From Russia With Love [#38]: Fall/Winter 2020

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Natanielle825

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Some more thoughts on the programs after re-watching:
Daria had trouble standing out here, partly because she didn't have the big elements or a chance at winning, partly because I found her choreography pretty generic. She has nice expression, but I would give her an extra 5 points if she would hold her Ina Bauer across the rink. Over Daniil's dead body, I know. Interesting that she was given basically the same PCS as Sasha.
I know I've said I want Sasha to go back to her dynamic style programs, but part of me wants her to keep the short. It's such pretty music and I think she does a nice job with it. I'd want to see it if she just worked on it more with Ilinykh, but she has to really want to. The free definitely needs to be more exciting, it's a bunch of nothing till Dance of the Knights comes on.
Kamila's short was really the standout program, such a beautiful song by Eric and perfect to skate to. If we don't see a bunch of juniors using it next season too I'd like Kamila to keep it. Different dress though for the love of god. And again, I'd pay Daniil to get her to do a really long spiral with a nice smile. I know people have been hating on Bolero, but I also thought it was the best of the night. The music and choreography carried through the whole program without losing my interest and it matched her intensity level and serious demeanor.
I so wish Anna would point her feet, it really takes away from her aesthetic, I'd take her down a bunch in SS for it. She does have more expression than the others but I also thought her choreography in both programs was very generic. And I know the short program music was supposed to be depressing...but I found it depressing. The long is also kind of dull until the music changes. She has a lovely smile, I wish I didn't have to wait till the end to see it.
Also I have an idea - why doesn't Daniil choreograph them all programs that start with taking a few steps forward, making a face, then backing up? It would be so original.
 
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PRlady

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I also want to cheer fthe Maleficent program, as well as the cool costume with the wings suggested on the back! She’s a bit herky-jerky going across the ice, though.

As a Sasha fan, I do think Daniel had the right idea with the tough-girl programs like GOF. The execution, well, his choreographic language is limited. I’d really like to see her do a dramatic Averbukh program that plays to her strengths.

If Eteri is wise, she’ll give Kamila a somber program that matches her affect, as Schindler’s List did for Julia. A tragic heroine who is not Juliet or opera diva but more modern.

And one way or another there will be a Russian girl atop the Oly podium next year. Rika is really the only competition unless Kaori gets the big jumps. I’m just hoping the quality of skating is as high as the three medalists brought on Saturday.
 

ЭPiKUilyam

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My thoughts on Russian ladies:
1. Shcherbakova- Wonderful, exquisite. She's been my favorite for four years, and it's so wonderful to see her grow into the beautiful young woman and skater that she is. I watched her 3 Nationals winning programs in order, and every year she improves. Sure, her 4lutz isn't the insanely huge one she had when she was 14, but it looks stronger. I don't mind her skating to "soft and pretty" because she is exquisite at it, and it lends to a very calming skate which I think makes it easier to skate cleanly. She's an amazing dancer and can skate/dance to anything, but as long as she gets her PCS with this type of program, I'm fine with it. What a champion.
2. Valieva- First time she skated Bolero clean, and it was amazing to me. I still pick her for OGM. What was nice to see here was the competitive athlete emerging from her. She didn't look scared. And I think her 'loss' while skating a clean competition minus a fall on a 3axel is just what she needed. It is taking the pressure of being the chosen one off her shoulders. I think we'll start seeing a more fiery and determined skater out there, not just a unicorn who feels the pressure of being perfect. A great competition from her. On a superficial note, I really think her costume should be two-toned top and bottom. There was too much black and her lines and choreography for me were getting lost by all that black. I'd consider maybe red top/arms and black below. Her 4toe is enormous, and her 3axel is really there, she just needs more practice in competition with it. Watch out for the Olympic season.
3. Trusova- I was so happy for her to skate a clean competition. Her improvement is undeniable which is good to see. But, her PCS is much lower than the top two deservedly. What I think she should do leading up to the Olympics: 1. Get the 3axel down. Stop training 4loops or 4flips. Focus on a program with 2 4lutzes, a 3axel, and a 4toe and keep training the 4sal because she can easily do a 4toe in the second half. 2. Work on her spins, like at least an hour a day. She's a very good spinner but compared to Shcher and Val there is no comparison, in fact, they look weaker than they actually are in comparison. She's not as naturally flexible which limits her, but just improving her speed and positions in her spins will make a big difference. 3. For her presentation, I didn't mind either of her programs. I think she needs more powerful music. She can create a "moment" with her jumps. R/J was okay for her. I want her to still package herself more 'ladylike' (I know, barf, but hear me out). Not to go back to programs like Daenyres or those others because she won't be competitive with the top two, only because I feel she would still be perceived as just a jumper. The Stojko of the group. She's capable of it, and I'm pleased with her work with Pluschenko in just this short amount of time.
4. Usacheva- I love her programs. I think she has amazing skills, excellent attention to detail. Now she just needs some ultra-C. And really work on that lutz edge even if she didn't get called. The only skaters' programs I have watched over and over again this season have been hers, Akatieva's, Valieva's and Shcherbakova's. I guess I don't mind Daniil choreography, LOL. But Daria is really growing into herself and her skating, and looks so confident now. Good for her.
 

