Gun violence (Again!)

ballettmaus

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Would it be possible to limit the number of guns one owns? If one owns one gun, the second amendment isn't violated but why does anyone who doesn't work in law enforcement or the military or a hunter or is an antique gun collector need to own more than one gun to fulfill their second amendment right? And why does anyone need to own automatic rifles? The simplest weapon out there would do the trick.

I don't know the exact wording of the second amendment but considering when it was written, I doubt there are specifics as to what weapons, so maybe an amendment specifying what weapons and how many one is allowed to own and severe background checks would be a good beginning?
 

Vash01

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Would it be possible to limit the number of guns one owns? If one owns one gun, the second amendment isn't violated but why does anyone who doesn't work in law enforcement or the military or a hunter or is an antique gun collector need to own more than one gun to fulfill their second amendment right? And why does anyone need to own automatic rifles? The simplest weapon out there would do the trick.

I don't know the exact wording of the second amendment but considering when it was written, I doubt there are specifics as to what weapons, so maybe an amendment specifying what weapons and how many one is allowed to own and severe background checks would be a good beginning?
"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed."

The Second amendment does not specify the type or quantity of the 'Arms'. I am sure 200 years ago they never thought about semiautomatic guns. The key words here are " A well regulated militia".

Your questions are common sense questions. I am sure they were asked multiple times by multiple individuals, but our politicians are so corrupt that they are bought by the NRA, even with small amounts of money. It's reprehensible that they value those donations by this horrible organization more than the lives of innocent people.
 
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Japanfan

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Cachoo

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At another site I went off about yet another mass murder and someone who supports having these weapons scolded me because it was "too soon." Well it feels way too late to me. And now that "silencer" bill is in Congress. They can't pass so many bills but if it involves guns bring it on! Can you imagine if this guy had used a silencer when he was shooting? Talk about making a nightmare even worse...
 

AxelAnnie

Graceful men lift lovely girls in white!
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What is the silencer bill?
Someone is talking about and supporting a bill to make silencers legal. Hillary came out and said that had the silencer been available many more people would have died. I guess she figured if people did not hear the shots they would not have noticed bloody bodies dropping all around. The problem with Hills assertion of course is that there are no silencers for assault weapons. She was I'll informed.
Hillary was not as bad as the CBS newscaster who said she had no sympathy for any of the Nevada victims because it is Republicans who like country western music and republicans who support the second amendment....so pretty much they brought their fate upon themselves. Charming.
 

misskarne

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Vash - the problem with your logic and POV is that the bad guys are going to get the guns. More gun laws or stricter laws is not going to solve the problem.
Oh, there's a shocker, that you think gun control won't work because "bad guys get the guns". Unsurprising.

Guess what. Bad guys have guns here, too. Good part is that they mostly shoot each other. You know what the even better part is? Been more than 20 years since our last mass shooting. Tell me again how gun control doesn't work.

Your logic basically amounts to: I don't care how many people die because it's just too hard to fix and la-la-la I'm going to ignore the obvious solution.

The ones who wrote the second amendment wrote it with muskets and cannons - single shot weapons that took time to reload - in mind. Oh, and that it should be as part of a "well-regulated militia". That part gets conveniently left out of the arguments of people like you.

PS: Of course people would have noticed dead bodies dropping to the ground if there was a silencer. But they would have noticed in smaller groups and the general reaction time would be slower. The first gun shot rings out, everyone reacts.
 

babayaga

Well-Known Member
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837
So people think bad guys will get guns no matter what. Then why there are no mass shootings in other countries? I forgot what is the standard republican response to this question.
 

LilJen

Reaching out with my hand sensitively
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Vash - the problem with your logic and POV is that the bad guys are going to get the guns. More gun laws or stricter laws is not going to solve the problem.
So because we can't get this perfect, because we will miss some guns and fail to keep some away from bad guys, we should just not bother at all?

I'll take "better" over "nothing" every single time, if I can't get "perfect."
 

manhn

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13,097
So people think bad guys will get guns no matter what. Then why there are no mass shootings in other countries? I forgot what is the standard republican response to this question.
We watch no violent movies and we magically solved the mental health crisis.

Also, I don't think "other countries" exist for a lot of Americans.
 

Vash01

Fan of Yuzuru, Three A's, T&M, P&C
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We watch no violent movies and we magically solved the mental health crisis.

