Dangers of a Trump Presidency--Part 7

VGThuy

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30,562
The "send her back" chants are really scary. I hope Rep. Omar's district in Minnesota dig in their heels and support her in 2020. How are all the people insisting it wasn't racist or that he didn't mean back to Somalia but back to her home communities going to twist this one?

You know, I've been arguing back and forth for a year...but after that rally, enough is enough. It's time to impeach. I don't even care anymore that we'll get a truly evil person like Pence in office (I am not convinced Trump will be removed by the Senate). Although I am worried that Pence acting somewhat more normal would help him get elected an incumbent in 2020, I think the Dems in Congress need to send a strong message. I would say all of the Reps in Congress but I lost all faith in the Republicans to do the most basic human decent thing anymore.
 
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VGThuy

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I'm also ****ing tired of reading about how more centrist Dems being too afraid to confront Trump's racism. Enough is enough. It's time to be a ****ing Democrat now! Otherwise, just change your party affiliation to Republican. If they cannot even stand up to basic ass racism, then they're utterly useless to be any sort of representative of the party. Stop being Republican-lite. Also, stop being so afraid of your personal position and losing your precious status. YOU CHOSE TO GO INTO PUBLIC SERVICE! Time to do your duty no matter what the risks are. Be a Democrat!

Sorry for ranting. I'm going to draft a letter to send.
 

VGThuy

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30,562
Btw, I learned how they're trying to justify it not being racist. Now they're spreading lies about her getting here illegally, that she married her brother for a green card (at what? age 10?), and that her father was a terrorist back in Somalia. On top of saying she supports Al-Qaeda because unlike everyone else in Congress, she doesn't get the presumption that she doesn't support it which would be obvious by the fact that she's an American citizen, a woman, educated, and took an oath to uphold the Constitution of this country.
 

ballettmaus

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13,281
Btw, I learned how they're trying to justify it not being racist. Now they're spreading lies about her getting here illegally, that she married her brother for a green card (at what? age 10?), and that her father was a terrorist back in Somalia. On top of saying she supports Al-Qaeda because unlike everyone else in Congress, she doesn't get the presumption that she doesn't support it which would be obvious by the fact that she's an American citizen, a woman, educated, and took an oath to uphold the Constitution of this country.
They want to talk about immigration fraud? Let's talk about Melania and that it looks like she worked illegally in the US then.
 

DFJ

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5,307
Go after the judiciary. Then go after the free press, calling them the enemy of the people. Next, go after anyone who doesn't look like you or is critical of you. Does any of this sound familiar? The US is becoming a very scary place. What a shame. Such a beautiful country filled with amazing people. I hope it can pull itself back.
 

caseyedwards

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13,485
Really




What's your definition of easy/what is "easy" referring to?

I guess, I should have asked caseyedwards what they were referring to, too. I assumed they were meaning the process and, unless you have to do more than fill out an application, provide certain documents along with it, do a medical exam and an interview when you immigrate from other countries, I don't find the process all that difficult.
Employer-based immigration might have an extra-layer of documents considering that employers need to take out ads for two consecutive weeks and provide proof why an American isn't qualified to do the job but generally, I don't find it all that complicated.

I think the most difficult part is to find a visa category that allows you to immigrate to begin with.
I meant process. A lot of the people who want to be immigrants from Central America may not have any documents!

“Labor certification.- (i) In general.-Any alien who seeks to enter the United States for the purpose of performing skilled or unskilled labor is inadmissible, unless the Secretary of Labor has determined and certified to the Secretary of State and the Attorney General that- (I) there are not sufficient workers who are able, willing, qualified (or equally qualified in the case of an alien described in clause (ii)) and available at the time of application for a visa and admission to the United States and at the place where the alien is to perform such skilled or unskilled labor, and (II) the employment of such alien will not adversely affect the wages and working conditions of workers in the United States similarly employed. (ii) Certain aliens subject to special rule.-For purposes of clause (i)(I), an alien described in this clause is an alien who- (I) is a member of the teaching profession, or (II) has exceptional ability in the sciences or the arts.”
 