Wyliefan

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With the caveat that it's way too early to pick an OGM, I'm leaning toward picking Anna for OGM. :) I may have my feelings about the adults around her letting her skate while sick, but that doesn't take away from the fact that nothing, but NOTHING, fazes that girl. Three-time national champion in a field like this is phenomenal.
 
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tony

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With the caveat that it's way too early to pick an OGM, I'm leaning toward picking Anna for OGM. :) I may have my feelings about the adults around her letting her skate while sick, but that doesn't take away from the fact, that nothing, but NOTHING, fazes that girl. Three-time national champion in a field like this is phenomenal.
Not picking on you but just pulling this quote as an example. Here we go again with this double standard of what the ‘adults’ should and shouldn’t be doing. Anna is 16, we’ve already figured out that is legal age via a different discussion, and therefore she and she alone is most responsible for the final decision on whether she should skate.

If we don’t want coaches calling/texting 16/17 year olds, then why are we expecting them to make just about every decision for them otherwise?
 

Wyliefan

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It's not so contradictory as you think. In both cases -- deciding whether to call or text a skater, and deciding to pull a sick skater -- the adult is recognized as the figure with authority and responsibility, the person who's supposed to do the right thing when the young athlete doesn't yet have a full adult measure of maturity and objectivity.
 

tony

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It's not so contradictory as you think. In both cases -- deciding whether to call or text a skater, and deciding to pull a sick skater -- the adult is recognized as the figure with authority and responsibility, the person who's supposed to do the right thing when the young athlete doesn't yet have a full adult measure of maturity and objectivity.
But here you are calling her a girl, calling others adults, etc and trying to make that separation.

If it were an 18 year old in the US or someone that generally wasn’t well-liked, I have no doubt the responsibility would fall 100% on that skater/person in general rather than everyone else.
 

tony

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Probably. What's wrong with that? I've never understood the outrage over calling girls girls.
Because you and you alone are determining that she apparently can’t make her own decisions at a legal age according to Russia, and you are specifically calling others adults while you don’t call her as such.

I don’t know about you, but when I was 18 and moved away to start school, if you would’ve tried to tell me ‘you’re an 18 year old boy, the adults in your life should be making the decisions’, I think you can figure out what I would’ve told you to do.
 

tony

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:) I may have my feelings about the adults around her letting her skate while sick,
You determined you have feelings about other people being the ones at blame (aka those evil coaches) because she can’t possibly make a decision herself. And then you doubled-down on the ‘they are adults, I’ll call her girl’ stuff.
 

NadezhdaNadya

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Because you and you alone are determining that she apparently can’t make her own decisions at a legal age according to Russia, and you are specifically calling others adults while you don’t call her as such.

I don’t know about you, but when I was 18 and moved away to start school, if you would’ve tried to tell me ‘you’re an 18 year old boy, the adults in your life should be making the decisions’, I think you can figure out what I would’ve told you to do.
Off topic: Wow, good for you! I know many people in Bulgaria who moved out after the age of 30. I know others who never moved out and at the age of 45-50 still live with their parents. This is so annoying to me. (And they are not my friends...) Since I had to fully take care of myself at the age 19. (In Bulgaria we are still high school students at the age of 19.)
Are you an American?
 

Theatregirl1122

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Not picking on you but just pulling this quote as an example. Here we go again with this double standard of what the ‘adults’ should and shouldn’t be doing. Anna is 16, we’ve already figured out that is legal age via a different discussion, and therefore she and she alone is most responsible for the final decision on whether she should skate.

If we don’t want coaches calling/texting 16/17 year olds, then why are we expecting them to make just about every decision for them otherwise?

The age of consent for sex is not the legal age of adulthood in most of the world, so I'm not sure why you're conflating the two. There are plenty of parts of the US where the age of consent is 16. That doesn't magically make 16 year olds adults. And honestly, it's a little weird and gross to conflate the two?

For example, the legal age to vote in Russia is 18 just like it is in the US. So no, by Russian law, Anna isn't more of an adult than a 16 year old American is. And honestly, have you MET a 16 year old? 16 year olds are not good at perspective. Their brains are literally not developed for that. So yes, their adult guardians/the adults in charge of their wellbeing should be adding some perspective to situation.
 

clairecloutier

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Is there any support for starting a separate thread just for discussion of Russian ladies?? It seems like there is more than enough activity here to justify such a thread.

