Dangers of a Trump Presidency--Part 7

BlueRidge

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At this point we really need to stop calling this a government shutdown and call it what it is: a hostage taking, with 800,000 victims. Half of those people are working without pay, so clearly the government isn't shutdown.

And Trump the hostage taker offered to negotiate. He said to Nancy, what will you give me if I let the hostages go, will you give me my wall? Nancy said "no." And Trump stormed out and said "She won't negotiate!"

The guy doesn't even have the guts to just declare his darn emergency and move forward. He has no leadership skills and he doesn't have any guts either.
 

Vagabond

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At this point we really need to stop calling this a government shutdown and call it what it is: a hostage taking, with 800,000 victims. Half of those people are working without pay, so clearly the government isn't shutdown.
It isn't just the employees. It's also people needing federal farm and home loans, people needing assistance from the I.R.S., people traveling on commercial flights, etc. It's all of us. It's America Held Hostage, Day 21.
 
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BlueRidge

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It isn't just the employees. It's also people needing federal farm and loan, people needing assistance from the I.R.S., people traveling on commercial flights, etc. It's all of us. It's American Held Hostage, Day 21.
True.

And for no reason. He could be having this fight over his wall without taking us hostage. He could have used the "I'll declare an emergency and make Congress irrelevant" as his threat. Of course no one thought of the emergency idea until after he'd taken the hostages since its all seat of the pants whatever Trump lashes out about at the given moment.
 

Prancer

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I read yesterday that Trump wants some federal agencies to recall more workers to work without pay so that some government services that directly affect the public, like tax refunds and loans and food stamps, all go on so that the political fallout is minimized. Never mind that the federal workers will have fallout that will be shared with their friends and families and that it's probably illegal to recall people who aren't essential; they're all Democrats, anyway :rolleyes:.

At least my nephew has stopped posting things on Facebook about how non-essential government workers should, by definition, be fired anyway, as they clearly don't actually do anything :rolleyes:.
 

rfisher

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If the shutdown continues, some of those "essential" workers will be furloughed. The VA health administration will stop holding some clinics and employees will be furloughed. It goes by seniority. I worked for the VA and we always knew this was a possibility. It had only happened once, but now that this shutdown is going to move up to number one in length, the VA will start. I've already told our clinical coordinator to start talking to the local VA about the number of radiographers available as that impacts our students.
 

BlueRidge

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I know there's no one reading this who supports Trump but I'm thinking that maybe Trump supporters are going, "He can't get Congress to approve the Wall" what other choice does he have but to bypass Congress with an emergency declaration?

What I would say to those people is this: Here's how it works in a system with three branches of government where the president can't just dictate what he wants: Trump says to The People: Congress will not fund our Wall. Well there is an election in two years and together we will show the door to all those voting against Our Wall. And we're going to start that campaign now so that we ensure that those who oppose Our very Important and very beautiful Wall will no longer be there in January 2021. I will be there and We Will Have Our Wall!

This is what we have elections for. If you don't have the votes in Congress for something, you go out and run candidates who will provide those votes you want in the next Congress.
 

Vash01

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I know there's no one reading this who supports Trump but I'm thinking that maybe Trump supporters are going, "He can't get Congress to approve the Wall" what other choice does he have but to bypass Congress with an emergency declaration?

What I would say to those people is this: Here's how it works in a system with three branches of government where the president can't just dictate what he wants: Trump says to The People: Congress will not fund our Wall. Well there is an election in two years and together we will show the door to all those voting against Our Wall. And we're going to start that campaign now so that we ensure that those who oppose Our very Important and very beautiful Wall will no longer be there in January 2021. I will be there and We Will Have Our Wall!

This is what we have elections for. If you don't have the votes in Congress for something, you go out and run candidates who will provide those votes you want in the next Congress.
The trouble is that many of them probably don’t understand how our system of checks and balances works. They don’t understand or value democracy. They probably never did or didn’t care.

They don’t know that democracy made our country successful, avoided World War III, made America the world leader. They are into hero worship. Like the Hollywood movies one hero saves the world. These people are politically uneducated, even if they may have post graduate degrees. They were always around but somehow we survived until Trump came along.

They are faithful to only Trump. They find justification for every evil act of his and blame someone else, just like he wants them to. They are putting everyone, including themselves, in danger but they don’t know it.

