Gun violence (Again!)

jeffisjeff

Well-Known Member
Messages
16,600
Louis has been hateful a d ridiculous forever. He hasn't evolved since 2008 claiming calling Giuliani fascist was ignorant because Italian Americans are so hard done by in America. Start at post 213 and be amazed at how backwards he's continued to go. (Though I hope his "poor Russians" bullshit had ended)
Since you mention Giuliani, I think there are some similarities in terms of evolution of opinions and how those are expressed. In particular, Giuliani always had problematic views on issues like race, but in recent years he has gotten more aggressive and, to be frank, bat-sh*t.
 

caseyedwards

Well-Known Member
Messages
18,024
Sounds like critical race theory version of second amendment history. It was not about slavery at all.
“The origins of the Second Amendment can be traced to ancient Roman and Florentine times, but its English origins developed in the late 16th century when Queen Elizabeth I instituted a national militia in which individuals of all classes were required by law to take part to defend the realm.”

Obama chose to be totally in the pocket of the nra his first term. It was disgraceful. Putting guns on Amtrak and on national parks and limiting atf was his highest priorities in guns
 

MacMadame

Doing all the things
Messages
49,929
Louis is a misogynist, racist, ignorant rich white dude
Could we cut out the personal attacks?

Ah, you can always count on the liberals for vicious, vile, dreamed-up, potty-mouthed personal attacks. Exhibit A of how the Democrats have become the party of hate, and how civil disagreement has become impossible. Peace and love (and help to those who clearly need it).
And we can always count on you to blame Democrats for everything you don't like.

Yes, Meghan Markel is the one who should be ashamed and not the lawmakers who facilitate these massacres or the police who stood outside while children were being murdered. :rolleyes:
But, but, there were cameras there! They wouldn't have journalists and photographers in Uvalde after a major national event if Meghan Markle wasn't there. ;)
 

Pink Cats

Well-Known Member
Messages
140

DEMONSTRATIONS & POLITICAL VIOLENCE IN AMERICA: NEW DATA FOR SUMMER 2020

Research from the University of Washington indicates that this disparity stems from political orientation and biased media framing (Washington Post, 24 August 2020), such as disproportionate coverage of violent demonstrations (Business Insider, 11 June 2020; Poynter, 25 June 2020). Groups like the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) have documented organized disinformation campaigns aimed at spreading a “deliberate mischaracterization of groups or movements [involved in the protests], such as portraying activists who support Black Lives Matter as violent extremists or claiming that antifa is a terrorist organization coordinated or manipulated by nebulous external forces” (ADL, 2020). These disinformation campaigns may be contributing to the decline in public support for the BLM movement after the initial increase following Floyd’s killing, especially amongst the white population (USA Today, 31 August 2020; Civiqs, 30 August 2020a, 30 August 2020b). This waning support also comes as the Trump administration recently shifted its “law and order” messaging to target local Democratic Party politicians from urban areas, particularly on the campaign trail (NPR, 27 August 2020).
Despite the media focus on looting and vandalism, however, there is little evidence to suggest that demonstrators have engaged in widespread violence. In some cases where demonstrations did turn violent, there are reports of agents provocateurs — or infiltrators — instigating the violence. During a demonstration on 27 May in Minneapolis, for example, a man with an umbrella — dubbed the ‘umbrella man’ by the media and later identified as a member of the Hells Angels linked to the Aryan Cowboys, a white supremacist prison and street gang — was seen smashing store windows (Forbes, 30 May 2020; KSTP, 28 July 2020).
 

once_upon

Believer in woman's right to own healthcare decisi
Messages
23,168
Let me see if I have this right

- lock kids and teachers in a building with one way in and one way out. I assume this means no windows, because gunman can break glass or shoot it out

- no recess or outdoor time because the gunman can stand outside and gun them down

- find a new hiding place and plan of action every 12 to 13 years, because any gunman over the age of 18 know the plans as they have done drills since kindergarten maybe even preschool

-no plan for dismissal, because the moment they leave the single door, they are a slow.moving target. I mean have you ever followed kids leaving any place?

