Gun violence (Again!)

Vash01

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I heard the news about the mass shooting in Las Vegas, and oddly I felt only a minor shock. We are used to this now. When will this madness end?

I feel sorry for the victims, their families, and the survivors too. I cant imagine how traumatized they must feel, for years. However, sympathy does not solve the problem. I am afraid that after the period of mourning it will be forgotten until the next mass shooting. I don't see us coming out of this kind of violence, ever.

Trump will say what he is supposed to say (one of the few times he does what is expected of him). He will have his photo op and speech in Vegas. Wasn't he supposed to visit Puerto Rico just the day before? I am sure he will not speak up against guns.

Anyone that wants to kill many people is mentally ill, whether psychiatrists label him that or not. The problem is still easy access to weapons that should not be in the hands of civilians.

If Sandy Hook did not bring about some kind of gun control, nothing will. Republicans and even some democrats will call this an act of a crazy person, blame everything on mental issues, and do nothing about gun control.

I feel frustrated, hopeless, angry, and sad.
 
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AxelAnnie

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Vash - the problem with your logic and POV is that the bad guys are going to get the guns. More gun laws or stricter laws is not going to solve the problem.

No one outside the military should have an assault rifle. That being said, most gun owners (obviously) don't go shoot 'em up.

Also, we (as a society) have lost the ability to declare a mentally ill person not fit to be on their own. Some of these shooters have had a neon sign flashing on them that they were bad and could be dangerous, but we have no power to do anything.

I just came from having a mammogram (joyful). The tech who did it had a friend at the concert. She was swept away, and spent hours in a safe house. Her body is ok, but she is terrorized. There were thousands and thousands of people at that concert. They still do not have all the bodies out. This is a total nightmare. Evidently many of the concert goers had been drinking all day (it was a three act concert), and that slowed and wonked their ability to react. Not blaming them....just saying that there were a lot of dazed people walking around not realizing what was happening, or how to respond.

I don't think anyone knows the facts yet, really. How did this guy get all those guns into the hotel? Don't they have metal detectors?

This is just, to me, heartbreaking on so many levels.
 

DFJ

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Saw this on the news when I woke up this morning. Hardly fazed anymore, which is really a sad thing to say.
 

AxelAnnie

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Information is coming out on the shooter. He was gambling with large amounts of money, and they don't know if it was winning or losing. (Ummmm I would say losing - why start shooting if you were winning).

Paddock's brother said that (after being astounded because his brother was just a normal guy.....really?) their father had been on the FBI 10 most wanted list for bank robbery.

Charming.
 

caseyedwards

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Time to start proposing repeal of second amendment so all possible solutions can be discussed and considered.
 

MacMadame

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Saw this on the news when I woke up this morning. Hardly fazed anymore, which is really a sad thing to say.
This one shocked me. But then I braced myself for the acrimonious discussion that would follow. Sometimes I wonder what happened to my country.
 

oleada

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If nothing happened after Sandy Hook, then I doubt anything will now. If as a society, we are ok with 6 year olds being shot at school and don't change, then I doubt anything will make the American public wake up.

Already in this thread you see people pretending that the easy access to guns doesn't matter, when the US is unique among developed countries when it comes to access to weapons.

Personally, I don't see why anyone needs some sort of gun in their home unless you live in like...rural Alaska with bears, and even then, why do you need more than one.
 

Vash01

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When I looked up CNN on my computer this morning, Trump and his wife were seen with theirs heads bowed, bells tolling for the victims. Trump called this an evil act (what else could it be?). Will he do something about it? No way he will go against the NRA, his party and his supporters. Crocodile tears, I say.

By contrast, Hillary made a strong and direct statement against the NRA. I wish she could run for POTUS again.
 
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DFJ

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I'm still kind of surprised that people are so shocked at this. These won't stop. Everyone will express dismay until the next one and will do f##k all about it.
 

topaz

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Per The guardian - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/02/cost-of-gun-violence-hospital-expenses-johns-hopkins-study

In 2015, about 36,500 people died of firearms-related injuries. When that total was added to those injured, Gani and his co-authors found more than 100,000 people each year were shot, either as part of an assault, accidentally or while attempting to kill themselves.


“It’s just a matter of time before this happens again,” said Weiser. “The truth is these tragedies – these mass shootings – attract tremendous headlines. The other truth is there is daily carnage throughout the United States in ones, twos and threes that don’t make headlines.”
 

Vash01

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I'm still kind of surprised that people are so shocked at this. These won't stop. Everyone will express dismay until the next one and will do f##k all about it.
I am kind of numb. I am beyond feeling shocked after so many mass shootings, but when I heard the news on my car radio, there was an element of surprise, like when something unexpected happens. The sadness that follows is a natural reaction.
 

Japanfan

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Vash - the problem with your logic and POV is that the bad guys are going to get the guns. More gun laws or stricter laws is not going to solve the problem.
In the film "Bowling for Columbine" Michael Moore claimed that Canada actually has more guns per capita than the US - I presumed this was because a lot of people in the north part of the country use them for hunting.

But even so, stricter gun laws could help to prevent school/mass/individual shootings.

