From Russia With Love [#37]: Summer 2020

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Japanfan

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This practice is an instrumentalisation of woman body: the most deprived woman rent or sell their body. The maternal bond develops before birth in the mother's womb and surrogacy breaks these bonds that develop between woman and fetus during the preganancy. This practice is inhuman for the woman and the child.

Adoption can be equally inhuman, especially if it has been forced on a woman.

I certainly recognize the ethical issues pertinent to surrogacy. But at the same time, there may be woman for whom it is worth the cost. The money earned may support their families for years to come.

And it is also worth mentioning that many women throughout the world have babies they do not want because they do not have access to reproductive care. Women who have no control over their sexuality and are plenty weary from having babies. And lacking in their ability to raise/nurture a child/multiple children.

If we really wanted to combat overpopulation, we would be focusing on those women.
 

hanca

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Adoption can be equally inhuman, especially if it has been forced on a woman.
True, but the only reason why it would be forced on woman in modern societies is because the child has been neglected or abused. The social services just don’t walk around removing children for no reason. After all, it is the court who has the final word, not the social services. So the question is, should we (the society) be inhuman towards the parents and remove their child, or towards the child and let them suffer, potentially be killed due to mistreatment? Should we be worried so much about breaking the bond the child made while in the womb, that we let the parents do whatever they want to to the child, regardless how harmful it is?
 

hanca

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If we really wanted to combat overpopulation, we would be focusing on those women.

Or the governments could go the Chinese way. Order everyone to have max one child. (Or be generous and allow two children).

Why is it alright that someone is judged for wanting to have at least one child and struggling to conceive? Why is it alright that someone is judged for having ‘too many children’, when they are looking after them well and legally they don’t do anything wrong? Why is it ok that someone is imposing on others how they should live, if they not doing anything illegal and don’t harm others
 

Frau Muller

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Most people that undergo IVF or use a surrogate are desperate to have at least one child. There are families with multiple "traditionally made" children. Are they not polluting the planet?

I’ve never understood the desperation to have kids. Traveling and watching ballets is what drove me...my albums and Ballet Library are my babies! That said, I’m glad that people have options. It’s their money to spend on IVF and hospitalizations, after all.

Gee, if Pluschenko’s wife had any idea of the can of worms she’s opened on FSU!!!
 

bladesofgorey

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I don't know if Sharpie has a kid or not and it probably doesn't matter if they do, but to sh!t on people struggling to conceive is really something. Some people want a child or children more than anything else in the world, it's their main dream. Not their only dream, but the one most important to them. Some of those people cannot conceive for whatever reason naturally. I don't understand any of this because I've never had the urge to reproduce, and as much as I've enjoyed working with children and teens I never wanted any of my own. But this isn't about me. I've been close to someone whose heart was smashed in a million places when she couldn't conceive, in part thanks to cancer treatments. She tried IVF and it didn't work, but if it had nobody would have been happier for her than me.

Also overpopulation is a racist myth. The problem is overconsumption. So there's that, yeah.
 

SHARPIE

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Oh ok, let’s throw the racist card at me as I take note of what is happening to our planet 🙄 I don’t have kids, one of the most damaging things you can do. Why should someone’s selfish ass need to exploit a poor woman to be a surrogate for your nth baby be so important?

@hanca, I asked you to stop goading me in Sekret Sources, but here you are, still keeping the fcuck on. Didn‘t really want to come back to this, but you think you can carry this little vendetta on now?


Dont also give a flying shit what anyone else thinks, I stand by my views. If someone got so personally offended by them then that’s not my problem. What’s the difference in saying “I think all x skater fans must be seeing something else I don’t” then someone comes along, “Are you calling me an idiot?” and I say, ”Yes I am”. Because it’s the emotive subject of craving kids everyone is on my fcucking case And somehow, @hanca thinks she can gaslight me on my own site.

Anyway I’m closing the thread off now, not just cos I want the last word, I’m not being goaded into any more responses. If you dislike my views, then crack on, don’t call me a racist or other names, just go elsewhere.
 
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