Dangers of a Trump Presidency--Part 7

DORISPULASKI

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Gardner and Collins are up for re-election if memory serves. I don't know about the other two.
Lisa Murkowski last ran in 2016, so she will be up again in 2022. Murkowski is the closest thing the Republicans have to a moderate Senator these days.

However, in 2010 she was defeated in the primary by a Tea Partier. She won in the general election as a write in! Her most reliable sources of support are Native corporations and PACs, teachers' unions, and firefighters' unions, so she is not relying on typical Republican donors
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/nov/18/nation/la-na-alaska-senate-20101118

One of her current interests is reviving Heidi Heitkamp's bill to help solve crimes against Native Americans (Heidi, a Democrat, was defeated in 2018.)
https://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-fg-native-american-bill-20181228-story.html

"It's disappointing that one Republican member of Congress blocked Savanna's Act from passing this year," Heitkamp said in a statement. "But fortunately, Rep. Goodlatte won't be around to block it in the new Congress. I've talked with Sen. Murkowski about Savanna's Act and I'm so proud that she will reintroduce my bill in the new year."

Shelley Moore Capito represents WV, a state which voted strongly for Trump, and yet who reelected Sen. Joe Manchin (D) last year. She is up for election in 2020. Her 2014 win was rather narrow.

WV has a high percentage of people on foodstamps (who are threatened by this shutdown).
https://www.cheatsheet.com/culture/states-people-food-stamps.html/
and WV implemented the Medicaid expansion, so it is an ACA using state (6th highest percentage-check second graph)
http://acasignups.net/16/12/26/stat...-already-enrolled-highest-percent-their-total

It is an interesting state.
 

BlueRidge

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Prancer

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What I don’t understand is why the Democrats are not clearly spelling out the consequences of even giving Trump even an inch on this. They need to forget all the reasonable arguments, forget about the fact that the wall won’t do what Trump says it will do, and just keep repeating one thing: If they give Trump an inch on this, next time he wants something that Congress won’t pass, he will shut down the government again. And the next time, and the next time. Giving in to terrorists does not work and that is exactly how Trump is behaving.
Because if they make that argument, what they are saying is that this is all about resisting Trump and I don't think that is at all the message Nancy Pelosi wants to send. She wants to exploit fractures in the GOP; if the Dems make this all about not working with Trump, the GOP will band together in support of the President. By focusing on narrower issues, the Dems give some of the GOP breathing room to say "I back the President, but disagree with him on this particular point because of the issues and how they affect my constituents."

He's exactly right. Set this precedent and you don't know what the other party will do with it in the future. We can't have a democracy and have presidents "govern" by emergency declarations.
See: Executive Order, use of by President.
 

rfisher

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Lisa Murkowski last ran in 2016, so she will be up again in 2022. Murkowski is the closest thing the Republicans have to a moderate Senator these days.

However, in 2010 she was defeated in the primary by a Tea Partier. She won in the general election as a write in! Her most reliable sources of support are Native corporations and PACs, teachers' unions, and firefighters' unions, so she is not relying on typical Republican donors
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/nov/18/nation/la-na-alaska-senate-20101118

One of her current interests is reviving Heidi Heitkamp's bill to help solve crimes against Native Americans (Heidi, a Democrat, was defeated in 2018.)
https://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-fg-native-american-bill-20181228-story.html




Shelley Moore Capito represents WV, a state which voted strongly for Trump, and yet who reelected Sen. Joe Manchin (D) last year. She is up for election in 2020. Her 2014 win was rather narrow.

WV has a high percentage of people on foodstamps (who are threatened by this shutdown).
https://www.cheatsheet.com/culture/states-people-food-stamps.html/
and WV implemented the Medicaid expansion, so it is an ACA using state (6th highest percentage-check second graph)
http://acasignups.net/16/12/26/stat...-already-enrolled-highest-percent-their-total

It is an interesting state.
It's also a state that is going to be reeling from the GOP failure to reenact the coal company tax that funds Black Lung benefits and the coal mining pension protections. Almost half the coal mining companies were from out of state and the practice was to mine everything out then declare bankruptcy so they could default on pension plans and not have to do environmental clean up.
 