I feel quite hopeless about the future. I am not sure things will get better after 2020. It could take a few lifetimes to turn things around. The damage is so severe, and I hold the Republican Congress accountable for this. Instead of providing the check on the President, they are dragging the whole country into a deep ditch.
 

Prancer

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I know there's no one reading this who supports Trump but I'm thinking that maybe Trump supporters are going, "He can't get Congress to approve the Wall" what other choice does he have but to bypass Congress with an emergency declaration?
Yes, they are (Obstructive Democrats!).

What amazes me is that the emergency declaration is being openly discussed as a face-saving maneuver on the part of Trump--he can declare an emergency, get slapped down in court and then say that he did everything he could to appease his supporters. And by openly, I don't mean in just the MSM. This is being discussed by people like Rush Limbaugh. How can people support someone who is behaving like this? It would be one thing if they thought Trump sincerely believed that there is a crisis and only the wall will solve it (and to be fair, there are some who do). But to think that this sort of cynical, narcissistic, destructive move is acceptable because Trump will save face is just :eek: to me.
 

rfisher

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I think it's because most people would rather dig in and close their eyes with a lalalalalalalala I can't hear you, than admit, even to themselves, they were conned.
 

mag

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They are faithful to only Trump. They find justification for every evil act of his and blame someone else, just like he wants them to. They are putting everyone, including themselves, in danger but they don’t know it.
Trump supporters are not the only ones. At least they have the excuse that they believe him. All those people who didn’t vote, or voted for a candidate other than Hillary are also to blame. Trump’s psychopath tendencies were on full display for everyone to see. Anyone who felt safe wasting their vote simply did not want to see what was right in front of them.

Trump has never negotiated a deal in his life, or at least had not in the last 40 years. This is what he does. He decides what he wants (not based on anything other than he wants it) he insists people give him what he want, when they say no he throw a temper tantrum. At this point people either give in (his family and employees do because he controls the money.) For everyone else he employs a scorched earth approach by bringing lawsuits where he uses the courts to run people out of money.

I believe I have suggested this before. Read “Snakes in Suits, When Psychopaths Go to Work.”

Interesting comments from a past Trump executive https://youtu.be/ZOpMrOsK1BA
 
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BlueRidge

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Yes, they are (Obstructive Democrats!).

What amazes me is that the emergency declaration is being openly discussed as a face-saving maneuver on the part of Trump--he can declare an emergency, get slapped down in court and then say that he did everything he could to appease his supporters. And by openly, I don't mean in just the MSM. This is being discussed by people like Rush Limbaugh. How can people support someone who is behaving like this? It would be one thing if they thought Trump sincerely believed that there is a crisis and only the wall will solve it (and to be fair, there are some who do). But to think that this sort of cynical, narcissistic, destructive move is acceptable because Trump will save face is just :eek: to me.
As far as Republican officials and commentators go is this because they really fear that Trump can't psychologically handle "losing" on this? Are they simply afraid of him doing something berserk if he doesn't get something to save face?

I think a lot of his supporters just don't avail themselves of very much information, kind of like a sports fan who cheers on the team without really delving into all the details of the game.
 

BittyBug

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This is being discussed by people like Rush Limbaugh. How can people support someone who is behaving like this? It would be one thing if they thought Trump sincerely believed that there is a crisis and only the wall will solve it (and to be fair, there are some who do). But to think that this sort of cynical, narcissistic, destructive move is acceptable because Trump will save face is just :eek: to me.
It's not just Rush Limbaugh. Lindsay Graham, who is now the head of the Senate Judiciary Committee, has publicly expressed not only his support for Trump proceeding in this way, he is actually *urging* Trump to do so.

So much for the rule of law. :wall:
 

Prancer

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It's not just Rush Limbaugh. Lindsay Graham, who is now the head of the Senate Judiciary Committee, has publicly expressed not only his support for Trump proceeding in this way, he is actually *urging* Trump to do so.
Yes, I've seen that, but that's a little different, I think, from flat-out saying that he should do it because he will fail but have an excuse for failure.

ETA: An editorial in the Washington Examiner openly talking about how this a face-saving move for Trump (or at least that that's how it's being perceived) and cautioning against the future implications of this move.
 

KCC

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I venture onto the Fox News website now and then to see how they are framing these same issues, and I am rarely able to get beyond the headlines. I know that I need to try harder to do that, but it is not easy to read stuff like: "Dems bungle the stupidest federal shutdown in US history".
 