VGThuy

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30,562
Go after the judiciary. Then go after the free press, calling them the enemy of the people. Next, go after anyone who doesn't look like you or is critical of you. Does any of this sound familiar? The US is becoming a very scary place. What a shame. Such a beautiful country filled with amazing people. I hope it can pull itself back.
"Fascism may be defined as a form of political behavior marked by obsessive preoccupation with community decline, humiliation, or victimhood and by compensatory cults of unity, energy, and purity, in which a mass-based party of committed nationalist militants, working in uneasy but effective collaboration with traditional elites, abandons democratic liberties and pursues with redemptive violence and without ethical or legal restraints goals of internal cleansing and external expansion.”

- Robert O. Paxton
 

ballettmaus

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13,281
I meant process. A lot of the people who want to be immigrants from Central America may not have any documents!

“Labor certification.- (i) In general.-Any alien who seeks to enter the United States for the purpose of performing skilled or unskilled labor is inadmissible, unless the Secretary of Labor has determined and certified to the Secretary of State and the Attorney General that- (I) there are not sufficient workers who are able, willing, qualified (or equally qualified in the case of an alien described in clause (ii)) and available at the time of application for a visa and admission to the United States and at the place where the alien is to perform such skilled or unskilled labor, and (II) the employment of such alien will not adversely affect the wages and working conditions of workers in the United States similarly employed. (ii) Certain aliens subject to special rule.-For purposes of clause (i)(I), an alien described in this clause is an alien who- (I) is a member of the teaching profession, or (II) has exceptional ability in the sciences or the arts.”
I don't view that as a hoop to jump through though. I see it as one of the requirements/qualifications that you have to meet when you want to apply for an (immigrant) visa of a certain category/as a general restriction as to who is allowed to enter the United States. I'm positive other countries have similar restrictions.

This also doesn't just apply to immigrants from Central America.
 

once_upon

New condo owner
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13,158
I think the election cycle is going to be violent. It was escalate from :send her back" to lynch mobs.

All my representatives in Congress are Republicans and not a single one spoke up. That includes Ben Sasse for those who think he is different. Sasse, Fischer, Bacon, Fortenberry all bow to the Republican party line.

There will be civil war and I live in the wrong state.
 

misskarne

Handy Emergency Backup Mode
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19,012
Go after the judiciary. Then go after the free press, calling them the enemy of the people. Next, go after anyone who doesn't look like you or is critical of you. Does any of this sound familiar? The US is becoming a very scary place. What a shame. Such a beautiful country filled with amazing people. I hope it can pull itself back.
I remember seeing the sentiment expressed on social media that when young people were wondering what incredible historic event they would witness, IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE SPACE TRAVEL.
 

Daena

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rfisher

Let the skating begin
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61,167
This is another one of those areas in the US where the answer is: it depends. We have quotas and different categories of immigration (family, work, etc) and the quotas are different for each category and for country of origin. This results in HUGE backlogs for some categories.

If you want to immigrate legally from Mexico, it can take DECADES to go through the process to immigrate legally. Decades. As in 20 years. (And slightly longer if you want to immigrate from the Philippines.)

OTOH, if you want to immigrate from Canada (and a few other places), it's much easier.

Other places are in between, some easier than others. Plus it depends on what category you fall into. If you marry an US citizen, I believe the wait is about 2 years to get a green card and it doesn't matter what country you come from or what kind of work you do.

This article talks about some of the numbers as it fact checks a certain claim made as part of an immigration debate:

Yes, my very white student from England had no problem getting citizenship. My very black student from Ghana, had a very different story.
 

Coco

Rotating while Russian!
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Snopes pretty effectively debunked the rumor about her brother and it was for her brother to get his green card not for her that was the rumor. She was naturalized before she was ever married.

When the story first broke, the New York Times at a headline about it and referred to the squad as "Rogue" members of Congress.

Now that is some b*** right there.
 

