Insurrectionists and subversives: Trump and his supporters (Thread for all things Trump)

MacMadame

Doing all the things
Messages
49,944
I once dated a pathological liar. He lied sometimes when the truth would serve him better. It was all a game to him to see how many people he could fool. The problem is, the more you lie, the more you get tangled up in the lies, and eventually, you are saying stupid things that are easily disproven or that are incriminating or that contradict what you said before. Few know when to stop IME. I see that in Trump.
 

Aussie Willy

Hates both vegemite and peanut butter
Messages
25,981
I once dated a pathological liar. He lied sometimes when the truth would serve him better. It was all a game to him to see how many people he could fool. The problem is, the more you lie, the more you get tangled up in the lies, and eventually, you are saying stupid things that are easily disproven or that are incriminating or that contradict what you said before. Few know when to stop IME. I see that in Trump.
I don't think Trump can actually tell the truth. He lives in such a world of delusion and victimhood that he cannot see it any other way.
 

Louis

Private citizen
Messages
17,795
Going back to the busing migrants subject, I was going to look for this information but it came up in something I was reading. Basically, it addresses the notion that when Abbot or others bus undocumented immigrants (even though that's not who the migrants being transported are) to Washington, D.C. they are sending them where there are no undocumented immigrants and its gosh darn high time Washington D.C. (by which loud mouth politicians and cable TV hosts don't mean the actual city that will use its tax money for services) had to deal with "these people" too.

To that, "The population of Washington, D.C. — one of the cities mentioned by the poll as a destination for the busing program — is 7 percent undocumented in its broader metro area, according to a 2019 Pew Research Center study. That ranked it in the top 10 percent of all metro areas and right alongside many in Texas."

Butt ignorance powers what passes for political "discourse" sometimes in this country.

It doesn't surprise me that Washington, DC and other sanctuary cities have high numbers of illegal immigrants. You created policies to encourage them to come to your city. Abbott and DeSantis are matchmaking: connecting illegals with the places that want them, and where they have the best chance of avoiding deportation if their asylum claims are rejected. In many ways, these flights and buses are humanitarian.

Unrelated point: It's a little disingenuous to look at this in percentages, given the very different bases. Washington, DC has a population of 700k, compared to Texas' ~30 million. Texas has three times more illegal immigrants than Washington, DC has people. Consider that: three DC-sized cities of entirely illegal immigrants within Texas alone.
 

MsZem

Well-Known Member
Messages
17,601
It doesn't surprise me that Washington, DC and other sanctuary cities have high numbers of illegal immigrants. You created policies to encourage them to come to your city. Abbott and DeSantis are matchmaking: connecting illegals with the places that want them, and where they have the best chance of avoiding deportation if their asylum claims are rejected. In many ways, these flights and buses are humanitarian.
So long as their asylum claims have not been rejected, they are not illegal immigrants, let alone "illegals" (as if their entire existence is forbidden). Lying to people, making it more difficult for them to attend their asylum hearings... how is this humanitarian?

Unrelated point: It's a little disingenuous to look at this in percentages, given the very different bases. Washington, DC has a population of 700k, compared to Texas' ~30 million. Texas has three times more illegal immigrants than Washington, DC has people. Consider that: three DC-sized cities of entirely illegal immigrants within Texas alone.
What is the difference in size and resources between Texas and DC?
 

BlueRidge

AYS's snark-sponge
Messages
60,804
What is the difference in size and resources between Texas and DC?
The original comparison was with individual metropolitan areas in Texas.

And the point was only that we do have issues with immigration here in D.C. We certainly don't face what border communities face, but there is the possibility of actually finding common ground and working on issues we all face.

If we were trying to solve the problems rather than having politicians use the issue to confuse and rile people so they vote for demagogues.

We can't address problems when the discussion is dominated by people with no interest in making things work better instead interested in tearing our society down, apart, and wrecking it because they think that is their path to power. And supporters of this amplifying this because they get their aggression out that way.

Anyway, time for me to go back to having PI on ignore as I'm sick of the bullshit.