Also, I don't think "other countries" exist for a lot of Americans.
You nailed it. The mindset/brainwashing here is- Other countries either don't exist or they are worse than us. We are the best in every respect.
 

Miezekatze

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Our socialist health care systems cost so much money, nobody can afford to buy guns :p , so we just sit around watching American movies and playing American video games.
 

Vash01

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What is the silencer bill?
I don't know the exact wording but they want to deregulate purchase of silencers, so people can kill with guns without anyone hearing the sound of gunfire.

This is insanity and I am hoping against hope that it will fail, particularly in the light of what happened in Vegas. History tells us however that our Congress doesn't give a damn about people's lives.
 

snoopy

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12,232
So people think bad guys will get guns no matter what. Then why there are no mass shootings in other countries? I forgot what is the standard republican response to this question.
Bad guys will get cocaine too, but few argue that should be legal.
 

Susan1

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I've said it before, but they won't do anything until someone in their own family gets killed.

There doesn't seem to be a solution. No one would have kept the shooter from buying a gun because of mental illness. Obviously you have to be mentally ill to do something like this, but if there are no warning signs or clues?

I remember the friend of a friend on FB who said that Hillary was not going to keep him from protecting his property. Or that stupid commercial with the girl in the green top who said that Hillary wouldn't have wanted her to have a gun to protect herself when she was going to be raped. (I know it wasn't a real person-maybe she was a Russian bot!) But what if they were in the crowd at the concert? Would they defend the shooter's right to have all those guns?

I need to stop before I break my keyboard!
 

Vash01

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I've said it before, but they won't do anything until someone in their own family gets killed.

There doesn't seem to be a solution. No one would have kept the shooter from buying a gun because of mental illness. Obviously you have to be mentally ill to do something like this, but if there are no warning signs or clues?

I remember the friend of a friend on FB who said that Hillary was not going to keep him from protecting his property. Or that stupid commercial with the girl in the green top who said that Hillary wouldn't have wanted her to have a gun to protect herself when she was going to be raped. (I know it wasn't a real person-maybe she was a Russian bot!) But what if they were in the crowd at the concert? Would they defend the shooter's right to have all those guns?

I need to stop before I break my keyboard!
From my narrow perspective, having that many guns is a sign of a dangerous addiction. That, combined with gambling addiction, could point to a serious problem. Unfortunately the law doesn't allow a person to be searched on mere suspicion. He has to harm someone before they can do something about it.
 

Vash01

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Paul Ryan said the silencer bill is not on House schedule right now (paraphrasing). Implication: let us wait until people forget about Vegas before bringing it to the House. He said mental health is the most important thing in preventing these mass shootings (paraphrasing again). Can't post a link on iPad.
 

MacMadame

Staying at home
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At another site I went off about yet another mass murder and someone who supports having these weapons scolded me because it was "too soon."
I hope you called them out on that. I'm so sick of how these people attempt to shut down the conversation.

What is the silencer bill?
It will make getting a silencer easier. They were going to vote on it this week but now they've postponed the vote (for the 2nd time). They want to do it when no one is paying attention.
 

babayaga

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I hope you called them out on that. I'm so sick of how these people attempt to shut down the conversation.
That seems like a deliberate tactic, right? Make everyone shut up because "it is too soon" and wait until something else distracts people's attention.
 

Vash01

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That seems like a deliberate tactic, right? Make everyone shut up because "it is too soon" and wait until something else distracts people's attention.
Of course it is deliberate. They think people will forget the tragedy and then they will sneak it in.

If not now, when? For them no time is the right time to talk about sensible gun laws. They say now is not the time to talk politics. I say it is.
 

ballettmaus

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14,700
Someone is talking about and supporting a bill to make silencers legal. Hillary came out and said that had the silencer been available many more people would have died. I guess she figured if people did not hear the shots they would not have noticed bloody bodies dropping all around. The problem with Hills assertion of course is that there are no silencers for assault weapons. She was I'll informed.
People's response would probably be slower. The moment one hears a shot/explosion, one is likely to take cover/try to get to safety. It takes a lot longer for someone to realize there's imminent danger if one doesn't hear anything. We may be talking seconds here but seconds are a long time when it comes to a mass shooting. There's also a chance that without sound/muffled sound it might take longer to locate the shooter.

ETA: I don't think it was Hillary who was ill informed.
The sound of gunfire captured on videos recorded during the massacre, which killed at least 59 people and injured hundreds more, indicates that Paddock fired from the 32nd floor of the Mandalay Bay Resort and Casino with at least one automatic weapon, or a semi-automatic rifle modified to fire like an automatic.

