Dangers of a Trump Presidency--Part 7

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Guess what? It's what Putin wants most of all.
Our president can be abrupt and politically incorrect, he was the best choice vs Hillary. Candidly, enough people had enough of the "promise everything do nothing 2 terms of Obama". The Oblamer and Chief has a radical view of how to fundamentally change the country. From releasing 911 detainees to the "apology tour around the world" (that made the USA look weak) to the drawing the "red line" (with Syria on Chemical weapons) that he had no intention or conviction of honoring. The Iran Nuke deal was the worst of all. No agreement to inspect, delivery of more than a billion in cash by military cargo planes, The American people had enough of it. There are still pieces of his system lingering that will eventually get dismantled. The biggest issue to fix is our Healthcare system.

A Total mess and a huge burden on the middle class. Personal health care experience, You go to an exchange get a primary doctor (discover that the doctor isn't taking any more patients) you're exchange can't help find you another primary doctor. The premiums are so high that you can only afford a policy with high deductibles. You don't go to the doctor for preventative medicine and you are worse off. Your other choice was being forced to pay not to use the health care system and that's big government socialism.

One of the architects of President Obama’s Affordable Care Act (Jonathan Gruber) appeared on CNN in October 2016 and claimed the system is “working as designed” — it just needs to punish people more with higher taxes who don't pay the penalty. In another CNN article He also said "The American voter is stupid". Let's first look at what Gruber actually said: He was defending the fact that the law was written behind closed doors and he said Democrats intentionally made the law confusing to mask the fact that the law instituted a new tax to pay for health reform. Why'd the Democrats do this? Voters don't like new taxes. Gruber said it was more important to get health reform than to be up front.

Sounds like a radical unilateral view about how to fundamentally change the health care of this country. Keep obstructing the remake of healthcare and we will see another 4 years of Trump while he fixes it. Thinking further we will see another 4 years of Trump regardless. He's making America Great again.
 

4rkidz

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I am just going to ignore that poster like the rest of you, I feel sorry for people who put their wallet above the welfare of their fellow man. Shame really that Trump has created such divisiveness amongst so many people. In fact I can't think of anyone in recent history that hasn't been invited or allowed to funerals/weddings by his peers. The previous Presidents are cordial and respectful with one another and do many things together for charity as they have the maturity to realize that underneath the politics we are all the same. But Trump isn't like that, he is a classic narcissist and I say with confidence as someone whose profession is working with his ilk. I think ignoring and not fueling the fire is the best approach with posters like that who are so blindly following the Trumps or Hitlers of the world for their own financial gain.
 

ballettmaus

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:lol:

Yes but let's thank pairskaterwhatever for playing foil to allow many liberals to sharpen their arguments and be better prepared to engage Trumpists out in the real world.
The poster is the reason why I tend to avoid engaging Trumpists - facts are not getting one anywhere, so what is the point really?
 

Aussie Willy

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If they have any interest in anti-Trump Republican leadership, Republican voters would need to start by voting out those who support and enable Trump. For the most part, they haven't done that (this was an issue for the primary season, not so much Tuesday night). Instead, many anti-Trump Republican politicians (e.g., Cruz) have moved towards Trump in order to secure support from Republican voters. To me, it seems that the vast majority of Republican voters want the Republican party to be the party of Trump.

I do tend to agree about Romney though.
Well part of Trump's press conference was to gloat over the Republicans who lost their seat on the back of not being totally on board with Trump. So to Trump if you don't support him "YOU ARE A LOSER!"
 

BlueRidge

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The poster is the reason why I tend to avoid engaging Trumpists - facts are not getting one anywhere, so what is the point really?
Its actually fairly well established in the research that recitation of facts does not convince anyone who has a strong opinion to change it.

Obviously people do change their views, but its a complex process. Rational argument giving factual assertions don't accomplish it in and of themselves.
 

ballettmaus

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Its actually fairly well established in the research that recitation of facts does not convince anyone who has a strong opinion to change it.

Obviously people do change their views, but its a complex process. Rational argument giving factual assertions don't accomplish it in and of themselves.
I didn't know that. That's interesting. And sad, in a way.
I understand why one would be hard pressed to change their view based on facts that are repeated to them but when you're given hard evidence like links from several sources to go with that... I really don't understand how one can just ignore them.
 

jeffisjeff

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The Oblamer and Chief has a radical view of how to fundamentally change the country...
How about trying a bit of self-reflection?