Prancer

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Interestingly enough, I actually think this is what Trump meant originally when he said Mexico would pay for the wall. Oh, I'm sure he thought he could get them to kick in a few bucks by arguing that the wall benefited them as well as us. (And before he made it political suicide for Mexico to do that, they very well might have supplied something to get the wall built.) But I also think he was thinking that Mexico would put more money into US coffers to offset the cost of the wall.
Trump is now saying that he never literally meant that Mexico would pay for the wall and always meant that Mexico would pay indirectly, but in the way of all things posted on the web, the record says something else:

It's an easy decision for Mexico: make a one-time payment of $5-10 billion to ensure that $24 billion continues to flow into their country year after year.

https://web.archive.org/web/20160409010318/http://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/pay-for-the-wall

Obviously that check wouldn't pay for the wall, but how ironic is it that that amount is now the sticking point?
 

BlueRidge

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Marco Rubio still not liking the idea of declaring a national emergency, "Are you ready for President Kamala Harris declaring a national emergency over climate change? "

I just really liked the sound of the "President Kamala Harris" part. :saint:
 

BlueRidge

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From the Guardian:

S&P Global estimate that the border wall shutdown has already cost the economy $3.6bn, and in another two weeks will have cost $6bn.


Keen watchers will note that $6bn is more than the $5.7bn that Trump is demanding to build the wall.
So by Trump's way of figuring paying for stuff, that means, if he hadn't forced a shut down of the government he could have paid for the Wall? :shuffle:

We, as a country, are shooting ourselves in the foot. Its idiotic.
 

Vash01

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Is this stupid shutdown a reason enough (among many others) to impeach this jerk? He has put All of us in danger. FDA cannot Do its job. The IRS cannot process tax refunds. TSA cannot do its job....the list goes on. This could be the perfect time for a foreign power to strike. This is a National Emergency, but not the type Trump is claiming. Someone has to be able to do something to remove this pathetic petulant child from that presidential chair and save us all.
 

BlueRidge

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@BlueRidge, I hugely and bigly agree!! Bleffing Covfefe on that! Whoop! :40beers:(y)
here you go, your next president Kamala Harris:

"The president is holding the American people hostage over this vanity project," said next-president Kamala Harris. "This is a crisis of his own making."

America held 'hostage': Kamala Harris, eyeing 2020, slams Trump over the shutdown (NBCNews)

(click the link and scroll down for fantastic embedded video of Sen. Harris on MSNBC Morning Joe.)
 

WillyElliot

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I love Kamala Harris! However, in my opinion the Dems really need to go with 'establishment' and by that I mean Biden. No novelties, and though I disagree with it, many think a black woman running for president at this time is not viable for POTUS. I would fully support a Biden/Harris ticket. Trump has turned America into chaos. I think Biden represents a peaceful 8 years under Obama that voters want to go back to.
 

WillyElliot

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Is this stupid shutdown a reason enough (among many others) to impeach this jerk? He has put All of us in danger. FDA cannot Do its job. The IRS cannot process tax refunds. TSA cannot do its job....the list goes on. This could be the perfect time for a foreign power to strike. This is a National Emergency, but not the type Trump is claiming. Someone has to be able to do something to remove this pathetic petulant child from that presidential chair and save us all.
This has crossed my mind too. And I do believe Trump is Putin's puppet, so this might be exactly the time to attack the US.

Does anyone remember that false alarm nuclear threat in Hawaii last year? And when Trump was told about it (he was on the golf course, of course), he just kept playing golf. As the protector of this country and CIC, he should be expected to drop everything and get to the bottom of this, because someone breached the protocol, and I hardly believe it was just one stupid employee accidentally sending off a real nuclear threat warning. It could have been a practice run-through for a foreign power. Trump was so nonchalant about it, which made me wonder if he knew about it in advance. Well, really, he probably didn't care is most likely, he's playing golf. A nuclear threat isn't worth stopping his golf swing.
 

Simone411

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I love Kamala Harris! However, in my opinion the Dems really need to go with 'establishment' and by that I mean Biden. No novelties, and though I disagree with it, many think a black woman running for president at this time is not viable for POTUS. I would fully support a Biden/Harris ticket. Trump has turned America into chaos. I think Biden represents a peaceful 8 years under Obama that voters want to go back to.
Or vice versa. I like your way of thinking, but I also think it would work as a Harris/Biden ticket.
 

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