BlueRidge

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See: Executive Order, use of by President.
I don't think Executive Orders are the same as Emergency Declarations are they?

I am not in favor of governing by executive order either, and this endless standoff of immigration certainly goes back to Obama's questionable use of executive order as well. I think an Emergency Declaration is another step down the road to dis-empowering Congress and undermining democracy. But I do think the problems began with Obama trying to circumvent a dead-locked Congress with executive orders on immigration.

I feel like its not going to be any president who breaks this impasse. It is going to take a Congress with leadership from both parties making ugly compromises.

I can guarantee you I won't like the compromise, but god knows we need compromise comprehensive immigration reform that can end this political stalemate for a generation or we're going to fail as a democracy.
 

Prancer

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I don't think Executive Orders are the same as Emergency Declarations are they?
No. My point was:

the problems began with Obama trying to circumvent a dead-locked Congress with executive orders on immigration.
I've often thought the same thing about the way Mitch McConnell has used his power in the Senate. Yes, while YOU are in power, you are getting your way, but you are also establishing a precedent that will hold when you aren't in power. And more importantly for the rest of us, what's good for your party and career is not necessarily good for the country, whatever you might tell yourself.

The one good thing I can see coming out of the Trump Presidency is that it should force Congress to consider defining executive powers, because even if he doesn't get his way, we can all see now how not establishing limits is dangerous.
 

BlueRidge

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No. My point was:



I've often thought the same thing about the way Mitch McConnell has used his power in the Senate. Yes, while YOU are in power, you are getting your way, but you are also establishing a precedent that will hold when you aren't in power. And more importantly for the rest of us, what's good for your party and career is not necessarily good for the country, whatever you might tell yourself.

The one good thing I can see coming out of the Trump Presidency is that it should force Congress to consider defining executive powers, because even if he doesn't get his way, we can all see now how not establishing limits is dangerous.
I'm sort of not optimistic though. :(
 

ballettmaus

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The one good thing I can see coming out of the Trump Presidency is that it should force Congress to consider defining executive powers, because even if he doesn't get his way, we can all see now how not establishing limits is dangerous.
I'm hoping so but at the moment, I don't see it happening. Republicans don't seem to be willing to acknowledge that the executive powers are too broad, so I'm expecting them to sweep everything Trump under the rug once he's gone and if he is going to declare a national emergency, I'm expecting them to make excuses and stand by him. I haven't really seen Democrats acknowledge the need to define executive powers either. There was that one proposal to amend the Constitution but other than that?



On a different subject: An evangelical group wants LGBTQs removed from the anti-lynching bill before the House takes it up for a vote. Sickening! https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc...wants-gays-removed-anti-lynching-bill-n956831
 

ballettmaus

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It looks like Barr found some time in his busy shutdown schedule to meet with Klobuchar after all. Why did Democrats have to go public first? https://twitter.com/amyklobuchar/status/1083385709522796545


It seems that the WH is still trying to get their national emergency https://twitter.com/kaitlancollins/status/1083413619939966978



ETA: I'm also reading that 12 Republicans voted with Democrats to fund HUD/Transportation https://twitter.com/jimsciutto/status/1083484240057155585 and that several Senators are "huddling" in McConnell's office https://twitter.com/jenhab/status/1083393634588872704
 
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Peaches LaTour

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There are protests taking place all the time. But if you want large protests with lots of people to take place with regularity, you will have to figure out a way to give those protestors the free time to protest. There are reasons that most of the protestors of the 60s were college students, just as there are reasons you don't see a lot of college students protesting now.
But the 1960 college-age students who had time to protest-march are now retirees who also have time to protest-march.

The woman's movement protests have given the Metoo movement momentum. I don't think you need regular protest-marches to make an impact.