Please don't be so mean. ... You also diminish your credibility when you act like that.
"There you go again" being mean and reactionary.
There you go again getting nasty
Wow I hope you find relief from all that hate.
Wow more hate than I even expected. I'm going to pray that you get better.
 

BlueRidge

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I didn't know that. That's interesting. And sad, in a way.
I understand why one would be hard pressed to change their view based on facts that are repeated to them but when you're given hard evidence like links from several sources to go with that... I really don't understand how one can just ignore them.
Its actually been shown that people who have strong views, when presented with conflicting facts, will double down on their beliefs rather than revise them.

I think it is because strong views become a part of who one is and changing that is a challenge to one's own view of oneself.

Nonetheless people do change their views. It takes time though.
 

ballettmaus

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Its actually been shown that people who have strong views, when presented with conflicting facts, will double down on their beliefs rather than revise them.

I think it is because strong views become a part of who one is and changing that is a challenge to one's own view of oneself.

Nonetheless people do change their views. It takes time though.
Unless, it would seem, it's something someone wants to believe to begin with. Propaganda works quickly. Propaganda also tells the people what they want to hear and it makes them willing to ignore facts. Even if they see it with their own eyes and experience it themselves. (E.g. the soybean farmers, the crab fishers, the small business owners that need to important steel.)
 

BlueRidge

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Unless, it would seem, it's something someone wants to believe to begin with. Propaganda works quickly. Propaganda also tells the people what they want to hear and it makes them willing to ignore facts. Even if they see it with their own eyes and experience it themselves. (E.g. the soybean farmers, the crab fishers, the small business owners that need to important steel.)
The propaganda works because it reinforces what they want to believe. Then the problem of facts vs. entrenched beliefs is the problem after that.
 

Aussie Willy

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Its actually fairly well established in the research that recitation of facts does not convince anyone who has a strong opinion to change it.

Obviously people do change their views, but its a complex process. Rational argument giving factual assertions don't accomplish it in and of themselves.
Absolutely. It is like conspiracy theorists. Doesn't matter what facts you present to them, they will always throw it back at you. And then if you don't have evidence, they use that as justification to prove their theory because you can't show them facts. Just have a look at Sandy Hook and they way people who say it didn't happen behave. You can never win the argument because they just refuse to listen.
 

overedge

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Absolutely. It is like conspiracy theorists. Doesn't matter what facts you present to them, they will always throw it back at you. And then if you don't have evidence, they use that as justification to prove their theory because you can't show them facts. Just have a look at Sandy Hook and they way people who say it didn't happen behave. You can never win the argument because they just refuse to listen.
If you present the facts, then you're just part of the cover-up :rolleyes:
 

Aussie Willy

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Sounds like a radical unilateral view about how to fundamentally change the health care of this country. Keep obstructing the remake of healthcare and we will see another 4 years of Trump while he fixes it. Thinking further we will see another 4 years of Trump regardless. He's making America Great again.
Really??? You will never have an effective health care system in the US because one side thinks universal health care is akin to communism and it is too beholden to the insurance companies and pharmaceutical manufacturers. There is too much money tied up in self-interests to do anything that might actually benefit the people.

If Trump was really concerned about healthcare, he would have worked with all parties in a conciliatory fashion to come up with a solution. But instead his approach has always been combative and antagonistic. He has no desire to work with people, nor I doubt he has the skill or knowledge to do it. It is all about showing how "GREAT" he is and having his ego pandered towards.

But I assume you will blame the Democrats and a couple of Republican members for why the alternative never got through, even though it was universally thought to be a bad idea and was going to impact on many people and make them worse off.
 

overedge

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That is a cut and paste job, if I ever saw one.
Actually, yes, parts of it are. Well spotted!

@PairSkater12345 "Let's first look at what Gruber actually said: He was defending the fact that the law was written behind closed doors and he said Democrats intentionally made the law confusing to mask the fact that the law instituted a new tax to pay for health reform. Why'd the Democrats do this? Voters don't like new taxes. Gruber said it was more important to get health reform than to be up front."