- masks were too restraining, school closures during a pandemic significantly impacted school grades, social untetactions, no playtime, soley contributed to mental illness. Yet locking them in all.day doesn't? Is there no trauma from calling 911 and no help, or smearing yourself with your best friend's blood and lying on top of her for 78 minutes? Academic achievement won't be impacted the trauma of repeated active shooter drills?

- teachers at least in my area are leaving in droves. Let's hire gun advocates and hand them lesson plans - after all how hard can it be to teach?

-provide funds for mental health services. But we know that small rural communities with mostly brown population will not get those funds, they go to large metro areas and mostly upper class white kids whose parents can traverse health care systems

-2nd amendment means I get to have dozens of guns because I will need to defend myself.

In reality, what will happen is Cruz, Abbott, Reynolds, Noom, Ricketts, McConnell, Fox, Tucker, ONM, NewsMax, and others will give the thoughts and prayers. Trump will dance on stage in essence dancing on the souls of children and teachers because the NRA says any reasonable gun control measures will infringe on second amendment.

Two months will pass, school will have left the memories of a nation. Perceived threat will fade. Until the next one.

And there will be a next time.
 

DreamSkates

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,055
I am too upset by all of this happening over and over to keep reading all the posts here but I am glad that everything is being discussed.

I am asking if anyone heard (reported on the news) and why I am stating here, that a TEACHER LEFT THE BACKDOOR PROPPED OPEN which is why the gunman had such quick entry into the school and classroom.
 

misskarne

Handy Emergency Backup Mode
Messages
22,709
I am asking if anyone heard (reported on the news) and why I am stating here, that a TEACHER LEFT THE BACKDOOR PROPPED OPEN which is why the gunman had such quick entry into the school and classroom.
I have also heard this. Is it not spring warming into summer in Texas? What kind of dystopian bullshit is this, that you cannot even have doors open for breeze, that all doors must be locked, AT A SCHOOL?

Apparently there had been an awards ceremony that morning, and some doors were propped open to allow the parents to come and go.
 

Lemonade20

If I agreed with you, we’d both be wrong.
Messages
2,351
Let me see if I have this right

- lock kids and teachers in a building with one way in and one way out. I assume this means no windows, because gunman can break glass or shoot it out

- no recess or outdoor time because the gunman can stand outside and gun them down

- find a new hiding place and plan of action every 12 to 13 years, because any gunman over the age of 18 know the plans as they have done drills since kindergarten maybe even preschool

-no plan for dismissal, because the moment they leave the single door, they are a slow.moving target. I mean have you ever followed kids leaving any place?

- masks were too restraining, school closures during a pandemic significantly impacted school grades, social untetactions, no playtime, soley contributed to mental illness. Yet locking them in all.day doesn't? Is there no trauma from calling 911 and no help, or smearing yourself with your best friend's blood and lying on top of her for 78 minutes? Academic achievement won't be impacted the trauma of repeated active shooter drills?

- teachers at least in my area are leaving in droves. Let's hire gun advocates and hand them lesson plans - after all how hard can it be to teach?

-provide funds for mental health services. But we know that small rural communities with mostly brown population will not get those funds, they go to large metro areas and mostly upper class white kids whose parents can traverse health care systems

-2nd amendment means I get to have dozens of guns because I will need to defend myself.

In reality, what will happen is Cruz, Abbott, Reynolds, Noom, Ricketts, McConnell, Fox, Tucker, ONM, NewsMax, and others will give the thoughts and prayers. Trump will dance on stage in essence dancing on the souls of children and teachers because the NRA says any reasonable gun control measures will infringe on second amendment.

Two months will pass, school will have left the memories of a nation. Perceived threat will fade. Until the next one.

And there will be a next time.
So true, it's sad how quickly people forget and move on.
 

misskarne

Handy Emergency Backup Mode
Messages
22,709
The single point of ingress/egress argument is absolutely baffling me for a multitude of reasons. I mean, obviously all a school shooter would have to do is pull a fire alarm then pick off the kids as they ran to the door. You'd be funneling them towards the shooter. Wasn't that what happened at Parkland? The shooter pulled a fire alarm so he could shoot them as they evacuated?
 