The Vegas shooter just sauntered into a Vegas gun shop, bought a weapon, and proceeded to commit mass murder. I don't know if stricter gun laws would have prevented him from getting the weapon - there would need to be a reason such as mental instability or a history of violence, and I don't think there was either in this case. But there is still something very wrong with the picture here.
 

AxelAnnie

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In the film "Bowling for Columbine" Michael Moore claimed that Canada actually has more guns per capita than the US - I presumed this was because a lot of people in the north part of the country use them for hunting.

But even so, stricter gun laws could help to prevent school/mass/individual shootings.

The Vegas shooter just sauntered into a Vegas gun shop, bought a weapon, and proceeded to commit mass murder. I don't know if stricter gun laws would have prevented him from getting the weapon - there would need to be a reason such as mental instability or a history of violence, and I don't think there was either in this case. But there is still something very wrong with the picture here.
We did not need to hear this information from Michael Moore. We have both the highest number of guns per capita as well as the most gun violence in the world.

Paddock had a veritable arsenal in his home. And he did not walk into a gun store and buy a gun and then shoot 'em up. The police found at 10 guns in his rooms at the Mandalay Bay hotel.

So I stand by what I said. This guy was looney tunes at best, and evil, evil, evil at worst. (I am going with evil). So I stand by what I said....the bad guys will get the guns if they want. Laws are not going to stop people who have no regard for the law to follow gun restrictions.
 

4rkidz

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In the film "Bowling for Columbine" Michael Moore claimed that Canada actually has more guns per capita than the US - I presumed this was because a lot of people in the north part of the country use them for hunting.

But even so, stricter gun laws could help to prevent school/mass/individual shootings.

The Vegas shooter just sauntered into a Vegas gun shop, bought a weapon, and proceeded to commit mass murder. I don't know if stricter gun laws would have prevented him from getting the weapon - there would need to be a reason such as mental instability or a history of violence, and I don't think there was either in this case. But there is still something very wrong with the picture here.
not true - USA has 112 guns per 100 people whereas Canada has 30 guns per 100 people - also the type of guns are quite different - Canada is only allowed hunting rifles (for actual hunting of animals not people) - so no semi automatic or automatic guns or special bullets - have to be a certain size as well - there are very strict rules around them. Also not allowed handguns like in USA .. so really is no comparison. Not very easy to access guns in Canada that could be used for mass shootings.. so makes a big difference.. unlike in the States where its very easy and legal to access guns for mass shootings.
 
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not true - USA has 112 guns per 100 people whereas Canada has 30 guns per 100 people - also the type of guns are quite different - Canada is only allowed hunting rifles (for actual hunting of animals not people) - so no semi automatic or automatic guns or special bullets - have to be a certain size as well - there are very strict rules around them. Also not allowed handguns like in USA .. so really is no comparison. Not very easy to access guns in Canada that could be used for mass shootings.. so makes a big difference.. unlike in the States where its very easy and legal to access guns for mass shootings.
You can get semi automatic rifles in Canada, but you need a possession and acquisition license (PAL) as with all firearms. The process to get a PAL involves a course, and an extensive background check. You can also get handguns but you have to have a different kind of license and they aren't common. The only people I know with handguns are ex-RCMP or ex-military.
 

4rkidz

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You can get semi automatic rifles in Canada, but you need a possession and acquisition license (PAL) as with all firearms. The process to get a PAL involves a course, and an extensive background check. You can also get handguns but you have to have a different kind of license and they aren't common. The only people I know with handguns are ex-RCMP or ex-military.
Both of those are extensive and difficult to attain - typically first responders and not easily accessible by the general public. So an awful lot of hoops to go through impacting on accessibility.. unlike in Nevada where you don't even need a permit to buy a gun and there is no limit to the number you can purchase.
 

Aussie Willy

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Problem with Sandy Hook is the consipracy theorists took hold of it and said it never happened. And the NRA took hold of it and complained that they would have their guns taken away because of it.

The biggest issue is the NRA are an incredibly vocal minority who campaign louder than everyone else and probably pay the politicians a pretty penny to hold onto their right to have whatever weapons they like. However the mentality of those who want their gun rights is incredibly frightening and I think policitians are reluctant to change the law because if they did they could be on some nutters death list.

In the meantime the US continues to kill each other with weapons that have no other purpose but to kill. And the rest of us sit back and are continually amazed that no-one in power is prepared to have the balls to say enough is enough.
 

Vash01

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So far they have recovered 42 guns from the shooter's room and house. How does one person buy or get through other means that many guns without being noticed? There needs to be a database of people who buy weapons, and registration must be required.

My personal preference is for 'No guns for civilians', with some exceptions - people living in remote areas, those who must hunt for food, etc. I have said this many times - guns are for law enforcement and soldiers.
 

4rkidz

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there needs to be systemic changes to the laws to really change the system and step one would be to limit the political donations from lobbyists - Canada has strict lobby laws so we would never get into this predicament of being 'owned' by the lobbyists. Apparently 30 million in donations from the NRA to Pence and donations to other republicans means there will never be changes as they are all owned by the NRA. What if new laws were made that took the power away? Limitation to donations? It's the system that needs to change..
 

