Dangers of a Trump Presidency--Part 7

Prancer

Your Overlord
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The company I work for has in the last 10 year let go (fired) two men in upper management positions for bullying women, however for one at least they had to pay out his contract.
Was either of them a CEO making racist comments?

All pie in the sky bs. Does AOC, or her fellow Justice "Democrats", ever really explain where they think they're going to get the money for Medicare for All, Public Colleges, Green New Deal, free everything for everyone, etc......? Or how it really will effect the country?
Is this what you mean by hatred and venom toward the US?

You do realize that there are countries that have healthcare for all, free college (I assume that is what you mean by public colleges) and other government benefits. How do these programs really affect their countries? What societal negatives do you see?

The Republican tax changes gave immediate tax relief, on 2018 taxes, to the middle class of this country.
But what is this cut doing for the middle class to come, who are going to have to pay for the tax cut in the future? Do Republicans no longer care about things like the deficit?

AOC's pie in the sky ideas, if implemented, would tax the middle class to death.
Is this what you mean by hatred and venom toward the US?

I think AOC is perfectly aware that her ideas will not be implemented as proposed. This is politics; people make prosposals and work out compromises and get something but rarely everything. That's how the system works. Sometimes people even propose things knowing that they will never pass because they are trying to make points.

But isn't it more about tax efficiency rather than tax cuts or tax increases? What are you funding? Where is your money going? If it's not to the benefit of all, what is it a tax for? All political parties everywhere in the world, have to start listening to what people want their tax dollars spent on. Is it health care? Is it education? What is your money being spent on.
And what do people want it to be spent on? The US is a very rich country; we can afford a lot of nice things. If we can afford to spend trillions on a wall, we can also afford to spend trillions on something not-wall--but it means giving up the wall. Do we want a wall? Do we want something else more? What is it that the taxpayers actually want?
 

demetriosj

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1,408
You do realize that there are countries that have healthcare for all, free college (I assume that is what you mean by public colleges) and other government benefits. How do these programs really affect their countries? What societal negatives do you see?
For one, take a look at Greece.
 

BlueRidge

AYS's snark-sponge
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53,042
For one, take a look at Greece.
I'm not in favor of free everything myself, but that was not the issue with Greece. It was debt and the fact that Greece is on the Euro and couldn't control its own currency flows and the EU powerhouses particularly Germany imposed austerity on Greece. It was the austerity that caused severe conditions in Greece. Granted that was done because of Greece's debt but that's hardly a left/right issue, look at how both Democrats and Republicans have driven up the US debt.

Much of what has happened in the world cannot be boiled down to left and right. Its complex and different solutions create new problems.
 

pat c

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12,087
And what do people want it to be spent on? The US is a very rich country; we can afford a lot of nice things. If we can afford to spend trillions on a wall, we can also afford to spend trillions on something not-wall--but it means giving up the wall. Do we want a wall? Do we want something else more? What is it that the taxpayers actually want?
That's it in a nutshell, to wall or not to wall. ;)

The problem with Greece was people not paying their taxes, I believe.
That was part of it. I listened to a program on CBC a few years ago and Greece has/had an additional tax if you had a swimming pool in your backyard. Now they trusted the people to pay the tax if they had/have one (shaky memory) and very few of course owned up to having a swimming pool. The city of Athens hired a pilot to do a fly by and take pictures. The amount of swimming pools unreported and definitely not taxed was staggering. It was quite humorous. ;)
 

ballettmaus

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I'm not in favor of free everything myself, but that was not the issue with Greece. It was debt and the fact that Greece is on the Euro and couldn't control its own currency flows and the EU powerhouses particularly Germany imposed austerity on Greece. It was the austerity that caused severe conditions in Greece. Granted that was done because of Greece's debt but that's hardly a left/right issue, look at how both Democrats and Republicans have driven up the US debt.
EU regulations say that if a country uses the Euro, their deficit relative to the GPD can't exceed 3% at the end of the preceeding fiscal year. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euro_convergence_criteria

Here's a quick overview of the crisis. https://www.thebalance.com/what-is-the-greece-debt-crisis-3305525

More on the causes: https://www.vox.com/2015/7/1/8871509/greece-charts

Of course, it was all more complex than that but simply put, what got Greece in trouble was money mis-management, living beyond their means and greed of the people in power.
 