ETA: we can deal with the issues. We do need to take the burden off hard hit border areas. But with organized programs that maximize our ability to provide for migrants and to legally process claims in a timely fashion.

That is not what Abbot, DeSantis et al are about. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ing-desantis-washington-dc-assistance-welcome
 
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Louis

Private citizen
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17,795
What does solving the problem look like, and how do we make things work better? I agree that neither party is clearly communicating that. What are the puts and take, and where are the hypothetical landing zones? Genuinely asking.
 

Reuven

Official FSU Alte Kacher
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16,772

Theatregirl1122

Needs a nap
Messages
27,232
Generally I have no sense of humor about politics but everyonce in while I totally :rofl: about something. Like Josh Hawley putting out a fundraising message against "transgender propaganda" that says he's against teaching young children "there is more than one gender."

oops :rofl:

Only DIRTY LIBERALS believe in GENDERS! I, for one, don't even HAVE GENDER. GENDER IS FOR PANSIES.

What?
 

rvi5

Well-Known Member
Messages
848
First Mar-A-Lago, then Georgia, then New York. Now, Washington, DC. :watch:


Thomas Windom, one of Garland's top guys was there, and is overseeing key elements of the Justice Department’s intensifying investigation into efforts to overturn the 2020 election results, so whatever happened in that courthouse was related to that particular investigation.

 

Susan1

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,891
I like this last part -
Memes have now sprouted up warning eager Lincoln admirers to think twice. In one, a black-and-white photo of Abe is paired with the message: “‘Don’t believe everything you read on the Internet just because there’s a picture with a quote next to it’—Abraham Lincoln.”
 

MacMadame

Doing all the things
Messages
49,944
I like this last part -
Memes have now sprouted up warning eager Lincoln admirers to think twice. In one, a black-and-white photo of Abe is paired with the message: “‘Don’t believe everything you read on the Internet just because there’s a picture with a quote next to it’—Abraham Lincoln.”
That's actually an oldie but goodie. :lol:
 

ballettmaus

Well-Known Member
Messages
17,601
What does solving the problem look like, and how do we make things work better? I agree that neither party is clearly communicating that. What are the puts and take, and where are the hypothetical landing zones? Genuinely asking.
What do you consider the problem? The number of migrants in general?
 

sk9tingfan

Well-Known Member
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5,402

Dobre

Well-Known Member
Messages
13,875

Arizona GOP Chairwoman Kellu Ward must turnover her cell phone to the January 6th Committee:


On that note:

After a judge's ruling, Arizona fake electors could be one step closer to real jail​


"Judge Humetewa said the House select committee investigating the Jan. 6, 2021, insurrection could subpoena the records of Arizona Republican Party Chair Kelli Ward."

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Georgia Official Says County’s Voting Equipment Will Be Replaced​

New voting equipment will be installed in Coffee County, where allies of former President Donald J. Trump copied software and other data after the 2020 election.


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caseyedwards

Well-Known Member
Messages
18,033
They were not fake electors. So when people vote for president they aren’t voting for Biden or trump. They are voting for their representatives in the state they are in. So if you were in Arizona or Georgia or New York or Massachusetts “Biden” and “trump” is just symbolic.
 

Louis

Private citizen
Messages
17,795
What do you consider the problem? The number of migrants in general?

Among other problems, there are:
1) Uncontrolled southern border
2) Large number of people living illegally in the US, including so-called "dreamers" (illegal aliens who have grown up predominantly in the US)
3) Lack of enforcement of immigration violations and open defiance of the law, including from so-called "sanctuary cities"
4) Backlog of asylum cases, 2the majority of which have no merit based on estimates from 20 years of data
5) Broken processes where economic migrants can claim asylum and stay
6) Backlogged courts in general
7) Few and very slow legal paths to immigration
8) Help/asylum for people in countries facing active combat

All of these and probably more are interlinked problems. People and politicians want these problems to be solved together -- e.g., people are unlikely to agree to a solution for 2) without a solution for 1) and possibly 3). I support 7) and 8), but we need to ensure 1-5 are solved first.
 