Vash01

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Problem with Sandy Hook is the consipracy theorists took hold of it and said it never happened. And the NRA took hold of it and complained that they would have their guns taken away because of it.

The biggest issue is the NRA are an incredibly vocal minority who campaign louder than everyone else and probably pay the politicians a pretty penny to hold onto their right to have whatever weapons they like. However the mentality of those who want their gun rights is incredibly frightening and I think policitians are reluctant to change the law because if they did they could be on some nutters death list.

In the meantime the US continues to kill each other with weapons that have no other purpose but to kill. And the rest of us sit back and are continually amazed that no-one in power is prepared to have the balls to say enough is enough.
Obama tried to get background checks. Gabby Gifford and her husband have been fighting for sensible restrictions on gun owners. Hillary made a strong statement today. Sadly these voices are being drowned out by greedy and ignorant people who have no conscience.

It amazes me that the NRA has so much control that our Congress cannot pass the most sensible gun laws that even majority of gun owners want.
 
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MacMadame

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If nothing happened after Sandy Hook, then I doubt anything will now. If as a society, we are ok with 6 year olds being shot at school and don't change, then I doubt anything will make the American public wake up.
I don't think our country works like that. In the past, change has happened by slowly chipping away at the old way of looking at things. Every horrific mass killing adds to people's outrage and changes the conversation slowly but surely. I predict that what ends up changing it permanently could easily be a smaller event and people will say "why that one when killing children didn't do it?" and the answer will be: beats me!

The biggest issue is the NRA are an incredibly vocal minority who campaign louder than everyone else and probably pay the politicians a pretty penny to hold onto their right to have whatever weapons they like.
There is no probably about it. The NRA owns quite a few politicans.
 

rvi5

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Both of those are extensive and difficult to attain - typically first responders and not easily accessible by the general public. So an awful lot of hoops to go through impacting on accessibility...
I once watched an episode of Canadian “Border Security”. The CBSA had used x-ray on a mailed parcel, discovering a gun barrel. Over a period of several weeks, they were watching for other packages. They eventually assembled a military WWII automatic rifle. The type with support legs at the front, using an ammo belt. Obviously smugglers can’t get them easily, if they must mail it into the country in pieces.

I can’t say I have ever seen a gun store in Canada. Are they in an industrial plaza? Frequently, I take an out-of-the-way remote route home past un-signed long buildings. I always wondered what they were (a Bingo hall???). On the odd occasion, I would see a full parking lot. But, mostly not. It wasn’t until I was browsing on Google maps satellite view, that a label appeared indicating it was a gun club shooting range. I guess they were having a shooting competition on the days the parking lot was full. I assume gun stores, repair shops, and clubs are not permitted to advertise their location using signs?
 

susan6

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The NRA owns quite a few politicans.
This article has a list of every member of congress who has taken money from the NRA....the amount they took is followed by what they tweeted about the Las Vegas massacre. The NRA appreciates their inaction a hell of a lot more than the victims appreciate their tweeted "thoughts and prayers".
I didn't make it all the way through, because....it's a LOOOOOOONG list. The NRA does indeed own a lot of politicians.

http://splinternews.com/every-member-of-congress-who-took-money-from-the-nra-an-1819059582
 

manhn

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There is a gun store near where I live, a suburb outside Vancouver. I used to take guitar lessons in the same building when I was a kid. Not that I seek them out, but there are more out there.
 

4rkidz

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There are hunting/archery stores that sell guns, but not many of them. I don’t think there are laws against advertising, but likely not necessary as not many of them? The same stores also do the required gun training for your license as you are required to get a license for a gun with waiting periods, background checks etc . You can’t transport guns easily either as laws around that too and specific rules on how they can be transported. As I recall you have to be directly on route to a gun range or repair shop etc, illegal to transport otherwise.
 

Vash01

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This article has a list of every member of congress who has taken money from the NRA....the amount they took is followed by what they tweeted about the Las Vegas massacre. The NRA appreciates their inaction a hell of a lot more than the victims appreciate their tweeted "thoughts and prayers".
I didn't make it all the way through, because....it's a LOOOOOOONG list. The NRA does indeed own a lot of politicians.

http://splinternews.com/every-member-of-congress-who-took-money-from-the-nra-an-1819059582
Shame on them!
 

rvi5

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You can’t transport guns easily either as laws around that too and specific rules on how they can be transported. As I recall you have to be directly on route to a gun range or repair shop etc, illegal to transport otherwise.
Yes, I heard there can be no detours or stops along the way. Should the cops find you in a shopping mall parking lot, they can arrest you whether you have a valid gun license or not. I am not sure how that works if you are travelling for a hunting trip. Perhaps only within a city limit?

On another Border Security episode, a young American women decided to drive to Alaska for her birthday. She had a rifle, a valid gun license, and declared the weapon properly. However, they did give her a friendly warning that the bullets can not be transported in the same case as the rifle. I assume if her weapon is stolen, there would be no ammo easily taken with it.
 

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