BlueRidge

AYS's snark-sponge
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EU regulations say that if a country uses the Euro, their deficit relative to the GPD can't exceed 3% at the end of the preceeding fiscal year. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euro_convergence_criteria

Here's a quick overview of the crisis. https://www.thebalance.com/what-is-the-greece-debt-crisis-3305525

More on the causes: https://www.vox.com/2015/7/1/8871509/greece-charts

Of course, it was all more complex than that but simply put, what got Greece in trouble was money mis-management, living beyond their means and greed of the people in power.
Issues of taxation, spending on social programs and other programs, deficits, these are all complex and approaches vary of course, but how did we go from disagreements about these issues between conservative, liberal, and socialist parties to the kind of hostile and heated rhetoric we see today?

These things are really not the issue in today's politics, and neither is health care or even abortion. The US and Europe have seen the rise of illiberal anti-democratic movements. In the US we have Trump. And now we have people screaming in mass rallies to deport someone who came here as a refugee, and to build walls, etc.

We won't be able to turn the heat down on our politics as long as these rightwing movements are promoting ethnic nationalism, exclusionism, and intolerance. Its a smokescreen when people pretend it is about whether we adopt national health insurance or not or other normal political differences.

ETA: This Anne Applebaum column looks at the struggle of conservatives over the rise of the rightwing nationalist movements.

Conservative intellectuals are at a turning point: Normalize Trump or resist him?

“Send her back” also chimes beautifully with the modern language of the European far right, especially the Identitarians, a conspiracy network that believes in the existence of a secret plot, organized by Jews, to replace white Europeans with brown ones. The group, which assiduously seeks to gain followers in the United States, calls repeatedly for “remigration” — in other words, “send them back” — and promotes the idea online whenever it can.
 
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DORISPULASKI

Watching submarine races
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11,545
The Republican tax changes gave immediate tax relief, on 2018 taxes, to the middle class of this country.
.

Really? Here in CT, it raised our federal taxes so much that it was a key contribution to getting the state out of debt. Our personal state tax is basically a fixed percentage of the federal tax.

As a result of anticipating a higher tax bite, people have raised their tax withholding.
 

mag

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10,804
For one, take a look at Greece.
Or look at New Zealand:

Just like in a family, people chose to spend money in a variety of ways. Ditching the inheritance tax was a huge mistake. People are not owed money they didn’t earn (I am sure I have heard Republicans say that.) Anyone who has billions, earned it with a great deal of help from tax payers and can therefore give some back when they die. They earned that money transporting their goods over roads and rail supported by the tax payers, their properties were protected from theft by tax payer funded police, their companies were protected by laws enacted by government, their overseas investments protected by the strength of the US military.

There is no such thing as a self made man. If people can’t understand this maybe it is time to start charging companies for every minute of police protection, for every inch of road etc etc.
 

misskarne

Handy Emergency Backup Mode
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17,945
For one, take a look at Greece.
Ah, of course. Choosing the worst-case scenario rather than the best.

Now if you'll excuse me, I just noticed the degree on my wall is hanging crooked, so I'll go straighten it. That's the degree, by the way, I earned without having to pay a cent upfront and only have to repay the government for in small increments that come out of my pay only once I was earning above a certain threshold. And I'd best file those papers from my specialist haemotologist appointment - the one I didn't have to pay for because it comes under our public health system. He's found out why things are the way they are for me and diagnosed a medical condition that, if left unobserved and untreated, could be very serious for me. But now that we know, we can keep an eye on it - with regular blood tests that I won't have to pay a cent for - meaning I will be less likely to have complications, in turn keeping me as a productive member of the workforce and making me less likely to need serious medical treatment later.

But before I go - there's a question we keep asking and you keep dodging. What exactly do you think Trump meant by "go back to where you came from"?
 