MacMadame

Doing all the things
Messages
49,929
I am asking if anyone heard (reported on the news) and why I am stating here, that a TEACHER LEFT THE BACKDOOR PROPPED OPEN which is why the gunman had such quick entry into the school and classroom.
I haven't heard that. And it sounds suspiciously like finding someone safe to blame to deflect from how bad a job the police did responding to me.

And even if someone did leave a door propped open, that's what happens when you try to make a school (or workplace or apartment building or other public places) into a fortress. I have never lived or worked anywhere that had locking doors where someone didn't prop one open at least some of the time.
 

Lacey

Well-Known Member
Messages
12,053
I have heard that a teacher propped open the door so she could go out to her car and get her phone,
and I have also heard that doors were left open for the parents who came to the awards ceremonies that morning.

Don't know which if either was true.
 

uandmfan

Active Member
Messages
59
I live in Ontario. My kid's school (k to 6) has one door for entry. All the other doors can only be opened from the inside (as in kids exit through there for recess and teachers open those doors for entry after). When it's hot, they get propped open because the school becomes intolerably hot and there is no a/c. Every spring and fall.

I do not believe, for one second, that the "locked doors" would stop someone with body armor and an assault riffle. They would just shoot their way in. Or wait for recess, or the end of the day.

Our synagogue is looking at bullet proof glass (which is another sad commentary). It is incredibly expensive. I doubt that taxpayers would pony up for that expense. And even if they did, would it actually make a difference?

I don't think turning schools into prisons is the answer. I don't understand why the solution is that the kids be locked up. Aren't these the same people who are blaming lockdowns for this shooting? As if none had happened before COVID.

My heart breaks for the families of the victims. I can't even imagine their pain. I hope that this finally spurs change so that parents don't have to worry every time they send their children to school. And so children can be safe and secure at their place of learning.
 

PrincessLeppard

Holding Alex Johnson's Pineapple
Messages
27,820
Ronald Reagan (St. Ronnie to some of my conservative friends) introduced gun control to California because he didn't like the Black Panthers running around with guns.

The fastest way to get gun control would be to have a lot of black men start open carrying. Except that I would fear for their safety, which is ironic, because, you know, guns.
 

MacMadame

Doing all the things
Messages
49,929
Ronald Reagan (St. Ronnie to some of my conservative friends) introduced gun control to California because he didn't like the Black Panthers running around with guns.

The fastest way to get gun control would be to have a lot of black men start open carrying. Except that I would fear for their safety, which is ironic, because, you know, guns.
They'd have to do it in a way that people would be watching if the police tried to take them down. It would still be risky.
 

Allskate

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,693
Ronald Reagan (St. Ronnie to some of my conservative friends) introduced gun control to California because he didn't like the Black Panthers running around with guns.

The fastest way to get gun control would be to have a lot of black men start open carrying. Except that I would fear for their safety, which is ironic, because, you know, guns.

Today's Republican party does not bear much resemblance to Reagan Republicans.

Also, I don't think a lot of black men open carrying would lead to gun control. I think it would do the opposite.
 

DORISPULASKI

Watching submarine races
Messages
13,194
There is already a black militia movement
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_****ing_Around_Coalition

Established to protect, self-police, and educate Black communities on firearms and their constitutional rights; Establishment of a separate Black nation.


All it seems to me to have done is stimulate white militia movements to greater paranoia and activity.
 

Louis

Private citizen
Messages
17,780
I agree that turning schools into prisons is not the answer. (That said - I don't think anyone has actually proposed locking kids in windowless rooms with no recess.)

And scapegoating a teacher who may have left a door propped open is unbelievable.

The single point of ingress/egress argument is absolutely baffling me for a multitude of reasons. I mean, obviously all a school shooter would have to do is pull a fire alarm then pick off the kids as they ran to the door. You'd be funneling them towards the shooter. Wasn't that what happened at Parkland? The shooter pulled a fire alarm so he could shoot them as they evacuated?

Normally even buildings with single points of entry / egress have other alarmed fire doors for escape. It isn’t a completely crazy idea, and plenty of buildings do it. My high school, which was in a very rough area, did it.

I’m not a fan of the idea 1) because I don’t think kids should have to go to school in compounds, and 2) because I don’t think it will work much if at all better at preventing gun attacks. (I do think it may work better at preventing petty crime, etc., but I haven’t studied it.)
 

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