Susan1

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,891
They were not fake electors. So when people vote for president they aren’t voting for Biden or trump. They are voting for their representatives in the state they are in. So if you were in Arizona or Georgia or New York or Massachusetts “Biden” and “trump” is just symbolic.
"The reporter wanted Johnson to clear up questions about his involvement in the effort to get lists of fake electors from the states of Wisconsin and Michigan into Pence’s hands, as part of a scheme to have the Republican vice president replace legitimate lists of electors from states won by Biden with slates of Trump backers.?"
 

DORISPULASKI

Watching submarine races
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13,195
@Louis That is a good list, but it lacks the zeroth item.

0. Agreement on how many immigrants are needed and can be accommodated. Evaluate separate amounts for asylum cases and general immigrants.

A large group of Americans think the answer is zero for all types of immigrants. One of their solution to lack of workers is to turn women into disposable incubators to grow huge numbers of (they hope) white babies by outlawing contraception and abortion and making marital rape legal again. Not only is this solution abhorrent to many, many women: no matter how many women are put on the project, it still takes average 9 months to get a baby, average 18 years to get a basic worker. It does not solve the current lack of workers.

Another group of Americans want to accept only highly educated, English-speaking immigrants. Given the political power of the first group, many immigrants fitting that description have little interest in immigrating to a trending-authoritarian America.

And this strategy does not meet the need for hotel maids, dishwashers, servers, meat processors, construction laborers, casino workers, home health care workers, and other relatively low skill, low pay jobs. These needs are huge here in my area.


The crying need for immigration judges has started to be met.

Judges have closed more than 375,000 cases already in the period under study — a historical record. By the end of this fiscal year, closures should have reached 400,000 or more. That’s about 50% higher than FY 2019, which was the previous high

The article says this is what has been done:
More immigration judges: The court system started this fiscal year with 559 immigration judges — 26% higher than last year.

Also, judges have made short work of cases with bad HSA paperwork, cases so old people have died, or gone elsewhere & so forth.

The current administration needs a better, bigger plan, but at least they have made a start.

I am fine with border states shipping immigrants to Connecticut. My neighbor city New London is a sanctuary city, but Florida shipped Texas immigrants to Martha's Vineyard instead. DiSantis & Abbott need and do not have a group of people seeking requests from around the country of how many asylum seekers & immigrants other locations would like, and then coordinating times & places of arrival so our refugee/immigration groups can be there to meet the new arrivals.

DiSantis & Abbott appear to think our citizens are as xenophobic as theirs.

But we say, "Give us your tired, your poor." We need you.
 

caseyedwards

Well-Known Member
Messages
18,033
"The reporter wanted Johnson to clear up questions about his involvement in the effort to get lists of fake electors from the states of Wisconsin and Michigan into Pence’s hands, as part of a scheme to have the Republican vice president replace legitimate lists of electors from states won by Biden with slates of Trump backers.?"
Every state had both Trump electors and Biden electors. The Biden electors from Alabama weren’t fake! They were actually formal electors. Biden didn’t win so they don’t vote but that doesn’t make them fake
Biden electors Alabama
Brooke Tanner Battle
Linda Coleman-Madison
Earl Hilliard Jr.
Sigfredo Rubio
Lashunda Scales
James Box Spearman
Patricia Todd
Sheila Tyson
Ralph Young
 
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Susan1

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,891
Every state had both Trump electors and Biden electors. The Biden electors from Alabama weren’t fake! They were actually formal electors. Biden didn’t win so they don’t vote but that doesn’t make them fake
Biden electors Alabama
Brooke Tanner Battle
Linda Coleman-Madison
Earl Hilliard Jr.
Sigfredo Rubio
Lashunda Scales
James Box Spearman
Patricia Todd
Sheila Tyson
Ralph Young
Somebody who knows political speak want to take this one? All I know is there were already the real electors and they tried to replace them with people they wanted, and they tried to sneak the made up list to the VP. Didn't work.
 

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