Prancer

Your Overlord
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For one, take a look at Greece.
There are (I believe) 32 countries with universal health care; why should we look only at Greece?

There are (I believe) roughly 24 countries with free or nearly free college; why should we look only at Greece?

Are the United States and Greece roughly comparable in some way that make them particularly suited for one-to-one comparison? What similarities do you see that lead you to think that the US is at risk of going the way of Greece?

I guess you are just going to gloss right over those other questions I asked.
 

caseyedwards

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12,547
Really? Here in CT, it raised our federal taxes so much that it was a key contribution to getting the state out of debt. Our personal state tax is basically a fixed percentage of the federal tax.

As a result of anticipating a higher tax bite, people have raised their tax withholding.
It’s very interesting!! By almost eliminating The federal deduction that allowed people in high tax states to deduct local taxes from their federal taxes -SALT -it caused a massive tax increase for many people and states!! It used to be that republicans from the northeast blocked republicans from doing that but republicans from the northeast have largely been eliminated because of social issues.
 

mag

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10,804
I couldn’t find another thread better suited to this, and there are some interesting facts about the tax cut that will not actually pay for itself, but mostly it is about what an a$$ Rand Paul is.

 

BlueRidge

AYS's snark-sponge
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53,042
Are the United States and Greece roughly comparable in some way that make them particularly suited for one-to-one comparison? What similarities do you see that lead you to think that the US is at risk of going the way of Greece?
Interested to hear the answer from the poster asked, perhaps I've missed something. But I just want to note that people often don't pay attention to economics and financial factors that can be complex. The US dollar is still basically the world's reserve currency which wikipedia notes means "A reserve currency is a large quantity of currency maintained by central banks and other major financial institutions to prepare for investments, transactions and international debt obligations, or to influence their domestic exchange rate... the United States dollar was considered the world's most dominant reserve currency. The world's need for dollars has allowed the United States government as well as Americans to borrow at lower costs, granting them an advantage in excess of $100 billion per year."

Greece does not have its own currency, it is on the Euro, which means it does not have the same controls over its own financial factors that it would if it had its own currency. If people are reading sources that suggest that Greece's issue was large social programs then they are accessing poor sources that are not providing good information.

ETA: actually was meaning to post this rather beautiful column from conservative columnist Bret Stephens. This gets to my point that our current political conflict is not left vs right, it is open vs closed. You can hold very conservative views and not support Trumpist ethno-nationalism.

Willa Cather knew what made America great.

But, more powerfully, Cather’s novel is a story of a country that can overcome prejudice. The narrator’s grandfather offers succor to the destitute Shimerdas, forgives them their debts, puts petty quarrels aside, and consoles them in their grief. After Ántonia’s father commits suicide, he prays “that if any man there had been remiss toward the stranger come to a far country, God would forgive him and soften his heart.”

It’s in such moments that “My Ántonia” becomes an education in what it means to be American: to have come from elsewhere, with very little; to be mindful, amid every trapping of prosperity, of how little we once had, and were; to protect and nurture those newly arrived, wherever from, as if they were our own immigrant ancestors — equally scared, equally humble, and equally determined.
 
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Susan1

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5,128
https://www.yahoo.com/news/iraqi-refugee-nadia-murad-trump-020709058.html

"All this happened to me. They killed my mom, my six brothers. They left behind them," Murad said.

"Where are they now?" Trump asked.

"They killed them," Murad quickly replied. "They are in the mass grave in Sinjar, and I'm still fighting just to live in safe. Please do something."

"I know the area very well," Trump replied. "I'm going to look into it very strongly."

A couple of good comments underneath -

"Did your parents have any kids who lived Mr. President?"

"The attention span of a marble. Great! And we have him as President."
 

Reuven

Official FSU Alte Kacher
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15,351
Yikes
[/QUOTE]
The paragraph at the bottom of the so-called journalism should tell all we need to know about the veracity of this site:
Content created by
The Daily Caller News Foundation is available without charge to any eligible news publisher that can provide a large audience. For licensing opportunities for this original content, email [email protected].
 

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