines in AZ and GA. Didn't it occur to these numbskulls that they left a damning trail behind them with their texts? Not a peep out of Meadows who must be cooperating with the January 6 Committee and possibly DOJ.

 

sk9tingfan

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And in the next five minutes, another update. It appears that Trump either fired Kise, the respected Florida lawyer who was representing him, or Kise voluntarily left the case because Trump did not pay him the promised upfront $3 million fee. And/or, Kise felt that he could not win a case with Trump as a client:


In the latest, he has been demoted:

 

BlueRidge

AYS's snark-sponge
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61,685
This is good:
McConnell endorses bill to prevent efforts to subvert presidential election results

Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) has endorsed a bipartisan electoral count reform bill in the Senate, giving the legislation a key boost over a similar bill the House passed last week. Both bills seek to prevent future presidents from trying to overturn election results through Congress, and were directly prompted by the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the Capitol by a pro-Trump mob seeking to stop the certification of Joe Biden’s electoral win.


The Electoral Count Reform and Presidential Transition Improvement Act, sponsored by Sens. Susan Collins (R-Maine) and Joe Manchin III (D-W.Va.), would amend the Electoral Count Act of 1887 and reaffirm that the vice president has only a ministerial role at the joint session of Congress to count electoral votes, as well as raise the threshold necessary for members of Congress to object to a state’s electors.

Congress’s process for counting their presidential electors votes was written 135 ago. The chaos that came to a head on Jan. 6 of last year certainly underscored the need for an update,” McConnell said. “The Electoral Count Act ultimately produced the right conclusion … but it’s clear the country needs a more predictable path.”
 

Allskate

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11,920
If it dresses itself up to look like a duck and starts to model itself after a duck and openly discusses how much it admires the duck, one might start to suspect that the difference between it and a duck are trivial.
Hitler invaded other countries, started a world war, and murdered millions of people. Given that some of the people who suffered as a result were my family members, I don't find the differences trivial.
The reason I'm harping on this is because I do think these are dangerous times and critical thinking is called for.
I agree. If we are going to compare people to Hitler and the Nazis, we should be accurate and precise in our comparisons. That is not to say that all comparisons are unwarranted or that we should not be vigilant, as we are living in dangerous times and things can get worse. As you say, we should engage in critical thinking, something that QAnon folks and many other Trumpsters clearly do not do.
 

sk9tingfan

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Judge Aileen Collins has clipped Special Master's wings by denying him the ability to issue interim reports on his findings. Dearie has turned around and criticized her for her actions and recommended that she reinstates this ability. does this woman not understand how patently arrogant and ridiculous she appears to the legal community and the public?

 

VGThuy

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39,774
I think some are seeing similarities to what Hitler was doing in the very beginning on a domestic level with what Trump would have been able to do and seems to have been ok with doing had there not been some protections thanks to our governmental infrastructure and our ability to still retain the rule-of-law, despite so many attempts to undermine, subvert, or overcome it. Of course, Trump's presidency wasn't close to what Nazi Germany ended up actually being by the time the death camps, concentration camps, and invasions started.
 

BlueRidge

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61,685
I just feel like at this point the comparisons are obscuring what we are dealing with rather than illuminating it. We live in such different times. It isn't that we should be less vigilant because the current authoritarian movements aren't perhaps properly named by 20th Century terms. Its just that we aren't dealing with 20th Century phenomena and we may well miss significant aspects if we are too engrossed in trying to fit the current situation to historical narratives.
 

VGThuy

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39,774
I do agree that what’s going on overall is uniquely 21st century in that it’s a huge explosion of consequences of what occurred beforehand and requires new analysis and not being boxed in by older theories and explanations, but the racism, othering, and dehumanizing of real people all seem classic.
 

Allskate

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Messages
11,920
And in the next five minutes, another update. It appears that Trump either fired Kise, the respected Florida lawyer who was representing him, or Kise voluntarily left the case because Trump did not pay him the promised upfront $3 million fee. And/or, Kise felt that he could not win a case with Trump as a client:
Lawyers take cases all the time knowing that their clients are likely to lose. Trump himself did not pay the fee. A PAC did. Kise left his law firm to be able to take this case, and it would have been really stupid for him to be willing to do that without having the fee upfront.

It may be that Trump is really mad about what happened last week. Whoever thought Dearie was a good idea for Trump probably was on the receiving end of quite the rant.

But, it may be that Trump wants Kise working on something else right now. Much of the stuff that the Trump lawyers have to do in the MAL case in the very short term isn't heavy lifting.

Judge Aileen Collins has clipped Special Master's wings by denying him the ability to issue interim reports on his findings. Dearie has turned around and criticized her for her actions and recommended that she reinstates this ability. does this woman not understand how patently arrogant and ridiculous she appears to the legal community and the public?

https://twitter.com/rgoodlaw/status/1574845012029890562
I don't think she cares. Her primary reason for the original ruling probably was delay. The reason for not having interim reports probably is to reduce the number of bad news reports for Trump and reduce the time for when the DOJ will get cleared to use documents.
 

once_upon

Enough
Messages
24,614
Judge Aileen Collins has clipped Special Master's wings by denying him the ability to issue interim reports on his findings. Dearie has turned around and criticized her for her actions and recommended that she reinstates this ability. does this woman not understand how patently arrogant and ridiculous she appears to the legal community and the public?

She approved the Special Master to do a job. How can she change the rules mid course?
 

Aussie Willy

Hates both vegemite and peanut butter
Messages
26,288
Feds demand writ of replevin (!) against former Trump trade adviser and accused misdemeanant contemnor Peter Navarro with respect to certain email accounts. Concurrently, the focus on federal property (records) turns to the COVID Pandemic and the Trump Administration's handling of this crisis.

replevin: a procedure whereby seized goods may be provisionally restored to their owner pending the outcome of an action to determine the rights of the parties concerned.

"There is no genuine dispute of fact that Dr. Navarro used at least one unofficial email account
to conduct official business, that those records are the property of the United States, and that Dr.
Navarro has refused to return the records to the United States. Indeed, his counsel has expressly
admitted as much. Because Dr. Navarro remains in possession of property that belongs to the United
States, this Court should issue a writ of replevin requiring Dr. Navarro to return what he wrongfully
continues to possess.

While serving as a presidential advisor, Defendant used at least one non-official email account,
namely a ProtonMail account,3 to send and receive messages in the course of discharging his official
duties. SMF ¶ 14. Certain of these messages were obtained by the House Select Subcommittee on
the Coronavirus Crisis (the Subcommittee) as part of its investigation into the government’s response
to the coronavirus pandemic. SMF ¶ 14 (citing Select Subcommittee on the Coronavirus Crisis, Select
Subcommittee Releases New Evidence Of Trump Administration Failure To Heed Early Pandemic
Warnings.


But but but but ....... Hilary's emails ......
 

sk9tingfan

Well-Known Member
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5,743
And the next 5-minute story brings us the fact that Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas did not report $700,000 of his wife's income from a conservative think tank for at least five years!! There also was another year of undisclosed/unknown salary amount from another year from Common Cause. Supreme Court Justices are mandated by law to disclose any spousal support".

 

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