Jeremy Diamond on CNN website in November 2014: "Let's first look at what Gruber actually said: He was defending the fact that the law was written behind closed doors and he said Democrats intentionally made the law confusing to mask the fact that the law instituted a new tax to pay for health reform. Why'd the Democrats do this? Voters don't like new taxes. Gruber said it was more important to get health reform than to be up front."
http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/14/politics/obamacare-voters-stupid-explainer/index.html

I guess plagiarism is one of those "traditional values".
 
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That is a cut and paste job, if I ever saw one.
Actually the cut and paste part is just about 1/3 of par
That is a cut and paste job, if I ever saw one.
Only about 1/3 of the information in the third paragraph is cut and paste. I quoted a CNN article as he was interviewed.
I was excited to find this article as it gave us a glimpse of the 2016 when CNN wasn't the mouth piece of the left and far left. Thanks for the complement thought.
 

babayaga

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Actually, yes, parts of it are. Well spotted!

@PairSkater12345 "Let's first look at what Gruber actually said: He was defending the fact that the law was written behind closed doors and he said Democrats intentionally made the law confusing to mask the fact that the law instituted a new tax to pay for health reform. Why'd the Democrats do this? Voters don't like new taxes. Gruber said it was more important to get health reform than to be up front."

Jeremy Diamond on CNN website in November 2014: "Let's first look at what Gruber actually said: He was defending the fact that the law was written behind closed doors and he said Democrats intentionally made the law confusing to mask the fact that the law instituted a new tax to pay for health reform. Why'd the Democrats do this? Voters don't like new taxes. Gruber said it was more important to get health reform than to be up front."
http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/14/politics/obamacare-voters-stupid-explainer/index.html

I guess plagiarism is one of those "traditional values".
This is amazing. I feel taking the rest of this posters messages through a plagiarism checker. :) I don't know if it is appropriate to express such suspicions, but I highly doubt this person is a sincere Trump supporter. It smells like a paid job type of interaction.
 

snoopy

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Actually the cut and paste part is just about 1/3 of par


Only about 1/3 of the information in the third paragraph is cut and paste. I quoted a CNN article as he was interviewed.
I was excited to find this article as it gave us a glimpse of the 2016 when CNN wasn't the mouth piece of the left and far left. Thanks for the complement thought.
No you didn't quote CNN. You plagiarized them.
 

snoopy

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This is amazing. I feel taking the rest of this posters messages through a plagiarism checker. :) I don't know if it is appropriate to express such suspicions, but I highly doubt this person is a sincere Trump supporter. It smells like a paid job type of interaction.
You mean a Russian troll? No, I think he is or was involved in US pair skating.
 

overedge

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Only about 1/3 of the information in the third paragraph is cut and paste. I quoted a CNN article as he was interviewed.
I was excited to find this article as it gave us a glimpse of the 2016 when CNN wasn't the mouth piece of the left and far left.
Nice try, but you're still busted, plagiarist. And going back and changing the wording in your post doesn't change what you did.

It doesn't matter how much is cut and paste. The point is that you took material from another source and didn't credit that source, and presented that material as your own words.
 

Aussie Willy

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This is amazing. I feel taking the rest of this posters messages through a plagiarism checker. :) I don't know if it is appropriate to express such suspicions, but I highly doubt this person is a sincere Trump supporter. It smells like a paid job type of interaction.
They have just been sent to keep us all highly amused and to distract us from the skating season.
 
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Actually, yes, parts of it are. Well spotted!

@PairSkater12345 "Let's first look at what Gruber actually said: He was defending the fact that the law was written behind closed doors and he said Democrats intentionally made the law confusing to mask the fact that the law instituted a new tax to pay for health reform. Why'd the Democrats do this? Voters don't like new taxes. Gruber said it was more important to get health reform than to be up front."

Jeremy Diamond on CNN website in November 2014: "Let's first look at what Gruber actually said: He was defending the fact that the law was written behind closed doors and he said Democrats intentionally made the law confusing to mask the fact that the law instituted a new tax to pay for health reform. Why'd the Democrats do this? Voters don't like new taxes. Gruber said it was more important to get health reform than to be up front."
http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/14/politics/obamacare-voters-stupid-explainer/index.html

I guess plagiarism is one of those "traditional values".
It's interesting how the third paragraph is the focus of the criticism. I did the cut and past to illustrate what CNN said back in 2016. Funny how the fact that CNN wrote this get's ignored. Non of the other paragraphs are cut and paste. You didn't mention those.
 

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