BlueRidge

AYS's snark-sponge
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54,908
Btw, I learned how they're trying to justify it not being racist. Now they're spreading lies about her getting here illegally, that she married her brother for a green card (at what? age 10?), and that her father was a terrorist back in Somalia. On top of saying she supports Al-Qaeda because unlike everyone else in Congress, she doesn't get the presumption that she doesn't support it which would be obvious by the fact that she's an American citizen, a woman, educated, and took an oath to uphold the Constitution of this country.
This is reaching Nazi levels. I'm frightened.

This is dangerous:

President Trump road-tested his attacks on four Democratic congresswomen on Wednesday, casting them as avatars of anti-American radicalism and reiterating his call for them to leave the country, in a preview of a slash-and-burn re-election strategy that depicts Mr. Trump as a bulwark against a “dangerous, militant hard left.”

“These left-wing ideologues see our nation as a force for evil,” Mr. Trump told a packed arena. To roaring applause, he railed against what he called “hate-filled extremists who are constantly trying to tear our country down.”

“They don’t love our country,” he said. “I think, in some cases, they hate our country. You know what? If they don’t love it, tell them to leave it.”
 
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VGThuy

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30,562
Snopes pretty effectively debunked the rumor about her brother and it was for her brother to get his green card not for her that was the rumor. She was naturalized before she was ever married.

When the story first broke, the New York Times at a headline about it and referred to the squad as "Rogue" members of Congress.

Now that is some b*** right there.
Thank you. All the initial posts I saw made it sound like they were screaming she was trying to get a green card. I think some of them had no idea what the actual lie was supposed to be and just heard green card and marrying brother and jumped to that conclusion.

Re: NYT, I don’t know what’s up with The NY Times but they’ve been doing crap like that for a while and have been called out for their lack of guts in characterizing Trump in the past.
 

BlueRidge

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Thank you. All the initial posts I saw made it sound like they were screaming she was trying to get a green card. I think some of them had no idea what the actual lie was supposed to be and just heard green card and marrying brother and jumped to that conclusion.

Re: NYT, I don’t know what’s up with The NY Times but they’ve been doing crap like that for a while and have been called out for their lack of guts in characterizing Trump in the past.
I've cancelled my NY Times subscription. I can use the money better elsewhere.
 

clairecloutier

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So I found this Politico article yesterday quite depressing. It talks about the Democrats' current approach to force Trump into compliance with oversight. Basically it sounds like the approach is to pile up contempt citations, instances of lack of cooperation, etc., in the hopes of going to court and getting a judge or judges to rule that Trump HAS to comply. The problem is that if the court cases come up against conservative or Trump-appointed judges, the rulings could go against Congress and actually wind up reducing Congress's oversight role.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/07/17/democrats-oversight-strategy-mueller-1417908

My personal takeaway from this is that, increasingly, with all of Trump's conservative judicial appts, including Gorsuch and Kavanaugh, I question if we can trust the judicial system in this country to act fairly and honorably. I certainly don't trust the current Justice Dept, as they shut down investigations into Trump and do everything they can to shield him from accountability.

Also, after Trump's public attacks on four duly elected Congresswomen and his inciting of those horrific chants at his hate rally last night, I feel we cannot trust the executive branch of the government either. It seems pretty clear that, left in power long enough, Trump and the Republicans might possibly do a lot of damage in limiting voting rights and other rights of minorities in this country (and by minorities, I mean anyone who is not a straight white Christian male). Call me extreme for saying this, but honestly, who knows what might happen if they were in power for, say, 15 years. I mean, until this week, I don't think anyone thought it was possible that a sitting President would publicly attack the rightful citizenship and patriotism of elected Congresswomen and incite hatred and threats toward them. Yet here we are.