One of the two images of rifles published by the station show an AR-15 type rifle with a bump or slide fire modification, said Cody Wilson, director of Defense Distributed, which primarily sells a gun milling machine.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-different/?tid=pm_pop&utm_term=.486216b8d63e

Silencers for an AR 15 exist.


@Aussie Willy The silencer bill https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...1076f6d6152_story.html?utm_term=.602d5695cae2
 
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AxelAnnie

Graceful men lift lovely girls in white!
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People's response would probably be slower. The moment one hears a shot/explosion, one is likely to take cover/try to get to safety. It takes a lot longer for someone to realize there's imminent danger if one doesn't hear anything. We may be talking seconds here but seconds are a long time when it comes to a mass shooting. There's also a chance that without sound/muffled sound it might take longer to locate the shooter.

@Aussie Willy The silencer bill https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...1076f6d6152_story.html?utm_term=.602d5695cae2
Agreed.
 

LilJen

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Paul Ryan said . . . mental health is the most important thing in preventing these mass shootings (paraphrasing again).
but by golly, we must NOT have the ACA which guarantees parity in mental health treatment! :mad:
 

Aussie Willy

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Thanks for the information about the silencer bill. I saw information about it too on the news here last night.

I was watching one of the chat programs here where they discussed Las Vegas (which also happens every time there is a mass shooting in the US). Everyone agrees that our gun control laws work and we cannot understand why the US doesn't do anything about it.

Last year when I was in the US someone asked me what I thought about the gun situation in the US. I just said we sit in Australia thinking that gun control was the problem and we cannot understand how the US cannot see it. And to implement gun control as a solution to the problem was a no-brainer.

I also remember years ago (about 18 years) when I was in the US previously that there had been a mass shooting at a school and at no time did I see gun control mentioned in the discussion. I was stunned because it wasn't that long after Port Arthur here. The whole culture around guns just shocks me.
 

DORISPULASKI

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Jimmy Kimmel on the right side of the argument re Las Vegas, his home town
~3.5 Million views :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruYeBXudsds

Caleb Keeter, country musician, on his conversion from Gun Religion after being shot at in Las Vegas:
"I've been a proponent of the 2nd amendment my entire life. Until the events of last night," he said. "I cannot express how wrong I was."

Keeter wrote that the band and crew felt utterly powerless and terrified during the shooting, and that crew members who had concealed-carry permits couldn't use them for fear of being mistaken for the shooter.
http://www.businessinsider.com/las-vegas-shooting-caleb-keeter-gun-control-2017-10
 

4rkidz

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I got into an argument with an American online who believes this Vegas thing is fake - like Sandyhook? Also thinks 9-11 was a zionist set up and denies the holocaust. Blames it all on globalists who want to take away his guns? I can't believe people think like that? My grandad was a prisoner of war I remember the stories, my friend met with parents from Sandyhook - do they seriously think all these families shipped their children off to space or something? oh wait - they probably think that the moon is fake too... Wow these conspiracy people are nuts! Seriously sick bastar#@
 

FGRSK8

Toad whisperer.....
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I got into an argument with an American online who believes this Vegas thing is fake - like Sandyhook? Also thinks 9-11 was a zionist set up and denies the holocaust. Blames it all on globalists who want to take away his guns? I can't believe people think like that? My grandad was a prisoner of war I remember the stories, my friend met with parents from Sandyhook - do they seriously think all these families shipped their children off to space or something? oh wait - they probably think that the moon is fake too... Wow these conspiracy people are nuts! Seriously sick bastar#@
If you were skyping with him you would have seen his tin foil helmet...:p:p:p
 

Vash01

Fan of Yuzuru, Three A's, T&M, P&C
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I got into an argument with an American online who believes this Vegas thing is fake - like Sandyhook? Also thinks 9-11 was a zionist set up and denies the holocaust. Blames it all on globalists who want to take away his guns? I can't believe people think like that? My grandad was a prisoner of war I remember the stories, my friend met with parents from Sandyhook - do they seriously think all these families shipped their children off to space or something? oh wait - they probably think that the moon is fake too... Wow these conspiracy people are nuts! Seriously sick bastar#@
These are people who would believe the earth is flat and all planets revolve around the earth.

Physical evidence does nothing for them.
 

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