IMO, too much repetitive protesting-marching makes your point dull in eyes of national news. And you don't want them turning a blind eye to your cause.
 

once_upon

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the longer this goes on, the more helpless people feel. The economy is going to tank all over a wall. The wall that will not do anything - just a monument to the president. He really doesn't care about illegal immigration - heck he hires many of them because they work for less than anyone else would.
My nephew is one of the TSA agents not being paid. I'm pretty sure my brother will help him out, but not everyone has that stop gap for them.
If their paycheck stub says $0.00 what happens to their health insurance and medical care? they aren't able to pay their share, insurance lapses and can it deny them insurance when they do get paid?
 

Sparks

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If their paycheck stub says $0.00 what happens to their health insurance and medical care? they aren't able to pay their share, insurance lapses and can it deny them insurance when they do get paid?
Great question.
When I was working for the State, I was so ill that I had to take leave without pay. I had to pay the entire health insurance bill for that month.
 

peibeck

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@ballettmaus I thought I read earlier this week that the Trump WH is already threatening to cut off the funding for California fire relief.

ETA: I found the link: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/09/tru...l-funding-for-california-wildfire-relief.html

* * * * *

In other news, my co-worker's son is active duty Coast Guard. During lunch she had him on speakerphone and we were offering help/support. He is not getting paid during the shutdown. But luckily he has some savings and has found a second job he goes to in the afternoons after his CG duties are done.

He said because of the shutdown the Coast Guard will be out of fuel for ships and helicopters by this weekend, and have no funds to buy more fuel. In other words: no patrolling for drugs or other types of smuggling coming in through waterway ports, and no rescue missions for vehicles in distress on the oceans or Great Lakes. :eek: Talk about a security crisis that is needless.

In other sad news, he said they have been put on alert that President Carter is very, very ill. (i.e. we may have to prepare for another presidential funeral).
 

Vash01

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ballettmaus

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Trump was his ‘Taj Mahal’ or his ‘Great Wall’for historians.
It would probably end up being more like the Berlin wall... It is part of the history books... :shuffle:


It could drive many federal employees into bankruptcy.
Disgusting man.
I just saw a comment from someone who pointed out that many have security clearance and with bills piling up could be taken advantage of.
 

Japanfan

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@ballettmaus He said because of the shutdown the Coast Guard will be out of fuel for ships and helicopters by this weekend, and have no funds to buy more fuel. In other words: no patrolling for drugs or other types of smuggling coming in through waterway ports, and no rescue missions for vehicles in distress on the oceans or Great Lakes. :eek: Talk about a security crisis that is needless.
How ironic that Trump is compromising security at airports and on land because he wants to build a wall for reasons of. . . security.

Just another example of how stupid he is.
 

Vash01

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It would probably end up being more like the Berlin wall... It is part of the history books... :shuffle:




I just saw a comment from someone who pointed out that many have security clearance and with bills piling up could be taken advantage of.
Tear down that wall, Mr. Trump!

Yes, the security people are extremely vulnerable and so is our country right now.
 

Vash01

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We all know about RBG’s recent surgery. She is recovering at home, but she missed the oral arguments.

The classless DT is already talking about possibly replacing her. The doctor said her recovery is proceeding well and everything is normal.
 

ballettmaus

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If someone divulges classified information because they get caught up in something out of desperation or if something happens at an airport or if there is an outbreak because food inspectors aren't doing their jobs I wouldn't call that winning.

I know he doesn't think that far ahead and probably isn't capable of understanding it but Republicans are. They may not care but they should because they're the ones blocking the Democrats' efforts to reopen the government and allowed it to go on this far in the first place. So, if anything happens, it can be blamed on them as well.
 

Japanfan

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It would probably end up being more like the Berlin wall... It is part of the history books... :shuffle:
And that wall came down, which many thought was a world-changing/watershed moment.

And Pink Floyd wrote a song about it and made a film about it, and it seemed to become etched into the collective conscience. I still remember a scene from the film - a little girl picking up a molotov cocktain in the debris left around what had been the wall.

It would seem that history is just repeating itself. :(

Are any of those seemingly world-changing/watershed moments really authentic?
 

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