I have tried to be patient with Pelosi's gradualist approach so far but I just feel that the House needs to consider opening an impeachment inquiry. I don't see what else we can do. The gradualist approach is taking too long and in the end may yield nothing and in the meantime the overall impression (and, to be frank, the reality) is that Pelosi and the Democrats are doing nothing to stop Trump, and he is getting away with everything, and doing a great deal of damage to our society.
 

skatesindreams

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29,732
The electorate isn't ready to accept it yet, IMO.

Even if the House could bring a compelling case; the Senate would never convict him.
His base would forever consider Trump a "victim".
 

clairecloutier

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The electorate isn't ready to accept it yet, IMO.

Even if the House could bring a compelling case; the Senate would never convict him.
His base would forever consider Trump a "victim".

The electorate wasn't initially ready to accept a Nixon impeachment, either. Polling was against a Nixon impeachment before it happened. But as impeachment went on and Nixon's crimes were exposed, his approval ratings fell.

As to the hardcore Trump base, aren't their votes pretty much predetermined, regardless of what happens with impeachment?
 

nylynnr

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The electorate wasn't initially ready to accept a Nixon impeachment, either. Polling was against a Nixon impeachment before it happened. But as impeachment went on and Nixon's crimes were exposed, his approval ratings fell.
Nixon was not impeached. He resigned when confronted with likely impeachment.
 

BlueRidge

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This is important for people who think Trump's hostility toward the Squad is supposed to be hurting Democrats with Democratic and Independent moderates.

You are wrong. Trump's attacks are ALL ABOUT HIS BASE. According to this column,

3) An Economist-YouGov poll shows that members of "the Squad" are more strongly disliked by Republicans than all the Democratic presidential candidates and party leaders.
The survey tested the images of 26 Democrats. Omar, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (N.Y.) and Rashida Tlaib (Mich.) are already hugely unpopular among Trump voters. For example, AOC is viewed “very unfavorably” by 74 percent of voters who supported Trump in 2016, while Omar is at 65 percent and Tlaib is at 58 percent.

All of them are better known among Republicans than Democrats, which suggests that a steady stream of coverage in conservative media has elevated them as potential Democratic bogeywomen,” Aaron Blake observes. “Trump is tilling fertile soil.
Granted some Democratic moderates are responding with fear of Trump and peddling the idea that Dems should throw the Squad under the bus, but mostly those are people who spend a lot of time on conservative media or with people who spend a lot of time on conservative media. You're not fooling anyone, folks, and you know who you are.

In any case, the important point is that this hate mongering is not about making the Squad the "face" of the Democratic Party it is about raising the emotional state of Trump's base to a fevered boil.

 

BittyBug

Wishing it weren't so
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22,202
Nixon was not impeached. He resigned when confronted with likely impeachment.
Re Nixon - I think many people interchange "impeachment hearings" with the actual act of impeachment (which would be the result of a formal vote in both chambers of Congress). It is true that public sentiment did a 180 based on evidence that was presented during the impeachment hearings, and also true that the inevitability of his impeachment due to the information exposed during those hearings cause Nixon to resign.

(Long winded way of saying that I think @clairecloutier was referring to impeachment hearings.)
 

skateboy

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6,709
The electorate isn't ready to accept it yet, IMO.

Even if the House could bring a compelling case; the Senate would never convict him.
His base would forever consider Trump a "victim".
I agree.

I've been patient with Pelosi, because I really do think she knows how to play this game. My guess is that she's waiting for the Mueller testimony and its aftermath. While he probably will not offer anything not already written in his report, I feel sure that the majority of Americans have not read the report and more than likely won't. You know the Dems will grill Mueller and wring every piece of damning evidence against Trump out of him. Then Mueller's answers will make all the headlines and effectively get into the consciousness of the general public... and there will be no denying the obvious.

Pursuing impeachment earlier in the year would have served zero purpose. I'm expecting it to happen around September or October... once Trump's crimes have been exposed, without question. Barr, Roger Stone and others will likely be going down as well. At that point, and only at that point, will impeachment will have an impact, as we head into the election year. It could even turn enough Republican senators against Trump to the point where removal of office (or, like Nixon, Trump's own resignation) may be inevitable.
 

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