(And that way, those of us who are here for other Russian skating news don't need to wade through dozens of posts about ladies, age of consent, rumors, Eteri/Plush, etc., etc. ....)
 

tony

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So? That still doesn't mean I had any say in the situation. I have opinions and I expressed them and my authority ends there. That's how FSU works.
Okay so now we are talking in circles. I said I pulled your example to highlight the inconsistencies in what people think coaches should be doing and you went out of your way to tell me that I’m wrong and that it’s different. Do you not expect replies pointing out suggested faulty logic? Actually, some posters clearly don’t. And some posters will come here and take you to task for calling her ‘girl’. That’s how FSU works.

Anyways, Anna should be the one responsible for her decision.
 

Wyliefan

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I still don't see these inconsistencies you're talking about. My argument has been that adults should take responsibility and act with maturity in all situations concerning young skaters.

But I don't think we're going to get anywhere with this conversation, so I'm out. Have a nice day.
 

tony

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The age of consent for sex is not the legal age of adulthood in most of the world, so I'm not sure why you're conflating the two. There are plenty of parts of the US where the age of consent is 16. That doesn't magically make 16 year olds adults. And honestly, it's a little weird and gross to conflate the two?

For example, the legal age to vote in Russia is 18 just like it is in the US. So no, by Russian law, Anna isn't more of an adult than a 16 year old American is. And honestly, have you MET a 16 year old? 16 year olds are not good at perspective. Their brains are literally not developed for that. So yes, their adult guardians/the adults in charge of their wellbeing should be adding some perspective to situation.
I knew a post like this was coming. If you want to look at the finer details, then who is to say that you wouldn’t be considering 21 to be ‘an adult’ because of drinking/smoking rights in the US now? Or are we solely saying that it’s based on the ability to vote?

And please don’t be annoying and facetious with the question of whether I’ve met a 16 year old. If you’re going to try to explain to me that ALL 16 year olds are terrible at perspective but suddenly all 18 year olds are completely set and don’t need any adults/guardians, then I’d suggest you look around. I know people into their 20s and 30s that act like they are teens and I know younger people who are very put-together and focused.

I do agree with @clairecloutier though. If anyone wants to PM, feel free.
 

aka_gerbil

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Age of consent in Russia is 16, like it is in a lot of places in the US. The age of majority—the legally defined threshold of adulthood—in Russia is 18, just the same as it is in the US. So, no, Anna isn’t considered an adult yet and the actual adults around her should have been making the decisions and not her.
 

Theatregirl1122

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I knew a post like this was coming. If you want to look at the finer details, then who is to say that you wouldn’t be considering 21 to be ‘an adult’ because of drinking/smoking rights in the US now? Or are we solely saying that it’s based on the ability to vote?

And please don’t be annoying and facetious with the question of whether I’ve met a 16 year old. If you’re going to try to explain to me that ALL 16 year olds are terrible at perspective but suddenly all 18 year olds are completely set and don’t need any adults/guardians, then I’d suggest you look around. I know people into their 20s and 30s that act like they are teens and I know younger people who are very put-together and focused.

I do agree with @clairecloutier though. If anyone wants to PM, feel free.

I don't think 18 year olds are all set, so I don't know where you got that from my post, except that you are reading into it things that aren't there. But you arbitrarily chose to decide that a 16 year old in Russia is the same as an 18 year old in the US by comparing two literally different metrics to make your point, and now you're being defensive and disingenuous. But if that's how you want to be, go forth.

Sorry for being "annoying and facetious" by pointing out the biological fact that children have brains which are not yet developed for thinking about long term consequences. I'll try really hard to avoid neurology and psychology in the future since you find it so annoying and you are my primary audience.
 

tony

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Age of consent in Russia is 16, like it is in a lot of places in the US. The age of majority—the legally defined threshold of adulthood—in Russia is 18, just the same as it is in the US. So, no, Anna isn’t considered an adult yet and the actual adults around her should have been making the decisions and not her.
I see it now and I stand corrected in terms of majority. However, if it’s in regards to legal guardians or parents, then it is them that should have the say and not Eteri Tutberidze. If Anna refused the temperature check (which Tinami or someone else said may not even be correct), that’s on her.
 

NadezhdaNadya

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Age of consent in Russia is 16, like it is in a lot of places in the US. The age of majority—the legally defined threshold of adulthood—in Russia is 18, just the same as it is in the US. So, no, Anna isn’t considered an adult yet and the actual adults around her should have been making the decisions and not her.
They were afraid to piss her off.
 

Ruby999

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Anyone want to discuss the Russian men? Or pairs? I would love to, but most of the discussion on this thread is about the ladies comp (and rumored relationships and weight for some reason). I second the idea of a separate thread for Russin Ladies!
 
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